Jan 4, 2006 at 2:01 pm #1217464
I have had an eagles net outfitters single nest hammock since this summer, I got it on sale at a boy scout camp, last one left for $25, what a steal. I will tell you that this is not the only peice of gear that I got the last of, but that is another story.
anyway, I have not yet taken it backpackig, and these last few days I have been very interested in trying it out, it is not the lightest hammock, but in the summer I will still be able to take it on SUL trips.
I am wondering if it will be compatible with any of the Jacks R better under quilts?
I am also asking for any other recomendatons from hammock campers about sleeping and shelter systems for use in hammocks, under and top insulation, how cold will it go, can I take it in the winter, do I have to adjust any other gear other than sleeping and shelter, or anything else you can think of.
Thanks to Carol Crooker for all her articles on SUL hammock camping. I tested out your set up with a sea to summit tarp over my hammock with a golite poncho, and I think it will work. your articles will be a real help.Jan 4, 2006 at 2:17 pm #1347904
Ryan the Younger,
FYI. Think you also got the last Clo-Up. Tried to order one quite a few months ago and spoke with Lars (?) at Montbell. He told me that they sold the last one earlier that day. Had to settle for the 23oz BurrowBag U.L. – just like the Clo-Up, but with a hood.Jan 4, 2006 at 2:36 pm #1347905
Yeah, sorry Anon, that was me.
I noticed that, it was out of stock the moment after I orderd it, I did not know that they were not going to re-stock, Glad I orderd it whenI did, sorry you missed out though, it is a great bag, It has taken me to 15 degrees once, with a quite minimal layering system for what I was attemting, I cant say that I was warm, but not too uncomfortable, it is much better at 40+ temps, I am just crazy.
I also, me and my dad actually, got the last two Golite poncho tarps that were on sale at travel country a while ago for under $30. just luck I guessJan 4, 2006 at 2:53 pm #1347907
The Jacks’R’Better quilts work fine on the Eagles Nest Hammock.
I thought the large carabiner and slap straps were too heavy so I replaced them with a 7 mm line and tree huggers.
What takes me down to 25 degress is: Worn is expedition weight long underwear, fleece socks, light balaclava, and PolarGuard insulated jacket. The bag is a Nunatak Arc Alpinist with the straps snapped over the bag. The under quilt is a Jacks ‘R’ Better quilt.
If the temperatures are expected to be below 25 degrees I drop to the ground. The snow under your sleeping pad is excellent insulation and seldom gets below 32 degrees. Why fight the temperature on two fronts?
It is possible to stay warm well below 25 degrees, but not as light as a ground system on snow.Jan 4, 2006 at 2:59 pm #1347908
I just saw that you have the GoLite poncho/tarp. That will make a great fly if you attach it to the hammock lines so the it stays closer to the hammock. Throw a prussik on the hammock line and attach with mini carabiners.Jan 4, 2006 at 3:15 pm #1347909
You have one of these hammocks correct, I think you said this but I am making sure, dosent the under quilt have attachment points in the middle for HH? do you need this for quilt to work, or dose your the eagals nest work without any center attachment along the side?
thanks, I will try attaching the guys to the line I use to suspend Hammock. I dont know waht this rope is, it looks like climbing rope almost, but much lighter and thinner .Jan 4, 2006 at 4:06 pm #1347912
Yes, I do own one.
The first time I attached the under quilt to the hammock with 4 binder clips along the sides. They are not needed and did not stay attached anyhow.
All of my ideas are brilliant, but not all of them work.Jan 4, 2006 at 4:29 pm #1347915
thanks Rich, I am glad to hear they are not needed, imagine the insane extra weight of binder clips, just kidding :-)
my next question for you and all is whether to get the no sniveller or nest under quilt. it looks like they both can be used as an under quilt, top quilt and camp wear, they are both 20oz and pack down the same, which is better and why
thanksJan 5, 2006 at 6:01 am #1347940
The No Sniveller would be more appropriate for use with the Eagles Nest since it’s a top/side entry hammock. You don’t need the Hennessy bottom entry slit of the Nest.
Jacks ‘R’ Better
http://www.jacksrbetter.comJan 5, 2006 at 12:01 pm #1347949
I guess I will go with the advice from the creator, also, Carol Crooker, the expert hammock camper, uses one frequently, that is enough for me.Jan 5, 2006 at 7:35 pm #1347972
I can sleep comfortably on the ground with a foam pad, bivy, Arc ghost, long pants, rain pants, cocoon ,golite wisp, underarmor cold gear and long sleeve shirt with a fleece hat into the low 20s . my question is, can I sleep as warm in a hammock with an under quilt and ghost with a similar clothing system.
sadly, Carol crookers hammock trips have not gotten that cold, so I dont know.Jan 6, 2006 at 5:53 am #1347986
We’ve had customer reports that a Nest under quilt and a No Sniveller top quilt will get you that low with less clothing. I’ve personally been into the upper twenties with that quilt set up wearing light weight fleece long johns, down booties and a light fleece balaclava.
