UL hommock camping

Thanks Vick,
the hammock I have been modifying is still larger than I think it needs to be, even when sleeping diagonal, but I will leave it the width it is.

I took off the attached stuff sack, and I am now using an OR helium stuff sack, now, including the stuff sack, the hammock weighs 9.9oz, that is almost half of the origionl weight of 18.8oz, I will probably stop modifying, but replace with a nano stuff when they are available. my next project is a silk hammock.

I spent the last two nights outside in my hammock, with temps down to 15F the first night and below 10F the second night. Here’s the gear:

Hennessy Hammock Ultralight Explorer (34.6 oz)
Hennessy Hammock OverCover (4.5 oz)
Jacks R Better Nest down under quilt (20.2 oz)
Jacks R Better Weather Shield bottom cover (9.5 oz)
Jacks R Better Suspension System (2.0 oz)
Ray-Way 1-Person Deluxe Quilt with Extra Layer 3D (36.9 oz)
Stansport Emergency (“space”) Blanket (optional) (2.1 oz)
GossamerGear ThinLight 1/8″ pad (optional) (2.5 oz)
BMW TorsoLite pad (optional) (10.2 oz)
FlexAir pillow (small) (0.7 oz)

WalMart compression tee (like Underarmor) (XL: 4.8 oz)
Patagonia R.5 long-sleeve zip-T (XL: 11.4 oz)
Patagonia Micropuff pull-over (XL: 13.2 oz)
Patagonia Capilene lightweight briefs (L: 1.8 oz)
Duofold long underwear (L: 5.4 oz)
BMW Cocoon pants (XL: 8.2 oz)
polypro balaclava (L: 1.2 oz)
Ray-Way Bomber Hat (L: 1.0 oz)
BPL PossumDown socks (XL: 1.9 oz)
Eddie Bauer down booties (XL: 3.1 oz) or Halflinger felted wool slippers (size 12: 14.2 oz)
REI Performance liner gloves (L: 1.3 oz)

The first night I put the space blanket over the Nest, and I had the ThinLight pad in the hammock with me in case I needed more insulation. I slept warmly until 5am, when a chill down my back woke me up and kept me from going back to sleep. I put the ThinLight pad underneath me and slept soundly until 7am. However, it’s hard to move around with a pad underneath, so I didn’t position myself properly in the hammock. From 5am to 7am my left heel pressed against an uncovered part of the hammock and compressed the sock, bootie and quilt. When I got up at 7am I had symptoms of frostbite in my heel. There was a 10-15mph breeze during the night, and no condensation on the inside of the hammock.

During the day, I had my wife check the fit of the undercover while I was in the hammock, and it turned out there was about a 6″ gap between the hammock and the under quilt (which explains my cold back!). She removed the space blanket and properly adjusted the Nest and Weather Shield for me.

The second night I wanted to be sure that I didn’t get frostbite, so I switched from down booties to felted wool slippers, which don’t compress (too heavy to carry, though). This night I had the TorsoLite pad in the hammock with me in case I needed more insulation. I slept warmly until I woke at 5am. Although I was still warm enough at this point, I decided to put the TorsoLite pad underneath me to see how much difference it made. I slept comfortably until 7am and awoke with warm feet. There was a 5mph breeze during the night, and a very thin layer of frozen condensation rimed the inside of the hammock. My sports drink, suspended about 12″ above my face, was frozen solid by 5am.

This is the first time I’ve used an under quilt with the hammock. On previous outings I’ve used nothing (a big mistake at 27F) and combinations of a space blanket, Coleman 3/8″ closed-cell foam pad, GossamerGear ThinLight 1/8″ pad and Therm-A-Rest Z-Rest torso-length pad at temperatures between 35-50F. The under quilt is certainly much easier to use; I’ve twice flipped the hammock over completely while trying to reposition pads, and it is a credit to Hennessy’s construction quality that I didn’t tear through the netting. None of my previous pad arrangements felt warm enough at near-freezing temperatures, so the Jacks R Better Nest is clearly a better cold-weather solution. The ThinLight pad is quite warm (I’m hoping that GossamerGear will offer an over-sized 3/8″ ThinLight pad) and the TorsoLite was easy to slip onto during the night, so I think it should be possible to use these to extend this sleeping system to even lower temperatures. I would likely carry both of these pads on a winter trip in case I choose to ‘go to ground’ or build a snow cave.

