Help me choose a new sleeping bag

You can't go wrong with the Western Mountaineering Versalite. It will keep you warm and toasty even if you get caught in weather worse than 15*

The WM line are all great bags,IMHO. The Ultralite has a narrower cut then the Alpinelite and Versalite so be sure the fit is right for you. I like the narrow cut but many find it to confining or restrictive. If your planning to layer a jacket for additional warmth the wider cut of the Alpinelite and Versalite may provide greater versitility.

Scratch the Mountain Hardwear Phantom 15 off your list for sure, unless you are looking for a 32F bag.

Is there a reason you don't have Montbell bags on the list? I own two and they are great.

Based on your criteria and my experience in WM bags, I would suggest the Versalite.

For 2lbs (and $400) you get 6" loft, 20oz 850 down, 62" girth. In my opinion, the Versalite can you take you down to 0* with a base layer and high loft insulation.

The stated weights on WM bags agree with my experience. My Summerlite in its stuff sack is exactly 19oz.

If you want to save 3oz you can use the Ultralite, which should keep you warm to around 15* with additional insulation. However, I view this as pure 3-season bag and the Versalite as a 4-season bag in anything but the coldest climes.

The extra length on the Phantom probably was not the culprit. I partially blame MH as they tend to rate their lines optimistically in my experience. Although, many other factors could have contributed (shelter, wind, etc.). I would recommend against the MH.

What kind of shelter do you use?

Where do you hike in Texas that gets colder than 15*?

Brad, Thom, Adam:
The Versalite looks attractive if it is really no more than 2 lbs. However, I'm not sure if it might be overkill, esp. if WM is conservative with their ratings. Again, I don't expect to see temps below 15 F (although I guess wind can lower that), esp. here in Texas.

Chad:
I did look at a couple Montbell bags online, but I'm not sure if I go for the stretchy idea. Also, they seemed a bit heavier when I checked the specs.

Tom:
Is the Mountain Hardwear Phantom 15 really that bad? Do they not add good quality down or what? I've been rather happy with the Phantom 32 at recorded temps of down to 34 degrees (frost on my tent whilst in Colorado in July) with only my baselayers on and a lightweight hat and gloves. I will admit that the Phantom bag doesn't puff up like my Western Mountaineering Cloudrest Pillow. I have to shake the Phantom quite a bit and wait before it puffs up.

Adam:
Last year my winter trip was in Guadalupe Mountains National Park (on the border of west Texas and New Mexico). I was close to 8000' elevation and temps dropped to at least 20 degrees overnight. With the horrible winds (I'm not kidding, they were like 70 mph or more), the wind chill was probably much lower. I think some northwestern regions of Texas–maybe the Panhandle–probably sees temps down in the teens at least in the winter time. Here in Houston, we'll be lucky if it freezes. :)

All: Any experience with the Marmot Helium? My only concern with it is that the 66" shoulder girth is rather wide for me. If the 60" Phantom fits well (without a down jacket, admittedly), it seems like an extra 6" would be huge. (Too bad I can't try these bags out anywhere locally).

My versalite super is 34.6 oz on my digital scale.

David,

I have been using the Marmot Helium EQ for 1.5 yrs and my friend, Jeremy, has the Helium. (The EQ is 2 lbs 3 oz and has a waterproof/highly water resistant shell).

I am 5'6" and 142 lbs…not a big guy.

The Helium has a roomy cut and was listed as a possible issue by backpacker mag, also, it does not have a chest "baffle" like the Phantom does. (My wife has your bag).

Despite these issues, I absolutely love my bag.

The cinche strap for the hood it simple and does not require velcro to stay put.

It creates a good seal around your head/face and eliminates the need for a chest baffle to trap warm air.

I love the inside fabric of the Helium…silky smooth and the bag does breath well.

Personally, I have used the Helium EQ down to 5 degrees F, laying a lot of clothing and I was fine.

In this respect, the extra room inside the Helium is perfect for layering up.

Since you are not expecting temps below 15 Degrees, then this bag might be overkill.

Note: The EQ has a full length zipper while the regular Helium is 3/4 length. The bag was too hot for my friend, Jeremy, this past August…temps 50 to 40 degrees. Also, the Helium's interior fabric, which I think is some form of Pertex, is not down proof. I seem to lose 2 feathers per use.

I have a review on the BPL Read Review if you want more of my thoughts on this bag.

Hope this helps you out.

P.S. I have the Marmot Atom & Helium. In some ways, I wish that I had gotten the Marmot Hydrogen, which is a 30 degree bag. 1 lb 8 oz. You might give it a look.

-Tony

Another vote for the Versailite here. The extra girth makes it, to me, worth the extra 3oz over an ultralite. Either way I personally would go with WM.

I have this bag and love it.

