Basic GPS Recommendations?

I have used the Geko for a couple years for Geocaching, mainly. It has held up incredibly well. It's water resistant (stated as waterproof, but i wouldn't trust that 100%) and i've never had an issue with dropping it in a puddle or being it exposed to light rain.

The only thing i can say is that the signal is weak in very dense wooded areas, even with the WAAS enabled. Sometimes it takes almost 5 minutes to acquire a signal which can affect battery life. In that scenario, the battery life drops to around 8 hours.

With that aside, it's a great GPS for simple functionality and simple way-point and path tracking.

I would recommend it for the uses you require. But as always YMMV.

I have the geko 301. What are you intending to do with the "you are here" fix? Do you then want to translate that to your papermap based on UTM or something? I have never tried that, but I don't think that would be very useful. I do like marking waypoints in advance and while on the trail (like of the car) and use the GPS to show my position relative those points.

The Geko is an ok choice, but really out of date. I can usually get a fix, but when tracking will often have that drop out at times in the woods. If you are mainly above treeline in Co, maybe that won't be a problem for you. But if buying today, I would want a high sensitivity receiver. I would also want USB and not serial for the computer hookup.

The running/biking garmins are worth looking at too. The new forerunners come with the high sensitivity receiver, but I don't think you can take the wrist band off. The edge looks nice (online), and almost like the Geko, but reading the specs it seems to me that only having 100 waypoints is pretty limiting. I would at least check out the edge and its features before buying a geko these days.

Michael –
'What are you intending to do with the "you are here" fix?'
. Either stay 'found', or get 'un-lost'

'But if buying today, I would want a high sensitivity receiver.'
. Such as…..? Both the 201 and eTrex are WAAS
. And, what are the key words or acronyms for 'Latest High Sensitivity Receiver" ?

'I would also want USB and not serial for the computer hookup.'
. Excellent point! especially if I do decide to enter routes.

I'll take a look at the newer models again

Thanks

There is a usb cable available for the 301. I have it and use it along with Nat. Geographic software, works great. I use mine mainly to double check where I think I am if having doubts. Backup navigator. Been happy with the 301.

I forgot the that the basic etrex H has the "high sensitivity" receiver. WAAS is something different (the geko has WAAS too). But if you are carrying the weight of the etrex you might as well get the onboard maps of the venture/legend/vista H series models (the H indicates the high sensitivity receiver).

Although possible, I don't think the process of reading your location in UTM and then translating to a position on a paper map is that useful. Much better is having the go to arrow point at a waypoint: you can tell at a glance which way to go, or can glance at your map and guess at your position. That requires setting waypoints (easy to do though, but mostly done at home) Having a position on the gps basemap would be even easier.

…

http://www8.garmin.com/aboutGPS/waas.html

"Okay, so what the heck is it? Basically, it's a system of satellites and ground stations that provide GPS signal corrections, giving you even better position accuracy. How much better? Try an average of up to five times better. A WAAS-capable receiver can give you a position accuracy of better than three meters 95 percent of the time."

I'm not positive all low end GPS units are WAAS enabled although in this case it's "ideal for open land and marine applications" so it's still not that impressive.

Just clarifying that point. It IS a big difference. I've used the geko 101 and it's much worse than the 201.

If you'll be in wooded areas, get a high sensitivity GPS.

I've got a Gecko 301 which works great for most stuff here in Colorado where I now live but back where I grew up in Missouri you can only get syncs in the clearings. On the plus side, the geckos do spit out UTM for quick map reconsiliation. Just make sure to print UTM on your maps and it's actually pretty fast.

Unfortunately if you don't have UTM on your map, figuring out where the heck you are can be problematic unless your leaving it on and to let the GPS make trails. But hey, the geckos have very decent battery life and pair them up with rechargables and you can bring back a trail map to play with on the PC.

"Although possible, I don't think the process of reading your location in UTM and then translating to a position on a paper map is that useful."