The space blanket wasn’t necessary, although I would probably carry it on a winter trip. I’m still not sure how much benefit it offers, either as a vapor barrier to protect the down under quilt or as a radiant heat reflector. It is thin and flexible so it probably doesn’t cause much compression of the Nest under quilt or prevent it from closely hugging the hammock. I’m not sure how much the Weather Shield affected the performance of the under-layer since I haven’t yet used the Nest without it. I plan to try the Weather Shield with just the ThinLight pad inside during warmer weather.

I’m glad I had the Hennessy Over Cover. I don’t think it was very humid inside the hammock with it in place, as there was no or very little condensation. It did raise the inside temperature, as I have previously experienced the pleasure of a sub-freezing breeze blowing under the fly and through the netting, and I didn’t miss that a bit. I have a Hennessy SuperShelter on order and I hope to test that soon.

The Ray-Way quilt worked great. It’s a pain getting into and out of a sleeping bag in a hammock; I much prefer the quilt. My top-side stayed warm all night and I haven’t yet found its low temperature limit (it’s killer hot at 50F). Likewise, the Ray-Way Bomber Hat kept me warm when my REI Squall hat (300-weight fleece and nylon flap cap) wasn’t cutting it. Both the quilt and hat are insulated with Polarguard 3D.

This was a first test for my new MicroPuff and Cocoon insulating layer and they kept me warm both outside and in the hammock. These three layers of clothing, with the addition of a shell layer, would be the clothing carried for winter day use so there is no extra weight penalty.

Great post! Thanks for typing all of that!

Could you post the loft of the various pieces of insulation. I’m in the middle of designing my sleep system and will be making a lot of the pieces. I’m having trouble settling on the loft for each of the components. Your info will help a lot!

-jamie

> Could you post the loft of the various pieces of insulation.

As best I can measure, the loft is:

Jacks R Better Nest down under quilt (2.5″)
Ray-Way 1-Person Deluxe Quilt with Extra Layer 3D (2.5″)

Patagonia Micropuff pull-over (0.5″)
BMW Cocoon pants (1.0″) (wow!)
Ray-Way Bomber Hat (0.75″)
BPL PossumDown socks (0.25″)
Eddie Bauer down booties (0.5″)

I edited my previous message to include size, since some of these items may appear to weigh a bit more than the manufacturer’s claims, which are usually for smaller sizes than mine.

That info is perfect! I have been trying to decide how thick to make my quilt and underquilt. Sounds like 2.5″ plus modest clothes will work fine for above 20F degrees.

By the way, thanks for mentioning that the quilt is “killer hot” at 50F. I’m trying to find that sweet spot for my quilt that will be warm, yet usuable for most of three seasons. I think I’m leaning toward 2″ loft for the quilt. I can wear clothes as needed, including a go-lite down jacket and down pants (as soon as I make those!).

I’ll probably make my underquilt a full 2.5″ since that is less likely to overheat me. (And I can let it hang further away from the bottom if absolutely needed.)

Thanks again!

Just off hand… The loft/weight on the Ray Way quilt is interesting… I expected more loft. (I think at about 24 ounces you could get 3+” of down loft in a quilt.) Has it lost any loft over the time you owned it?

In any case, sounds like a very comfortable set up!

-jamie

> The loft/weight on the Ray Way quilt is interesting… I expected more loft. (I think at about 24 ounces you could get 3+” of down loft in a quilt.) Has it lost any loft over the time you owned it?

You probably would get close to 3″ of loft for 24 oz. in a down quilt (as in the Jacks R Better Old Rag Mtn). My Ray-Way quilt has about the same surface area as the Nest, but is made with three layers of 0.75″ Polarguard 3D. It doesn’t appear to have lost any loft. I wanted to make my own, but I’m not going to mess with down!

I’m thinking of making another Ray-Way quilt with two layers of 0.75″ Polarguard 3D for summer use. I think that would be sufficient for temps down to the mid-30’s.

>In any case, sounds like a very comfortable set up!

It is. The sleep system weighs almost 7 pounds, but the hammock sure is comfortable and versatile.

Another cold night out in the hammock, this time at -2F. The rest of my Hennessy SuperShelter arrived, so I combined that with the JRB Nest under quilt, since the temperature was well below what I thought the SuperShelter could handle on its own.

I slept warm all night long.

Here is the gear list. It’s close to what I used last time, but I thought it would be simpler to post a complete list rather than a bunch of additions and subtractions.