The DWR – is there any?
Thin fabric not super wind resistant, compared to their MF bags.
3/4 zip – long enough for winter use. Awesome anti-snag zipper tape. My Feathered friends always jam theirs.
The only flaw I have seen in this bag is their collar cord-tab velcro, on the pillow side, has square corners that have poked me twice in the eye. I am a spaz.

I got 2 oz overfill, through the Hermit's Hut.

10 degrees is probably fair. I have been borderline at around 12 with a down jacket on, but it was snowy and windy and I dont like to snug a hood over me.

If you already have a summer bag, go for a colder winter one, weight considered.
This bag is not that big, can be hard to close if I wear a huge jacket.

Tony:
Did you actually measure your Helium EQ at 2 lb, 3 oz? Do you think Marmot's listed weight is spot on for the Helium?

Paul:
Have you measured the Versalite's weight?

All: Has anyone tested the Alpinlite to see its true rating? Does anyone know if the listed weight is correct?

David, I am a touch bigger than you, 5 7 and 155. I have a MH Merceds 32 in LONG and regularly sleep in the bag in silk weight underwear down to 28 comfortably and have been to 26 in it with a handwarmer and fleece underwear. I also have an old Helium with the short zipper. I hate that short zip! I have not really been in too cold weather in the bag. 12 has been the lowest and I was comfortable in the silk weight longjohns. I can't stand it in the bag above 35 degrees . As long as the newer versions of the Helium are equal to the old one I would expect you would like it. Personally I wish I had a WM with a full zipper in it over the Helium so I could use it in warmer weather. The pertex shell on the Helium is excellent turning breezes and mist or breath condensation but passes down easily when packing it. The Merced used to be horrible and soaked water but a little TX Direct Nikwax has it turning wind drifted rain so far and due to all the room in the bag I find myself using it in colder and colder weather with my jacket in the foot end to fill the excess space. It is the only place I get chilled early on in that bag! It's 600 fill amazes me at how well it does!
In conclusion: I guess I am amazed there are some that get cold in the MH bags before the rated temp.
I like the Helium bag I have but it has lots of drawbacks if the weather is gong to be in the mid to high 30's and I have issues with the down coming out of the pertex all the time.
I would pick a WM bag over the Helium due to the factors I have mentioned above.
Hope that helped a little.
Pat C.

David,

I did not weight it…I am going off the listed weight.

If you want, I can weight mine tonight, subtract the weight of the compression bag and post up my weight tonight.

In my case, my target for base weight was sub 15 lbs, so if the bag was a little heavy, then I wasn't too concerned.

Plus, I did seam seal my bag, which probably added a 1 or 2 oz.

Having slept in my bag while laying in a muddle puddle, I am especially paranoid about getting my down bag wet.

-Tony

OK, I check Marmot's website. The new Helium has a full zip and is listed as 1 lb, 15 oz. I hope that number is accurate. I also noticed that they list the shoulder girth as 157 cm = 61.8". That seems about perfect for me. I don't know why backcountry.com lists the shoulder at 64". That seems way big.

I'm caught between the Versalite, Phantom, and the Helium, but leaning towards the Helium. I wish I could get accurate weights on these bags.

I just ordered a Versalite from Backcountry.com and it came in the mail yesterday.

Compared to my MB SS 35 degree bag, this thing is like a tank. Even with the lightweight fabric, it really seems to be built well.

My Versalite clocked in at 35 oz. Given that the WM weights are usually right on, I assume this extra weight is due to about 3 oz overfill, presumably making it a 5 deg F bag.

These bags are rarely on sale, but Backcountry has a fatwallet.com 7% sale right now through 12/31. Sign up for fatwallet, and click through to the backcountry website and make your purchase. After 90 days you get a check back in the mail. 7% off my versalite was a check for 30 bucks. The cash back doesn't work with additional coupons.

FYI – there are alot of good cash back deals through 12/31 going on. Nothing like free money back on top of sale prices:

Altrec.com 7.0%
Backcountry.com 7.0%
EMS 7.0%
Moosejaw 7.0%
Patagonia 4.0%
REI 3.0%

etc…

I just got the Helium in the mail from backcountry.com. I think I paid around $320 for it–it was discounted slightly. I got the Helium for my wife at altrec.com and only paid $220(!).

My initial impressions are that the Helium is a nice bag, fits me well and feels warm, however it is slightly heavier than I anticipated. Listed weight is 1 lb, 15 oz. It weighs in at 33.4 oz.

I'm thinking of trying another bag from WM before I make my final decision. I'd like a bag under 2 lbs if possible. I don't expect to encounter 10 degree temps, so I'm not sure I need the Versalite.

You could try a WM Ultralite with 2oz of overfill. The weight should be less than 2lbs with stuff sack.

MSRP is $378.

> FYI – there are alot of good cash back deals through 12/31 going on. Nothing like free money back on top of sale prices:
> Altrec.com 7.0%
> Backcountry.com 7.0%
> EMS 7.0%

Expect to see more of these as the recession drags on. The discounts may get deeper too.