Jack MyersJan 6, 2006 at 11:56 am #1348003
sweet, I thought it may be warmer in the air compared to the ground. my ghost is probably as warm or warmer than the no sniveller as a top and with a no sniveller under quilt I could take to the low teens with a good layering system. I have gone to 15 with a 50 degree bag once, but was not very comfortable, but I am very tollerant to the cold
thanks JackJan 6, 2006 at 12:47 pm #1348004
Rick DreherBPL Member
@halfturboLocale: Northernish California
I’m willing to bet Carol’s not sad the temps didn’t drop terribly low ;-)
I think of a hammock as an inverse convection oven–call it a convection refrigerator–and I’m wary of tackling anything below 40 in my rig (Hennessy, 3/8 foam pad, 2# down bag). My guess is that when hammocking, we’re eliminating some conductive heat loss and adding considerable convective loss. And, any breeze really increases this loss, certainly having more effect than when sleeping on the ground.
Transitioning to using the hammock itself for hosting the insulation makes a lot of sense to me, and I’m only sorry it’s so costly to give it a fair shot. I can definitely say that as long as I’m warm, there’s nothing remotely close to the comfort of hammock sleeping.Jan 6, 2006 at 1:39 pm #1348006
That’s the primary reason for the existence of Jacks ‘R’ Better. We wanted to be able to use our hammocks year around. We experimented with every combination of pad and insulation ideas before we broke down and made our first under quilts. It only took one December night in snow, sleet, and freezing rain, temps in the low 30s to upper 20s, and sleeping soundly for 8 hours straight through the night to convince us we’d found the answer. We will never go to ground again if there are trees or a reasonable facsimile in the area. Fence posts, swing sets, etc. will serve the purpose. JRB is about sharing the best answer with the rest of the hammocking community.
JackJan 6, 2006 at 8:30 pm #1348030
@mlarsonLocale: Southeast USA
It doesn’t seem that hammocks are as widespread in the UL/SUL community as they are in the rest of the outdoor world. But that will hopefully change. A good resource for you to check out would be the popular Yahoo group for hammock camping. There is a strong hammock community at WhiteBlaze, with lots of info in the archives. Ed Speer of Speer hammocks also keeps a good collection of links at hammockcamping.com.
Just wanted to give you some leads to find even more answers and inspiration…
-MarkJan 7, 2006 at 5:52 am #1348048
@peter_panLocale: Co-Owner Jacks 'R' Better, LLC, VA
There is really no reason that hammock use is not more wide spread in the UL community… Carol has aptly demonstrated multiple viable approaches to hammock camping with SUL loads below the arbitrary 5 pound threshhold… I have a 7 pound UL summer hammock gear list that is all commercially available…See gear list at http://22.214.171.124/index_files/Gear%20List.htm
This list could go 2, possibly three season… there are three season and winter loads still in the UL range… Couple of weekends ago I put together a winter list at 9 pound using the new JRB hood and sleeves and eliminating an insulation layer.
It seems to me that the issue ought to be about comfort and weight vs just weight…
When one goes from ground sleeping in tents to ground sleeping under a tarp or in a bivi, the comfort of ground sleeping is about the same… I agree there are warmth and degree of shelter issues that go to comfort but most of the debate here is in a realitively close range… clearly then weight may be fairly viewed as the descriminating issue ( some tenters may disagree, and yes, Alpine conditions bring the tent etc back into play or at least serious consideration).
The comfort of a hammock is many time that of the ground… yes techniques are different… but while education and experiance is invaluable it is weight free… Warmth and wind protection is available several ways… normally at less weight than tenting alternative and close to all but the most extreme minimal tarp SUL or EUL.
There are several individuals with silk hammocks and cuben tarps etc that could easily be SUL Hammockers…
Let the debates begin.