Hennessy Hammock Ultralight Explorer (34.6 oz)
Hennessy Hammock OverCover (4.5 oz)
Hennessy Hammock UnderCover (9.8 oz)
Hennessy Hammock UnderPad (10.7 oz)
Jacks R Better Nest down under quilt (20.2 oz)
Jacks R Better Suspension System (2.0 oz)
Ray-Way 1-Person Deluxe Quilt with Extra Layer 3D (36.9 oz)
FlexAir pillow (small: 0.7 oz)

WalMart compression tee (like Underarmor) (XL: 4.8 oz)
Patagonia Capilene expedition-weight long-sleeve zip (XL: 10.8 oz)
Patagonia Micropuff pull-over (XL: 13.2 oz)
Patagonia Capilene lightweight briefs (L: 1.8 oz)
Duofold long underwear (L: 5.4 oz)
BMW Cocoon pants (XL: 8.2 oz)
polypro balaclava (L: 1.2 oz)
Novara Thermal Tech Skullcap (1.1 oz)
Ray-Way Bomber Hat (L: 1.0 oz)

BPL PossumDown socks (XL: 1.9 oz)
Eddie Bauer down booties (XL: 3.1 oz)
Seirus Super Liner gloves (S/M: 1.1 oz)

This night was about ten degrees (F) cooler than the previous test, so for clothing I switched to a slightly loftier fleece shirt (which I’ve used, along with the compression tee, for snowshoeing in windy -5F conditions) and added a skullcap.

I wasn’t able to check how closely the HH UnderCover fit with somebody in the hammock, but I think it was fairly close with both the JRB Nest and HH UnderPad inside. It’s possible the JRB Nest was a bit compressed. I put the JRB Nest next to the hammock, followed by the HH UnderPad (3/4″ open-cell foam dimple-cut on one side to 1/4″), then the HH UnderCover. Since the hammock was fairly well enclosed, I had some condensation frosting the mesh in the morning. Not very much; I knocked off what I could and collected maybe a tablespoon of water when melted. There was also moisture between the UnderPad and the UnderCover. It’s possible this moisture fell off the fly during the night and collected in the UnderCover, but I think it’s more likely, since the UnderCover is made of silnylon, that it condensed during the night because the moisture couldn’t escape. I didn’t notice any condensation between the JRB Nest and the JRB Weather Shield bottom in the previous tests, probably because the Weather Shield material is breathable. There wasn’t a whole lot of moisture collected inside the UnderCover, but I’ll probably continue to position the UnderPad outside the JRB Nest so the condensation doesn’t collect in the down (the JRB Nest and the hammock-side of the UnderPad both felt dry).

The sleep system weight is 119 oz, or almost 7 1/2 pounds. I’d trust this setup to go another ten degrees (F) colder without change. If I have to make changes to handle even colder weather, I’ll add another HH UnderPad on top of the JRB Nest (or replace the JRB Nest with the thicker JRB “Old Rag Mtn” down quilt) and maybe add a JRB Weather Shield top cover over the Ray-Way quilt.

Douglas,
“I wanted to make my own, but I’m not going to mess with down! “
Do it, man. Check the Thruhiker site for easy to follow directions. It might take a little longer to make a down shell with baffels, but not that much longer compared to the time to point-quilt a poly quilt.

Douglas,
Thanks for the great information! I have a Hennessy Hammock as well, but have not used it in cold weather yet, though I plan to. I have 2 Jacks R Better No Snivler quilts and a Western Mountaineering Versalite bag. My plan for the cold was to use the two quilts under the hammock and the bag inside and pull the tarp down tight.

I can see the theoretical benefits of the OverCover and UnderCover, but wonder if your practical experience showed that they were worth the weight and cost. Couldn’t you have put the UnderPad between the hammock and the Nest and saved the weight of the UnderCover? If you pulled the tarp down tight against the hammock wouldn’t that do what the OverCover does? Do the JRB Shield and the UnderCover do roughly the same thing? If you had to choose one would it be the Undercover for its added protection, or the Shield for its cost and weight? Is the JRB Suspension System necessary when you are using the UnderCover? And finally, is the UnderPad large enough? I am 6 foot 4, 210 pounds, and usually sleep on my side.

Sorry for the rapid fire questions :) Looking back over my post it seems I am looking for a review of the SuperShelter.

Douglas,
Thanks for the great information! I have a Hennessy Hammock as well, but have not used it in cold weather yet, though I plan to. I have 2 Jacks R Better No Snivler quilts and a Western Mountaineering Versalite bag. My plan for the cold was to use the two quilts under the hammock and the bag inside and pull the tarp down tight.

I can see the theoretical benefits of the OverCover and UnderCover, but wonder if your practical experience showed that they were worth the weight and cost. Couldn’t you have put the UnderPad between the hammock and the Nest and saved the weight of the UnderCover? If you pulled the tarp down tight against the hammock wouldn’t that do what the OverCover does? Do the JRB Shield and the UnderCover do roughly the same thing? If you had to choose one would it be the Undercover for its added protection, or the Shield for its cost and weight? Is the JRB Suspension System necessary when you are using the UnderCover? And finally, is the UnderPad large enough? I am 6 foot 4, 210 pounds, and usually sleep on my side.

