Ultralight Rifle

[Michael Crosby]

I use this when supplementing a dwindling food supply. Not guaranteed, but quiet and usually effective. Using your brain and making what you need on site is very UL.
Mike

[David Olsen]

"Without handling the weapon myself, I'll hold judgement on it. It's interesting on the weight front, but there are certainly other options. That said, for plinking at squirrels, I personally prefer a rifle's accuracy to a pistol, thus making this an interesting prospect."

My thoughts too. Longer sight radius.

A rifle is also preferable to a handgun when it comes to the maze of concealed weapons rules in some states, as well as a slight safety advantage in maintaining
the barrel pointing in a safe direction when in use.

[Brad Groves]

I was just cruising around the pakrifle website from the OP. Turns out, this rifle seems to be the work of Josh Leavitt (formerly of Ti Goat). Cool!

Also some good pics; no, no rifle-waving fishing rod… it is a break-apart, after all.

[Daniel Fosse]

"Y'all didn't think about zombies did you? You never know"

While guns are awesome, they are a bad defensive weapon choice for the inevitable zombie invasion. The zombies will be many, while your ammo is finite. A sturdy bludgeoning weapon is your best bet. Max Brooks, in the Zombie Survival Guide, suggests a crowbar but these weigh several pounds and are no good for UL backpacking. You have to destroy the zombie brain to stop them. Perhaps a well placed jab of a hiking pole to the eye socket would do the trick. This would ad yet another use for hiking poles.

[Troy Ammons]

>Wouldn't be much good for a boar though.

My cousin goes into the brush and hunts hogs with a 22LR and no backup. Kills quite a few. Very good shot though and shoots them in the head.
Personally I think he is nuts. I carry a 44 magnum when I go hog hunting deep woods. Heard too many stories.

If you practice enough with a pistol like a buckmark its just as accurate as a rifle. I guess the real downside is the concealed weapons laws.

After that the papoose is about as good as it gets for a pack 22LR rifle, although it needs to be a bit lighter.

[W I S N E R !]

It looks like a cool small game gun, well suited for rabbit hunting/packing trips. I'm not much into the fishing rod combo though- Most of my small game hunting is in the desert so a rod is a bit pointless…
Personally, spending that much $$$ on a single shot .22LR is not worth it to save a little weight. A Ruger 10/22 comes in at about 6 lbs- reasonable enough for me if everything else I'm carrying is light. Having something that can be taken down and packed small is a definite plus though. Ryan's review was interesting.

As for hunting wild hogs with a .22LR, wouldn't it be an illegal caliber for an animal that size? I don't know about your state….

[Aaron Lastname]

A lot of times you can just carry openly no problem in places where concealment laws might be an issue.

[Troy Ammons]

As for hunting wild hogs with a .22LR, wouldn't it be an illegal caliber for an animal that size? I don't know about your state….

Yes, illegal but I dont think he even cares. He has lived in that area for about 70 years. They are a serious pest around there anyway, so I doubt the game warden would even say anything.

[Sanad Toukhly]

David,

you make a good point, concealed weapons permits are different in every state. I have one for the state of Florida. I'm pretty sure you're only allowed to carry concealed in the state you got your permit from, if I remember correctly.

As far as your concern with the carbon fiber parts of this rifle… they shouldn't be a problem. Usually, the lighter the barrel, the more recoil you will feel. However, this is a .22 were talking about, so you will probably hardly notice the extra recoil.

As I stated already, every suggested alternative to this rifle that I've heard so far does not come close to the weight of this gun. I would much rather have this 1 lb rifle than a 1.5 lb handgun that requires you to be a pretty darn good shooter to get the same range and accuracy you would get with this rifle. The lightest .22 Rifles out there are still more than twice the weight of this one.

I am definitely going to be trying this rifle out in the future.

-Sid

[Lynn Tramper]

"As for hunting wild hogs with a .22LR, wouldn't it be an illegal caliber for an animal that size? "

Wild pigs are considered a pest in NZ, to be killed by any means possible, any time of year (same for dear, etc…). Of course, a good and honorable pig hunter will use a pack of dogs and a knife rather than a rifle.

