BP 101 – Washing Your Bottom W/O TP

Thanks, Dave. Much appreciated.

Dave,
I'm with you on the wind concern. I always pee on it afterward, or douse it with a little water from a bottle, same as I used to do with fires back when I was still building them, wind or no wind, but especially when it's windy.

Brian,

Do you use TP hiking in the east in your home area?

I still carry TP because on those rare occasions I need to dig a hole at night I want the quick and dirty method. Sometimes my digestive tract works quicker than normal and I use TP. When I hike in the Grand Canyon most everything is sharp and prickly — on a five night trip I expect to use TP once.

It is not a perfect technique, but it is my primary technique.

Before my conversion I would get monkey butt a couple of times a year — after never. YMMV

Yes, I feel the soil around here can easily handle it.
I try to use leaves and stuff to. It lets me carry less paper. But sometimes ist just faster and easier to whip out the TP.

Let me add that in special environments I fully accept that TP is unacceptable. I just cant remember the last time I was in such a place.

"Seriously though, I tried to go TP-less on the JMT this year. But all I could find to use was pine cones."

I did the whole JMT sans TP.

Rocks!!!!

Brian,

To be a complete golfer you need to have a long game, a short game and a hot putter. You need the full bundle of techniques. I think you need the complete bundle of technique to be a skilled hiker. Primarily I use no TP, but sometimes I do use TP and carry it out when appropriate.

On very rare occasions the smear technique is appropriate. In slot canyons you need to use a blue bag, but there are places in the desert where there is no biological activity in the soil, but lots of sun and a dry wind. UV may be the best best way to eliminate the biological hazards.

Huzefa:

Since you've never actually used toilet paper before — what do you think of this Western concept of smearing paper around and around the hole to "capture" most of the stuff — but rarely if ever all of it — and thus forever leaving just a bit to dry and cake up inside — until the next shower or bath?

Ben,
Just for your consideration –

The 'fecal load' of a typical public swimming pool is around 5 Pounds, not taking into consideration toddlers is diapers.

Even with the request to "shower before swimming".

The studies I have read is that you are more likely to get giardia from a public pool than untreated water in the backcountry.

My local Recreation center is down to about one diaper accident per week. Still closes the pool for about 2 hours.

Coming to think of it, why are folks so darn squeamish about touching their own residue — but think nothing about immersing their faces into a fecal pool — with a hundred butts bobbing about — that's euphemistically rechristened "swimming" pool? Culture — all learned.

…and no thanks on the bathtub…..
I prefer to shower…….

Mike,
I said pretty much everything I have to say about the actual subject in my last post at the bottom of the previous page(2),
so I will rest my case until I get a reply from you that indicates you have read what I said and are addressing the points I made therein, instead of rather imperiously saying:
"Since you've read the article, here's the one thing you need to do.

1) go camping without toilet paper." as if I was some Junior Woodchuck sitting raptly at you feet waiting for enlightenment from on high. I'll address the "attitude" in my next post, "Unwarranted Assumptions", which you seem to be pretty good at making.

Can we please move on from this thread? Enough already people!!

Mike,
My general problem is that you seem to assume that anyone who disagrees with your method is:
1) A rank beginner
2) Hasn't tried "The Method"
3) Is squeamish/uptight about potty manners
4) 2 or more of the above
When you didn't bother to respond to what I said and instead told me that "what you need to do is…" it indicated to me that you assumed I was inexperienced. In reality, I have been backpacking since 1974 ,mostly in the Sierra at or above timberline. In that time I can guarantee you that no one has ever found a trace of where I did my business, unless someone equally careful happened to turn over one of my rocks in some obscure place. Of this I am as certainas I can be about anything in this life.
The bit about reading between the lines and knowing I had never tried the method in equally unwarranted. I lived in Iraq as a student and worked years later for a year in Iran. Trust me when I say I am thoroughly familiar with the water method. I have also tried it in the mountains and backed off due to concerns about hand sanitation. Ben and I are currently batting this one back and forth, but as peers, and I am still considering it. I just think your rock method is a bad idea, period.
Squeamish? See above.
Be careful about assumptions, Mike. We are a diverse lot and many of us have a whole lot more on the ball than you seem to "assume".

.

Right on, Dave! And with that, I'm outta here. Will the last one off the stage please remember to turn out the lights?

Something tells me Tom will be back again…

Kidding aside, the bantering has gone on long enough. OK, lights out!

Kidding aside, the bantering has gone on long enough. OK, lights out!

even the crappy $16 a night Madrid hotel right above the shop with the huge neon sign flashing SEX all night.

Bet the don't turn that light off!!

LOL — no one has complained about that light. :)

Tom,

Got your message, and you are right, I can devolve into Mr. Smarty pants. Sorry if I came across as too opinionated.

The bigger issue to me is all the toilet paper i find in the backcountry. It really bums me out. I make an effort to pick it up and carry it out (or burn it if I can). And seeing so much sloppy popping – it's turned into an emotional thing. I feel like I've made it a sort of mission of mine to solve this one problem, and it's made me into a zealot.

I've actually stated (somewhere on this forum) that I was gunna back off of this topic, because I could feel that fanaticism welling up in me.

Anyway – I think all of us have beaten the dead horse more than needed (especially me)

Peace,
M!

Mike,
Wholeheartedly accepted. It takes a big man to respond as you have publicly. It helped me a whole lot to understand where you were coming from. Turns out we share a very similar attitude toward misuse of TP in the backcountry. It has definitely gone beyond being the occasional nuisance. Mostly, I just grind my teeth and go ballistic, silently or otherwise, but you have inspired me to start picking up after the thoughtless b#s+t*r$d=! from here on. Something I should have done long before now, since I regularly haul other trash out of the backcountry. Thanks for the insight.
Peace,
Tom

>Huzefa, You are from Sahyadris (in West India) right?

I live in Mumbai actually. Sahyadri (another name for western ghats, the range along the west coast of India) is the range where I hike.

>Since you've never actually used toilet paper before — what do you think of this Western concept of smearing paper around and around the hole to "capture" most of the stuff — but rarely if ever all of it — and thus forever leaving just a bit to dry and cake up inside — until the next shower or bath?

It doesnt work for me. I cant hike with that dry stuff stuck on my bottom or the smell. I have to wash it clean with water and use a hand sanitizer afterwords.

On short trips hold it until you get back if you cannot decide on an outdoor method!-)

OK, and I'm serious here, are there any studies that someone can point me to regarding TP in the backcountry? I'm particularly interested in how long it takes for the TP to decompose (biodegrade?) when buried with the fecal matter. I'd be particularly interested if they ran experiments with differing environmental variables (elevation, solar exposure, ground moisture, soil content, etc.)