Sorry for the rapid fire questions :). I reposted this to get your attention. I am guessing you missed it the first time as it happen over a weekend.

> Couldn’t you have put the UnderPad between the hammock and the Nest and saved the weight of the UnderCover?

Yes, and also possibly the Nest between the hammock and the UnderPad, since the UnderPad has its own tensioning cords. Next time I set it up I will test whether either or both of these configurations stay sufficiently close to the hammock bottom. The Underpad is 4″ shorter than the Nest and 11″ narrower at the middle. The ends are tapered, more so at the foot than the shoulders, but probably no more tapered than the Nest with its cords pulled.

My reason for using the UnderCover is to protect the Nest/UnderPad from exposure to precipitation. The UnderPad, although it is open-cell foam, doesn’t appear to be very absorbent (the condensation that I found on it just beaded up) so perhaps it might be sufficiently weatherproof on its own. The Nest has DWR treatment, but I’m hesitant to expose a down quilt to blowing snow or rain even if it isn’t critical-path for survival (if it got soaked I could go to ground, assuming I was also carrying a groundsheet and winter pads).

I do not know how much warmth is held in by the UnderCover, although I suspect it is probably in the 5-10F range usually claimed for bivies.

> If you pulled the tarp down tight against the hammock wouldn’t that do what the OverCover does?

Mostly. I have staked the tarp down tight against the hammock in 25-30F weather (when I had nothing more than the hammock and a down sleeping bag–brrr!) and it did make it warmer inside (compared to the first night, when I staked the tarp out wide) with some condensation (frost) on the tarp in the morning. It didn’t work nearly as well when there was a wind: during the night a breeze came through several times which rattled the tarp, dropped condensation on me, and let out a lot of warmth. Similar breezes came through when I was using the OverCover and those problems didn’t occur. The OverCover is breathable nylon, so it lets the moisture out.

> Do the JRB Shield and the UnderCover do roughly the same thing?

Yes. The Weather Shield is about the same size as the Nest, so it doesn’t cover the entire hammock bottom. The UnderCover does cover the entire hammock bottom. The UnderCover has an entry slit but it isn’t particularly convenient, since you still have to push aside the UnderPad. The Nest has a slit and the Weather Shield doesn’t, which seemed to me to be easier to rearrange after entry. (I sealed the Nest’s slit to itself rather than to the hammock to improve insulation, so my Nest was configured like your No Sniveler.)

> If you had to choose one would it be the Undercover for its added protection, or the Shield for its cost and weight?

I’m still thinking about that. The Weather Shield has the advantages of being breathable and a bit thicker, so it might be a better solution especially with the down Nest; I wasn’t happy to find condensation(?) in the bottom of the UnderCover. (I’m a fan of the Weather Shield material, having relied on a DriDucks jacket in unexpected cold blowing rain.) The price difference is significant, while the weights are almost the same. The UnderCover has the advantage of covering more of the hammock bottom, although at these temps that doesn’t mean much since the UnderPad doesn’t. At warmer temps with strong blowing rain and the standard small HH tarp, the UnderCover would provide more protection to the ends of the hammock. That is the main reason I bought both: to use the Nest with the Weather Shield when it’s cold, and the UnderPad with the UnderCover in warmer, wet and exposed conditions. Unfortunately (or fortunately?) there are a lot of combinations to test with five pieces of gear, not to mention the option of adding pads inside the hammock or other layers under the hammock.

I still need to check whether the UnderCover/UnderPad compresses the Nest when it is sandwiched in there; the Weather Shield definitely doesn’t, in fact, it might have left the Nest hanging a bit loose. These would be even more of concern, both ways, when using two under quilts. I’ll post more info soon.

> Is the JRB Suspension System necessary when you are using the UnderCover?

Yes, otherwise the Nest will just pool underneath you. Even the UnderPad, which is stiffer than the Nest, has tensioning cords on each end (which go on the tarp connector hooks, along with the UnderCover and OverCover tensioning cords).

> And finally, is the UnderPad large enough? I am 6 foot 4, 210 pounds, and usually sleep on my side.

Probably. I’m 6 foot 2, 230 pounds, and also sleep on my side. I poked and prodded through the sides of the hammock to see where the UnderPad was located, and it appeared to cover the sides well enough. I need to test further to see if it covers my toes and head, although this is less crucial in the warmer temps (40-60F) where I plan to use the UnderPad alone rather than the Nest. (The Nest will then become my top quilt.) You might want to take especial consideration of my comment about frostbite and be sure your No Sniveler is long enough to cover your feet!