I couldn't disagree more with this statement. I've been using my GPS devices in this way since 1996 when I got my first Garmin device, before maps could be loaded into a GPS device.

I prefer to navigate with a paper map for a variety of reasons. Transfering UTM grid coordinates from a GPS to the map is very easy especially if using a UTM template and also very accurate. I use drinking/snacking breaks as a time to do this and integrate the time it takes to do this into my walking routine. I find taking the time to do this provides me with a very good appreciation for where I am, where I have been and where I need to go. It's a small part of the navigation process.

I also use waypoints pre loaded ahead of time and also collect waypoints as I travel, but my map/compass + UTM location from the GPS and my eyes remain my main source of information.

Paper maps provide much more context, and resolution than small screen maps and I personally prefer to navigate using my senses rather than following an arrow on a screen. In a whiteout when needing to find exit gullys, couloirs or not wandering off trail in feaureless areas it's a different story and these features are very useful, but for days when visibility is good it's not necessary.

I wish that a very small, light affordable location + waypoint collecting very sensitive GPS receiver was available. The Geko devices are getting old.

I agree mostly with Martin. BPL'ers have gone heavy on the gps units. The garmin foretrex 101 is still a great gps. You don't need a H receiver to get a fix in reasonable tree cover.

Even with UTM, you don't need a grid to eyeball the coordinates.

If buying again I would get a garmin geko 301 or foretrex 101. Don't need no mapping or H gps. The geko 201 had issues in the past with battery life.

If you are going to do tracks, where you leave the gps on all the time to record your hike, then DO go with a better receiver.

…

For his application of no map interface and no tracking, you do not need a high sensitivity receiver. I have been using the garmin geko 301 and foretrex 101 for about three years and have always been able to get a fix in the Arkansas woods.

One thing though, if you are not going to use a UTM gridded map, then don't take my advice. Transferring lat/long coordinates would be a drag to me.

Hey All,
Thanks for the input so far…

Most of my travels are on well defined trails, hence no need, or in open the West, so reception shouldn't be a big deal. I'm pretty much a map,compass, and "know where you are" navigator, so for the occasional acquisition and fix I think I'll be OK.

The NatGeo Trails Illustrated hard maps are LatLon as well as UTM. The Topo software can lay a 1000 meter UTM grid over any area of interest, so I think I'm OK there.

But you do have me thinking about the possibility of following overland (pass-to-pass) routes waypointed in Topo. That Could require frequent acquisition, if I'm feeling less than confident about my map skills.

I appreciate the insights.
Thanks.

.

Greg, and other 301 users.

Do you find the Geko's altimeter function useful. Is it worth the extra price of the 301?

In Colorado I personally find it very useful. It helps me plan weather changes as well as locate myself when using a trail map without UTM marked. It also gives me indicator at how fast gaining elevation so I can pace myself on acclimation. Out here of course, many hikers brag about any activity that altitude affects you.

If you work in higher elevations, it can be very useful for planning. I can benchmark trips; for instance, last week I hiked a 6.5 mile out and back but had a total altitude change of nearly 5K. During the trip I monitored my performance level (mph) at different elevations.

It gives you interesting data at how high you can go before oxygen density (or lack thereof) impacts your performance. It lets me plan physically if I feel that I can attempt various trips without bonking out or worse, running into medical problems. Right now, if I stay under 8K, I can pull a 30 miler, but get me over say 10.5k and I'm slogging around at 1.5mph on flat ground. At 12K I'm gasping and stopping fairly often, above that my thinking gets fuzzy around the edges and I try to limit my exertion level significantly.

In Arkansas or Missouri I only found it useful for curiosity sake or for aiding in map reconsilation.

You do have to calibrate it before relying on it though. If you do it before you leave the house, it's usually good enough for almost any usage.

I find the altimeter on the 301 to be very useful, and I use that at least as much as the GPS function. Since I usually know where I am and where I want to be, knowing my altitude is pretty much at the info I need. It works even if you don't get a lock on the satellites.