JackJan 7, 2006 at 6:52 am #1348049
for three season, I carry less than 3.5 lbs of gear. But lately, I figured out that my main goal was under 5. so now I am adding back a few comforts, I will still always take the same cooking, clothing, packing systems, but I am going to change my list to include a hammock, and when that is not an option, to include an inflatable pad. I guess I think, why sleep on a foam pad when you dont have too? I can go SUL in comfort, on the ground and in the air
thanks Jack and Mark.Jan 7, 2006 at 6:55 am #1348050
sounds like you have had some problems with the wind, have you checked out the JRB weather sheild?Jan 7, 2006 at 9:05 am #1348058
I figured out I can leave the heavy carabeaners at home by suspending the hammock similarly to the speer hammocks by tying the rope around the knot at the end of the hammock. Can you do the same with an ultralight travel hammock, I am thinking of upgrading to this 10oz or less hammock. without the steel S hooks it may be aroun 7oz
ps, sorry, I dont know how to spell carabeanersJan 7, 2006 at 2:54 pm #1348076
well this worked all day today, I took a couple naps, and it shows no signs of wear, I may be crazy, but I cut the black cord you see in the picture off right before it reaches the knott that keeps the hammock together, my hammock now weighs 13.4oz. I have decided to get the ultralight travel hammock an try modifying it similarly, dose anyone have a travel hammock and see any reason this may not work? if so I would apreciate hearing from you, thanks.
I also found the perfect knot for tying around the end of the hammock, it holds very well and is easy to tie and even easier to undo.
try to follow the pictures, the battery on my camera was almost out so there was no flash, luckily the cord is bright yellow.
first, take the end of the rope not connected to the tree and wrap it around the end of the hammock and feed it through the hole it makes, dont tighten it yet
then wrap around the back of the cord like this
and then feed it through that space leving a loop so when you take the hammock down you just pull the end of the cord and the knot is undone
this knot works, and is easy to undo, I like it. I dont know if this has been done before, but I did come up with it myself :-)
and try to tighten it as much as you can before getting into the hammock, or the knot wont be secure and may uno itself, just pull tightly a few times and you are good to goJan 7, 2006 at 4:37 pm #1348085
I have modified my hammock down to 13.4oz, I removed compression straps on the stuff sack, removed the carabeeners and extra cord at the ends.
the only other way I can think of lightening is by removing the stuff sack and using my small OR helium stuff sack, but I havent yet, and I dont know if I will.
I cant wait to get an ultralight travel hammock and do the same stuff, this will bring it down under 7oz I expect.Jan 8, 2006 at 9:13 am #1348113
@vickrhinesLocale: Central Texas
1) Be careful when testing your brainstorms. You may weigh 110 soaking wet, but if you fall far, you’ll bust your butt. Necks have been broken. So hang the hammock just above the ground or put a thick pad (4 inches or more) under it when you first try a new rig. Remember your physics: energy increases with the square of the velocity, and the velocity increases at 32 feet per second per second of fall. Erk! Ergo, higher hurts more. (Ergo-erg, bad physics joke.)
2) Be careful with unfamiliar rope. Small diameter Spectra line is very slippery and can slip out of a knot. It requires complex knots with lots of friction. See “sudden death” above.
3) The knot on the end of the hammock does not have to be undone except for modifications – never once you get it right. However the Speer rig with a knot in the hammock and a loop in the line is the best of all possible worlds: secure and easily untied. Ever the contrarian, I use a double sheet bent instead because it is more compact and elegant. Anyway, the point is,a slip knot is not useful. On the other hand, it is likely to loosen and drop you like a hangman.
4) Save the easily untied knots for the free end – the one that goes on the tree. And be careful there, too. The lineman’s knot or rigger’s knot – the so-called Hennessey knot – will not jamb, so it will always untie easily. Jambing is the second biggest problem with hammock knots. (The first one is coming undone unexpectedly.) The lineman’s knot is especially useful with small diameter, high modulus line such as Spectra or Dyneema. It is also best for slippery lines, such as small Spectra and Dyneema. Funny how that works out. The same caution applies with the tree knot. Screw up and you will hit the ground. Hard. No joke.Jan 8, 2006 at 1:21 pm #1348127
thanks Vick, this knot works great for the rope I am using, but if I get a new cord I will be careful testing with it like you said.
I modified my hammock further today, I untied the black cord on each end holding the hammock together and cut off a few inches from one side, I did not have to sew anything because I cut at the seam of one of the side colors, if you look at the picture on the eagles nest website, just picture it like it is, but missing one of the colored sides. and also, instead of replacing the cord at the ends, I just tied a knot in the fabric at each end. it is a little shorter, but still longer than I need at 8.5 ft., and will probably fit better under my tarp. it is still wider than I need, I could cut off the other side color and it would be about perfect, but I am afraid it would not work with an underquilt because it is too small, what do you think.Jan 8, 2006 at 3:08 pm #1348136
@vickrhinesLocale: Central Texas
Wide is good. It lets you sleep almost flat in the diagonal, Central American style. That may not seem important now, but on the trail, when your knees are aching and your back wants to spaz out, you will be grateful. The underquilt will work regardless. Don’t worry about that. If it comes over the side a little, no problem.
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