>I can see the theoretical benefits of the OverCover and UnderCover, but wonder if your practical experience showed that they were worth the weight and cost.

The UnderCover is very expensive, especially compared to the Weather Shield, and is about the same weight. For cold weather, it appears to me that the Weather Shield is better not just because it’s cheaper but because it is breathable, is big enough to protect the Nest and/or UnderPad, and the extra coverage of the UnderCover won’t matter as much since it won’t be raining. However, the Weather Shield probably isn’t necessary to keep the Nest from getting wet when it’s cold and just blowing dry snow, although it might be worth the weight if it added sufficient warmth or allowed you to add more insulating layers if it’s colder than the Nest can handle by itself. The Weather Shield or UnderCover are probably most useful in very cold (below 0F) or warmer temps (near and above freezing) than in the range between.

The OverCover is fairly cheap and light, and I think it is worth its weight when it’s really cold. It’s cold enough in the hammock as it is (enough to freeze a bottle of sports drink a few inches above my face) and if it got windy you might find your eyeballs freezing (you could wear your ski goggles to bed, I suppose).

I hesitate to suggest in this forum that any piece of gear is worth its weight, since you could just try to survive without it. But having frozen my butt (literally) by sleeping in a hammock below freezing without any under-protection, and having slept in -30F colder weather comfortably with, carrying the additional 3 pounds of gear in Wyoming winter is a no-brainer for me. Since I’ve had three successful nights out, I’m going to start removing various pieces until I get cold.

> I reposted this to get your attention. I am guessing you missed it the first time as it happen over a weekend.

I did indeed miss it. One of the shortcomings of BPL’s forum software is that it doesn’t keep good track of messages you have and haven’t seen near the times when you are reading messages, which is what most likely happened here. I was wondering if anybody was still following this thread!

>> If you pulled the tarp down tight against the hammock wouldn’t that do what the OverCover does?

>Since I’ve had three successful nights out, I’m going to start removing various pieces until I get cold.

Temperature last night was +18F with a light breeze. I wore the same clothing as in the +15F/+10F tests (except a 100-weight fleece hat instead of the balaclava), and configured the hammock the same but leaving off the HH OverCover and the JRB Weather Shield bottom (and switched from a small FlexAir pillow to a large). I staked the tarp down close to the hammock; doing so left some uncovered mesh areas on the sides, enough to enjoy the stars and let a bit of air through. I mated the JRB Nest opening to the HH hammock opening to see if my legs would get cold (they didn’t).

I slept warmly all night. Thus, I am happily surprised that the JRB Nest alone as bottom insulation is sufficient for +18F temps (in conjunction with three layers of clothing), and clearly will work much colder. There was no condensation on either the mesh or the tarp (the dew point was about +8F). The weight saved by not using the OverCover and Weather Shield bottom was 14 oz. I may have overinflated the FlexAir pillow, but I found the size large to be less comfortable than the size small in the hammock.

The only bad part is that the test failed: I didn’t get cold. Now I need (1) colder weather; (2) remove the insulated clothing (but I’d be carrying the insulation in the winter anyway, and it sure makes it pleasant when getting out of bed); or (3) swap the JRB Nest for the HH SuperShelter (UnderCover+UnderPad), or even just the UnderPad by itself.

First of all, great post, thanks for all the detail. I had 2 questions:
1. I noticed that you did not use the GG 1/8″ pad or the space blanket with your recent tests… did you find they really are not needed? I was planning on using these both to “bulk up” my JRB nest and Weather shield for my colder temp outings (teens to low 20s likely) but was curious if they really were needed (I have heard varied opinions).

2. I am in process (a local seamstress) in converting my TNF Beeline into a quilt for warmer temps, but was also thinking about also converting my 15 degree bag (for shoulder seasons) also into a quilt but am worried that in the colder temps it might not be a good idea, too drafty at those temps, even in a hammock. Any comments on this? Thanks!

Dane,

Quilts are perfect answers in hammocks…Whatever you tuck in, stays tucked…no muss, no fuss, no extra weight.

But then I’m biased.

Pan

Douglas,
Thanks again for all the great information. I am learning a lot from you. With all my previous questions you were on your way to writing an article :)

What was the wind like on this test? Your previous post convinced me of the value of the OverCover. Are you now doubting it? I’ve wondered if two small fabric loops sewn to the underside of the tarp, where the lines from the hammock come from the sides, would allow you to pull the tarp down tighter to the hammock.