Current Australian markup in Main St gear shops is over 100%. So the shops have a LOT of room to reduce their margins with discounts. Roll on.

David, If you end up sending the helium back I would suggest you take a look at the hydrogen. Marmot makes some nice bags especially for the money paid on sale. I have a hydrogen that I use for exactly the condions you describe, which is a bit below the 30 degree rating, but the bag is capable of it in a bivy, fleece cap, and insulating jacket. My hydrogen weighs 1 on 7 oz. It is the older version with half zip so the new (full zip) speced at 1 on 8 oz. iirc should be well under your 2 on goal.

Jamie

Actually the Helium only has a 64" width in the long while the regular is a 62" width. The new models ('08) of the Helium have a full length zipper. Supposedly 1,15# and 19.5oz of fill. In comparison the Alpinlite Super has a 64" girth, 1,15oz weight and 19oz of fill in a regular. Or a Badger SuperMF which has a girth of 67", 2,8# weight and a fill of 25oz for a regular. If you want to get an accurate weight on the Helium or others, call Marmot's warranty and have them weigh the bag for you on their scale. They usually will do this with little grumbling.

They all cost about the same on retail but you rarely see the Western Mountaineering go on sale. Marmot go on sale just about every February/March when the new models come out and you can get them cheaper than what their Western Mountaineering counterparts sell for used.

I will be getting a Helium in a long soon as I traded in an old Marmot bag that was reaching the end of its life and I was able to get credit towards a new one. Western Mountaineering does not do this btw. So I should be able to tell you what is up with it and what I think.

Also, since these bags are full zip you can always unzip them fully and use them as a quilt. You can also go to a REI if you have one close and have them ship over a Helium from another store to try it out before you buy.

My Western Mountaineering Ultralite is 31.35 oz packed. List is 29 oz so I assume the extra 2.35 ounce is the stuff sack.

How heavy is the stuff sack? I'm guessing around 1 oz? That would make it around 30 oz, right? This makes it about 3 oz lighter than the Helium, based on my measurements.

I am concerned about the narrow girth, however. 59" is a tight squeeze, esp. if you're wearing a down jacket. The 62" Helium fits me about right.

Jamie:
I've looked also at the Marmot Hydrogen, but for summer use. However, I already have the MH Phantom 32 for that purpose–it weighs only 1 lb, 7 oz. If I were to get another summer bag, I think I'd try a WM Summerlite which is supposed to be 1 lb, 3 oz.

Now that I think about it, maybe I can get by with the Phantom 32 for my upcoming Big Bend trip. Low temps don't seem to be getting into the 20s very much. With a down jacket, do you think the Phantom 32 would suffice for temps down to say…25 degrees?

David-

I'm a dealer for all three of the companies in question. Short version, I'd get the Versalite.

Frankly, I don't think it would make much sense to worry about it having a 5* lower temp rating; overall that difference is insignificant. And you can shift some down to the bottom if necessary. As for the Ultralite, I'm a 42" chest and have comfortably worn a down jacket (in the Summerlite, actually, but same cut). Weight and temp ratings for WM are generally spot on.

Regarding the Phantom bags, it's not a matter of MH not adding good quality down. They do use good down. They just don't use as much of it as a company like WM does. As a result, MH bags tend to be on the thinner side and not as accurately rated for temperature. In the shop I have a MH Phantom 45 hanging by a WM Mitylite (40*). The two bags are a good illustration of the typical differences between the companies. The Western bag feels at least twice as thick as the Phantom. This isn't to say MH doesn't make some good bags, because they do. But in this category, WM wins by a landslide IMHO.

The Helium is a nice bag, too; at this point you largely get into personal preferences. However, there are two significant reasons Western bags would still be my recommendation. One, the Helium doesn't have a draft collar whereas the WMs do. The draft collar can make a pretty huge difference on a cold night. Two, the WM bags have a full-length zipper which gives you what I think can be an important improvement in ventilation.

As they say, YMMV. Cheers-

Brad:
Regarding the draft collar, does Western Mountaineering use Velcro, like the MH Phantom, or does it use a drawcord like the Marmot Helium? BTW, I noticed that the Phantom DOES use the draft collar. Also, you mentioned that MH doesn't use enough down, but the Phantom 15 is listed as having 20 oz of down, more than the other competitors.

I'd like to get my hands on an Alpinlite and Ultralite to compare weights and girths. I feel like the Ultralite would be sufficient for my purposes, but the 59" girth turns me off. I am guessing that the Alpinlite will be close to 2 pounds in weight, and the 64" girth is too big.

A girth of 60-62" would be about perfect.

If anyone can give me actual weights of the Alpinlite and Ultralite, that would be great.

Finally, what does the "Super" behind the Alpinlite mean?