[David Ure]

I would never shoot my dear (usually it is the other way around).

[W I S N E R !]

Holy Bejeezus Lynn! A pack of dogs and a knife is good and honorable?! What's the knife for after a pack of dogs have had their way with it?

For some twisted reason I just have to laugh when I think about it….
Me, knife in hand, my pack of dogs caged in the truck…opening the gates and yelling "LOOSE THE HOUNDS!!!"

To each their own I suppose! :)

[Ali e]

Go Lynn, thats how we used to hunt them in Hawaii minus the dogs. Now the only thing I kill is time. Ali

[Lynn Tramper]

Craig, I was being facetious about it being good and honorable. What it IS, is macho and inhumane. The dogs track down and corner the pig, often at great peril to the dogs, then the 'hunter' comes along and puts a knife through the pigs neck. I don't know why it's still allowed, but it's disappointingly common practice amongst pig hunters here :(

From an NZ hunting site:

"The hunter usually jumps onto the pig, which is held by dogs, and kills it by sticking a knife into its neck. Some hunters use guns to dispatch their prey: wielding a knife and diving into the frenzy of biting dogs and pig’s tusks is a risky business.

For large pigs hunters must use a large-calibre rifle such as a .303, as .22 bullets are not powerful enough to kill large boars outright, and no hunter wants to be faced with a wounded boar.

Dogs are often used to bail up the quarry. They scent the pig and race after it, with the hunter or hunters quickly following. Not only can dogs find pigs, but they can also chase them out from under tight scrub and places inaccessible to hunters.

Pig dogs, of many different breeds, are expected to do three things: find, bail and hold. Some dogs can do all three, but more often hunters use four or five dogs, with different roles:
The finding dog locates the pig.
The bailing dog keeps the quarry in place by barking at it. This one is usually smaller, and must be agile enough to avoid any sweeping tusks.
The holding dogs, which are larger, grab hold of the pig’s ears, tail and testic1es – anything they can bite – until the hunter arrives.

Dogs are sometimes trained for particular roles.
Dogs are often hurt by pigs’ tusks, and sometimes die of the injuries. There is also at least one story of a hunter being killed, and others have been badly injured by the tusks of angry boars."

[Troy Ammons]

I use either a 308 or a 338/284 loaded with barnes bullets for hogs with a 44 magunm handgun for a backup.

[Dewey Riesterer]

I find the comments on individuals living totally alone in remote areas for …3 months… both pertinent and interesting; I have done this in some of BC's and Alberta's most isolated regions from 1965 to 1993…and just this past week discussed doing so again, with a BC Forest Service staffer…but, my wife is somewhat "less" enthusiastic….

The fact is that many, probably most contemporary humans in our urbanized and "wired" world are NOT psychologically suited to this type of lifestyle and those who consider it an "adventure", simply do not know whereof they speak. I have known many old-timers here who would spend the 6-7 month brutal winters totally alone in very remote areas, trapping and also many "Lookoutmen" who would do what I did, in the days when Coleman lanterns, sheepherder stoves, cutting and backpacking your own wood with axe and crosscut saw and backpacking literally tons of supplies and water to your L/O on a "Trapper Nelson #3" was how the job got done.

I have assisted with sudden mental breakdowns on quiet Sundays, when, it seems to happen most often and with other such problems and I can very easily sympathize with anyone who attempts this and suffers emotional trauma as a result. Living totally alone for three months in remote areas where you get one heli-supply trip during that time is NOT "easy" and while it CAN be VERY rewarding, it is not for everyone or even most people.

Those who think that a gun such as this would be useful in a true survival situation so that one could feast on various small animals shot with an unerring eye and lethal precision, simply do not know anything about the "north", where, most of the year, the landscape is EMPTY and even edible herbaceous growth is rare. If, I DID find a Moose, I could kill it with this gun and, again, this is from actual experience, BUT, given that far more efficient and versatile guns are available, this is not a very sound choice, IMHO.