Dane, I would like to echo Pan. I do not sell quilts but own 2 No Sniveler Longs from Jacks R Better (possibly made by Pan) so I am less biased (maybe). A sleeping bag is harder to get into when you are off the ground. Anything you put underneath you in the hammock, such as pads, can be a real challenge to stay on. A quilt inside the hammock and a quilt underneath the hammock is the best I’ve experience thus far.

> 1. I noticed that you did not use the GG 1/8″ pad or the space blanket with your recent tests… did you find they really are not needed?

I think space blankets are overrated. I put one under my sleeping bag in the hammock on a cold night and didn’t notice any difference in warmth (and the sleeping bag loaded up with moisture). I put one under the hammock on top of the JRB Nest in a recent test, and again didn’t notice any difference, even though the next night (when I didn’t use the space blanket) had lower temps. I won’t carry a space blanket/bag in the future, except as emergency gear for day-hiking.

Yes, I’ve been sleeping at temps from +10F to +20F with the JRB Nest (plus three layers of clothing) and haven’t needed to resort to a pad inside the hammock. In the recent tests, I’ve had the BMW TorsoLite in the hammock with me (deflated and shoved in a corner) in case I did get cold, but I haven’t used it. I suspect the GG 1/8″ ThinLight is probably as good or better than the HH UnderPad, but I haven’t tried putting it underneath the hammock in the JRB Weather Shield or HH UnderCover yet. Last summer I used the GG ThinLight in the hammock (with no other bottom insulation) around +40F and it was sufficient, but not toasty; it was warm enough at +50F (especially for the weight of 2.5 oz). GossamerGear may add an over-sized 3/8″ ThinLight to their collection; that would probably work well in a hammock at +40F.

I’m impressed with the temperature range of the JRB Nest alone. YMMV. I’m hoping for colder weather so I can find my shiver-temp for the Nest. With more hammock experience I may be able to trust having no backup option for winter shelter, but right now I would carry a ground cloth, two sleeping pads (ThinLight + TorsoLite or NightLight), and a shovel. That would give me the option of “going to ground” in the hammock or building a snow shelter if the weather got nasty. Once frozen twice shy, to paraphrase an old saw.

> 2. I am in process (a local seamstress) in converting my TNF Beeline into a quilt for warmer temps, but was also thinking about also converting my 15 degree bag (for shoulder seasons) also into a quilt but am worried that in the colder temps it might not be a good idea, too drafty at those temps, even in a hammock. Any comments on this?

I have nothing but positive things to say about quilts in a hammock. I slept in a down sleeping bag in the hammock and froze because the insulation under me was so compressed that it was useless; wasted weight. Further, it is a real pain to get into and out of a sleeping bag (esp. a mummy bag) when you’re swinging in mid-air. The quilt can be shoved from one end of the hammock to the other when you’re getting arranged in the hammock, and then simply pulled over and tucked in. I haven’t ever found my Ray-Way quilt to be drafty, in the hammock or on the ground. The Draft Stopper(tm) is a great idea. For less than an ounce of nylon it really makes a difference in whether any drafts get under the quilt (more so on the ground than in the hammock, where it’s easier to tuck in).

Douglas, I went to the “Ray” site to see his “Draft Stopper (TM)” thing. I decided that I didn’t want to read that much at this time and tried to “BookMark” the page.

I got a message that I was on a waiting list till they could do a background check. If I was approved they would let me come back.

So you know this was done in fun I do have two of his books, or at least part of both books.

> What was the wind like on this test? Your previous post convinced me of the value of the OverCover. Are you now doubting it?

Wind was about 10mph, and last night was 20F warmer than my last test. (My wife said, “It’s almost balmy out there.”) I think the OverCover is more useful when it’s a lot colder or windier. I wouldn’t use it near or above freezing because it would probably cause too much condensation, and those temps aren’t cold enough to freeze your face off inside the hammock.

>I’ve wondered if two small fabric loops sewn to the underside of the tarp, where the lines from the hammock come from the sides, would allow you to pull the tarp down tighter to the hammock.

I think that’s a great idea. I tied the hammock pull-outs to the tarp rings, then staked down the tarp lines. That kept them close, but probably not close enough if it was actually windy. Your idea would also allow the hammock pull-outs to be staked out further.