I am ambivalent on the electronic compass. I helps orient the gps to the right direction when you are not moving. But I do suspect it drains the batteries. So I may try to off for a while.

There have been great deals on the geko 301 lately, under $100. I will try to remember where I saw that.

mountain gear onsale for $129? Not sure if that is what I remembered:
http://www.mountaingear.com/pages/product/product.asp/imanf/Garmin/idesc/geko+301+GPS/Store/MG/item/103644/N/0

the altimeter function is extremely useful in the mountains but get it separate from the gps function unless you're keeping the gps unit on all the time.

It's a bad idea to mix in a same set two functions with so different battery needs. The battery for the typical altimeter watch lasts for many months and the Geko batteries will only last for a few hours at a time.

The altimeter function is something I want to be able to check all the time. It's very useful for navigation and, together with the map, it may be key in low visibility conditions, not only fog but also heavy tree cover or narrow valleys where reference points may be hard to see.

Inaki makes an interesting point, but I am not sure that is true in my experience. The advantage of having the altimeter integrated with the GPS is that the altimeter and the gps can work together. The GPS signal alone can provide altitude, but it is pretty inaccurate +/- 100s of feet. The altimeter can provide altitude, but it needs to be calibrated and can't tell the difference between weather changes and movement up and down the mountain.

It seems to me that if I calibrated the altimeter at the trail head, then turn off the GPS, then turn it back on a few hours later, I get an altimeter reading instantly, before the GPS gets a signal lock. If I get a lock a minute later, the alitude reading may bounce up or down, but I assume that was a result of the GPS lock adjusting the altimeter reading (I think this bounce may affect trip summary date and create error, like for total ascent) Used in this way, turning the Geko on and off a few times a day, the batteries would last weeks or maybe months.

The advantage described by Inaki would be if you need to navigate by continual reference to an elevation, say traversing a slope at a certain elevation. But I don't do that very often, and most of the time you could use dead reckoning to follow the contour line as best you can, checking the altimeter/gps when necessary.

as far as route finding goes, the gps and the (barometric) altimeter may work together too when the altimeter is on your wristwatch with the obvious advantage that's available 24/7 which is essential if you actually use your altimeter for route finding.

it all depends on how you use your tools but in general it's better to join in a same set functions with similar battery needs (watch + barometric altimeter or gps + electronic compass) and not the other way around.

and by the way:

> I wish that a very small, light affordable location + waypoint collecting very sensitive GPS receiver was available. The Geko devices are getting old.

same here. I guess they don't see the market for it but it's been several years already with nothing worth noting in this field.

The gekos are old is right. I am surprised they have not upgraded the receiver.

Given the availability of very small GPS chips and cheap electronic MFG in Asia it surprises me this is not yet available. The engineering required to put something like this together should be fairly basic. GPS data loggers are available OTS for very little money already. This sounds like a good MYOG project for someone with some tech skills. Or something BPL could run with, no pun intended.

A quick google search reveals this:
http://www.gpskit.nl/index-en.htm

> I wish that a very small, light affordable location + waypoint collecting very sensitive GPS receiver was available. The Geko devices are getting old.

same here. I guess they don't see the market for it but it's been several years already with nothing worth noting in this field.

To give you an idea of how small a sensitive GPS receiver can be take a look at:

Slimline240 BlueTooth GPS Receiver

M-1200 BlueTooth GPS Receiver

I’ve got the slim 240 and it’s the shape of a flash drive just a little thicker and it’s got a internal rechargable batter that lasts around 10 hours. It has a SiRF Star III chip. It syncs via blue tooth so I use it for both car and around town navigation with my smartphone.

If only we could add in a tiny screen that read out it’s UTM coordinates.

that's it. And trade that battery for a AAA.
I think I'd still prefer a way to upload waypoints and a goto function but it could be indeed as minimal as a simple UTM coords display.