I think that ANY item one backpacks, especially within the context of UL backpacking must have a very high level of efficiency per oz. of weight and I don't see that here. You CAN obtain a rifle in .308Win. weighing 4-5 lbs., scoped and using various ammo. combos be well equipped for about anything in the remaining North American wilderness…and, from what I have seen, this would be a much more efficient way to go.

[Anonymous]

"You CAN obtain a rifle in .308Win. weighing 4-5 lbs.,"

Hoooeee! I'll bet that one would kick like a mule. :)

[Hendrik Morkel]

We say on other forums "Don't feed the Trolls".

Regarding the Zombies, I think an axe with a long handle might as well do the job. The advantage here is that you also can use it for chopping wood.

Re: Pakrifle, I think it is an interesting option for those who would use something like it. As Ryan wrote on his blog, together with the tenkara fishing rod you would have the possibility to hunt and fish for under 2 pound, that's quite impressive. As its not available outside of the USA its not interesting for me, though.

I personally don't have a gun or hunting license, but still would realize that the Pakrifle is made for small game hunting – and not for self defense against bears and the like. If you intend it for self defense, maybe you should first try to activate & use your brain.

[Luke Schmidt]

I've heard of some guys who hike out into the backcountry with a light pack and spend several days looking for Elk. My guess is that a lot better way to see something than hunting near roads like I've seen other people do. Theres a major downside of course, what happens whan you drop and 800 pound bull elk? The hike out with the meat will not be ultralight regardless of how light your rifle is.
Yes Tom an ultralight .308 would kick like a mule probably it would be roughly equivelent to a traditonal weigh .300 Magnum.

[Don Selesky]

"the Pakrifle is made for small game hunting – and not for self defense against bears and the like"

I'm reminded of the comment from Blazing Saddles – "never shoot Mongo, it just makes him angry."

Anyone trying to use this thing for defense against large creatures has a poor perception about stopping power. :-)

[Dewey Riesterer]

Funny you should mention that as I recently returned from the Kootenays of BC, where it was HOT and we finally gave up with two more available days to hunt as we knew that we could not pack out a bull before the meat "turned" and I will not kill anything I am not going to eat, period.

I learned early in my bush career to shoot game CLOSE to where we could get horses or a 4×4 and even then, you sometimes lose a few lbs. in transit. So, I have passed on both Moose and Elk bulls that made my mouth water, but, hunting, like backpacking is supposed to be a "sport", not just about racking up the largest number of kills to impress your buddies with.

On the U/L .308 issue, the specific rifle I had in mind was the "Kifaru Rambling Rifle", not currently in production and quite costly, BUT, a REAL tool for the serious wilderness person who likes to go into truly wild and remote areas and wants to be armed when doing so…a wise practice, IME.

The stock design and other aspects of these greatly reduces the felt recoil and other such U/L rigs can also be designed to reduce or eliminate recoil discomfort. I usually hunt with light .338WM. 9.3×62 and even a custom light .375H&H and have no problem with the "kick"

I do this because we have had two Grizzly attacks last month here in B.C., one just north of where we were in NW BC on the first day we were in the bush and the other very close to my home town in the same area where I had my first Grizzly encounter in April, 1956. The latter resulted in a guy's beloved "bone digger" being killed by the bear and these attacks are so commonplace here now that most of them are never reported in the media.

Sooo, I consider a concern for an effective self-defence weapon in such circumstances to be a fundamental aspect of backpacking here, however, cisrcumstances differ and the European and Antipodean members have different needs than exist here.

[Steven Inge]

Dewey, we get it. Everything you know is from actual extensive experience.

After careful calculation I have decided you are at least 219 years old.

[Dewey Riesterer]

I would suggest, that you at least TRY to grow up and post something relevant to the issue. You could also use some "remedial" assistance with your arithmetic skills.

[John S.]

Infants should never carry guns into the backcountry. I think we can agree on that ; P

[David Olsen]

Well, at least these threads give me some chuckles.

Maybe we should start one on the current Supreme Court case
where they are considering incorporation for more of the
bill of rights.

IE. Is the Chicago gun ban unconstitutional and
do you have a right to a jury trail for a speeding
ticket?

How's that for trolling obtusely?

[Author]

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