Bill,
I didn’t pay much attention to the complaints from “anonymous” on that other thread. I’ve had nothing but good experience with Ray-Way service and kits. (It sounded like anonymous was using a broken DNS or something.) Ray has his opinions, for sure, but he also backs them up with big miles living by them. Somebody was ranting a few months ago on Yahoo’s hammock forum about Ray, and also “The Cult of Ryan” (Jordan) that we here on BPL all follow. Isn’t it nice to know you’re part of a cult? ;)

>> Couldn’t you have put the UnderPad between the hammock and the Nest[…]
>[…]Next time I set it up I will test whether either or both of these configurations stay sufficiently close to the hammock bottom.

There are quite a few combinations of the JRB Nest, JRB Weather Shield, HH UnderPad, HH UnderCover, and GG 1/8″ ThinLight pad. I hope the following list makes sense.

The JRB Nest hung on the JRB Suspension System hugs the hammock bottom nicely. The HH UnderPad hung on its own does not–it doesn’t hang closely near the head/shoulders or feet. (To be fair, hanging the UnderPad on its own under the hammock is not an HH-recommended configuration.) The UnderPad does not hug the hammock bottom when hung between the hammock and the Nest–there is an air gap between the hammock and the UnderPad. The UnderPad doesn’t hang closely when hung below the Nest.

The GG 1/8″ ThinLight pad fits without an air gap when placed between the hammock and the Nest, but it is difficult to keep it in position when entering the hammock. (However, it is also difficult to keep the pad in position when placed inside the hammock.) My wife mentioned she noticed the extra warmth immediately when the ThinLight was placed betweem the hammock and the Nest.

The Nest inside the Weather Shield hangs a little low, so I had to snug the JRB Suspension System up extra tight to remove the air gap between the hammock and the Nest. Placing the UnderPad on top of the Nest in the Weather Shield made an air gap between the hammock and the UnderPad. Instead, placing the UnderPad between the Nest and the Weather Shield allowed the Nest to hug the hammock bottom.

The ThinLight fit without air gap between the hammock and the Nest with the Weather Shield supporting the Nest, but it is much easier to keep in position by placing it between the Nest and the Weather Shield.

The HH UnderCover holds all arrangements of the UnderPad, Nest and ThinLight close to the hammock bottom. However, the UnderCover compresses the Nest. Thus, although I was able to use the Nest/UnderPad combo inside the UnderCover at 0F, this is not as effective as it could be. I won’t be using the Nest with the UnderCover in the future.

It appears to me that the optimal bottom insulation configurations are: Nest; ThinLight on Nest; Nest, then optional UnderPad and/or Thinlight, on Weather Shield; and UnderPad and/or ThinLight on UnderCover.

Douglas, thank you for your informative hammock insulation warmth posts. Please keep up the good work.

Approximately how big are the gaps, at each end, between the HH bottom and the under pad? The connection points for the under pad’s bungee cords are on an adjustable prussic. Have you tried putting more tension on the under pad bungee cords to eliminate the gaps?

>Approximately how big are the gaps, at each end, between the HH bottom and the under pad?

It varies (I’m not sure to which configuration you are referring) but generally 2 to 3 inches. Also, some of the gaps, such as when the UnderPad is hung unsupported below the hammock or Nest, are because the UnderPad tension line attachment points are pulled tight enough to distort it from a flat surface. Thus, tightening the UnderPad ends in these cases doesn’t make it hang closer; it just distorts it more. When used with the UnderCover, the UnderCover smooths out those problems by supporting the UnderPad (as HH intended).

> Have you tried putting more tension on the under pad bungee cords to eliminate the gaps?

Not really. Besides the above gap problems where increasing tension doesn’t cure the problem, for most of the cases where there is a gap there is a better equivalent configuration. E.g., I didn’t bother trying to make the UnderPad fit better inside both the Nest and Weather Shield because placing the UnderPad between the Nest and the Weather Shield is better because the Nest slips into place under the hammock much easier than the UnderPad, and condensation is better handled by having it on the UnderPad (where it can be brushed off) rather than inside the Nest.

Since my previous tests had failed to leave me shivering, I decided to try my proposed “summer” (overnight low +35F to +45F) configuration.

Hennessy Hammock Ultralight Explorer (34.6 oz)
Hennessy Hammock UnderCover (9.8 oz)
Hennessy Hammock UnderPad (10.7 oz)
Jacks R Better Nest, used as top quilt (20.2 oz)
FlexAir pillow (small: 0.7 oz)

Evening temp was +28F, with an overnight low of +25F. There was a 30mph wind that was partly blocked, and it dropped to just a light breeze by 3am.

I wore the same clothing as in the +15F/+10F tests. I’ll have to think a bit more about summer clothing because three layers is pretty heavy, but with the Micropuff weighing 13.2 oz and the closest other insulation being a 200-weight fleece vest at 13.4 oz, the Micropuff is still my lightest and most compressible upper-body insulation. I may leave out both the longjohns and the Cocoon pants, and wear my hiking pants to bed for leg warmth, but that will be a big reduction in lower-body insulation. Probably a reasonable risk for summer. (Maybe carry a ThinLight sit pad and put it under my hips at night if needed?)

I slept cold, but not shivery. The JRB Nest was warm enough, big enough, and comfy enough to keep my top-side warm all night. (Yay! That saves over a pound on the Ray-Way quilt, which I made heavier for winter use.) The bottom of my upper torso was cool, but the wind didn’t seem to affect heat loss (I could hear the gusts but not feel them). The UnderPad wasn’t long enough to cover both my feet and my head (bummer), so I made sure it covered my heels and relied on the FlexAir pillow, Bomber hat and balaclava to insulate my head (it felt sufficient). The worst cold spot was along the entry slit, which made my legs cold, and the discomfort interrupted my sleep. The UnderPad didn’t seem to seal well there, and the UnderCover’s entry slit is loose so maybe it doesn’t hold the UnderPad close. I’m going to have to look at that area more closely with somebody in the hammock. I might need to add snaps or velcro to the UnderCover’s entry slit edges.

There was moisture between the UnderPad and the UnderCover again, so clearly it is condensation against the non-breathable fabric. The UnderPad is open-cell foam, but it doesn’t appear to actually get soaked; the condensation is on the outside. I staked the tarp down tightly against the hammock. This time there was some condensation on the tarp, and when the gusts rattled the tarp there was a light dusting of cold frost on my face (not unpleasant, though). At one point it felt very close in the hammock and I had a bit of a headache. I flapped the sides of the hammock to get some fresh air inside, and the headache went away. It’s possible that the hammock was too closely sealed (the HH OverCover has a porthole in it to promote fresh air exchange). This could be dangerous, so I will make sure I don’t stake it quite that close again.

Cold is acceptable; shivery is a bit on the edge. (When you wake up shivering, then stop and fall back asleep, are you warming up or dropping into profound hypothermia? That’s a serious question to ask yourself in the middle of the night.) This configuration was meant to keep me cozy and warm at a typical +35F to +45F (which I will have to test in a few months), but it also needs to handle down to +25F. (I’m sure you’ve all heard the phrase, “Any day of the year…” It’s happened to me more than once.) Not necessarily comfortably, but at least you shouldn’t have to spend the night doing isometrics. This configuration passed the test.

I’m really surprised that this worked out. I expected to bail half-way through the night, but although I didn’t get a good night’s sleep, I was able to sleep most of the night. I thought about inserting the ThinLight at 3am, but I figured I wouldn’t be carrying it in the summer anyway. Temps lower than +25F aren’t likely in my summer hiking, and I figure the shiver point was about 10F lower. Thus, this configuration (4.75 pounds of shelter and sleep gear) should work for me for the full summer season in the high country.

Douglas – Thank you for another very useful post.

I suggest that you repeat this test with a 3 oz Space Emergency Blanket on top of the UnderPad. HH Super Shelter testers in Backpack Gear Test found a very significant increase in warmth by doing this.

If you are lying in the hammock at an angle, like it was designed, your legs should be to the right of the slit and above the UnderPad. In one of your earlier posts you mentioned that there was a multi-inch gap between the UnderPad and the bottom of the hammock at both the head and foot area. A Space Emergency Blanket will only reflect radiant heat if there is an air gap. Ideally it needs to be at least an inch. It just acts as a heat conductor if it is touching the bottom of the hammock. I expect that your legs will then be toasty in the same environmental conditions with this 3 oz addition. You shouldn’t have to modify the slit for warmth. Hopefully this test will show up soon as your Hammock warmth 5 post.

Douglas, thanks again!

That is very encouraging about the JRB Nest. I have the No Sniveller Long and would expect it to preform the same.

I was suspicious that the UnderPad would be too small. Maybe Tom would be willing to sell a long version. The width was good for you though?

The Hennessy web site lists the UnderPad at 6 oz and the Undercover at 8 oz. That’s quite a difference from your measurements. I bet yours are right unfortunately.

It is sounding like the JRB Weather Shield (WS) may be a better option than the Undercover. If the UnderCover were made out of the same material as the WS and didn’t have the slit. Is the silt needed because of how the UnderCover fits on the hammock?

Your test bringing the tarp down close to the hammock was interesting. It sounds like it works too well. You had 30 mph wind and did not mention it being a problem so I assume the tarp blocked it. I really want to get rid of the OverCover. It seems there must be a way.

Just out of curiosity, which part of the country do you usually hike in in the summer?