When have you gone too light?

>>…I personally cant bring myself to call them backpackers. They have to be carrying something of substance on their back. Otherwise, to me they are just hikers or trail runners.

You don't have to call me a backpacker, Eric. Hiker is just fine. Walker works for me too. Free and easy wanderer is even better.

Eric suffers from severe recalcitrant ultralight envy. He is confused now that he has been exposed to such a great new way of "backpacking" that he doesn't know how to act. He trys to argue his way out of the situation, but it only gets worse. There is no cure except to succumb and GOLITE!!!!!!

What's in a name? that which we call a "load… so light, as to become negligible"
By any other name would feel as sweet;
So SUL backpacking would, were it not SUL backpacking call'd,
Retain that dear perfection which it owes
Without that title:–SUL backpacking, doff thy name;
And for that name, which is no part of thee,
Take all my spinnaker.

I think some get confused when reading about different trips with different goals. There seem to me to be at least three categories of light backpacking.

SELF-SUFFICIENT = your plan is to go from point A to point B (or back to A) and carry everything (or cache if it it is A back to A) necessary for your trek BUT go as LIGHT as possible maintaining a high chance of success. Makes more sense the more remote the trek is from places where people live. Examples: JMT, CT, LT, Arctic 1000, segments of both the Great Western Loop and Journey on the Wild Coast.

HYBRID OPPORTUNISTIC = same as self-sufficient EXCEPT you take one or more opportunities, where people live, to resupply between A and B. For example traditional AT, CDT, PCT, etc.

OPPORTUNISTIC = same as hybrid EXCEPT you do something like the following scenario: you drive a car to a trailhead to hike and spend 1 or more nights in the backcountry. You return to your car and drive to another trailhead and repeat previous sentence. Your car may or may not be a gear cache. During multiple days, you might eat at a restaurant and/or might stay in lodging 1 night or more between trailheads.

IMHO,
only humans are concerned with concepts like backpacking purity or self-actualizing challenges. Wild animals don't obsess over gear and will eat whatever they can find. However, we tend to think the wilderness has rules of behavior and friendly creatures when it is only a product of opportunistic survival. A purist gains satisfaction when suffering for the cause while an opportunist eats a cheeseburger.

Ha…Nice Devin, that got a laugh outta me!

And yeah Eric, as Dondo mentioned, I don't think anyone cares what you call them. Labels are fine if you like to organize your world, and everyone organizes it somehow, but ultimately, they don't really matter.

I'm not trying to attack you for speaking about the template which represents backpacking to you, just saying that obviously not everyone shares it. It's great for you to speak about your opinions and try to come up with some other name, but yeah, no matter what you call SULers, they are still the same. It's nice you try to be so organized though! You should maybe work as an archiver or something.

.

>>> cuben fiber hiking skirt

lol – enjoyed your "story"

"SULers are not real backpackers" could probably be a pretty valid statement if we were to take a statistical approach to the issue. SULers are likely 5 or more standard deviations away from the mean backpacker, representing what, < 0.1% of the backpacking population?

However, SUL is to my way of thinking a great inspiration. They (we, you) are extremists who inspire. Are monks/priests/rabbis not real people because they cast off some of the everyday "sins" that the rest of us practice? Or the environmentalists who only bike ride or walk, buy their clothes secondhand, raise all their own food, recycle and reuse, are they not real Americans because they don't consume? Maybe they are not "real" where "real" is some interval around average or usual.

I guess I like the statement a lot! Because, actually, SULers are not REAL BACKPACKERS, and I for one am glad they are not! They are extremely efficient versions of backpackers.

We all make mistakes now and then. Only one rule should be non-negotiable. If it aint fun, stop! Ever woke up on a cold, wet morning thinking, "Who am i trying to impress here?"

“Backpacking (US; tramping, trekking, or bushwalking in other countries) combines hiking and camping in a single trip. A backpacker hikes into the backcountry to spend one or more nights there, and carries supplies and equipment to satisfy sleeping and eating needs” http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Backpacking_%28wilderness%29

This definition may not be universally accepted but I believe it’s a fair one. The comments of someone being described as a SUL and not being a backpacker I feel is unfair. The person who travels into the wilds with his poncho tarp and 11g stove has decided to carry what they needed to satisfy their food, warmth, and shelter needs in undertake their journey (I still don’t understand what happens when it’s raining and you need to make camp, do you just get wet while putting up the shelter?). I am guilty of scorning those daring to wear trail shoes in the hills in the UK viewing them as misguided and wrong. Well I hike often in trail shoes now.

I’ve learnt that going light is fine and I’m for anyone looking to travel light in the hills. I recently was harsh towards those who use tarps in the Scottish Highlands and miss understood their choice of shelter to satisfy their sleeping and other needs while in the hills. I apologised on the forums and learnt to look at others choices with an open mind. What matters is that you have suitable equipment that you have the experience to use

The original question was "when have you gone too light?". My answer is never to date as I follow the rule of being suitably equipped and experienced to undertake the journey I have planned. What is suitably equipped will always be debatable with some. Ask this before setting out, would I be embarrassed if I needed rescuing and the rescue team concluded my equipment choice as a factor in my needing them.

I am sorry if I insulted people, but I am honestly perplexed at how someone can call themselves a backpack-er or say they are going backpack-ing, when their pack weighs 5 lbs. Get real…

BTW I own and use plenty of UL backpacking gear myself, I'm not envious of SULers, Ive done SUL myself. But when I did it, I didn't feel like a backpacker. There have been times when Ive been so minimalist, people criticized me telling me what I was doing was dangerous, etc. They didn't know what they were talking about…I was just at a different level than they were.

Remember…backpacking means somewhere in there, you have to be carrying a backpack on your back. Take that backpack away and like I said, you morph into something else.

I think SULers should develop a different name for themselves to distinguish them from people who actually carry a real backpack.

Eric

Eric,

Lots of backpackers think a real backpack is a 70L, 2.8kg load monster, not a Golite Jam. So define what a real backpack is, and at what point they stop being a real backpack?

>Lots of backpackers think a real backpack is a 70L, 2.8kg >load monster, not a Golite Jam. So define what a real >backpack is, and at what point they stop being a real >backpack?

I think its better to define what is not a real backpack, rather than to try and define what is a real backpack. I think a 5 lb SUL load, plus a little food and water, is not a load that equals a real backpack load.

Eric

Eric,

You say that “ I actually enjoy the "no pain, no gain" feeling I get from strenuous outdoor trips or workouts” That defines your style and aspirations you have in backpacking. Shouldn’t we respect others who don’t see it as we might.

I am no SUL, or ultra light backpacker. I take a tent and have a 1kg Pack which is heavy in many BPL users’ eyes, yet I’m a lightweight backpacker in the eyes of others. We should respect people’s choices in the equipment they chose to enter the wilderness with

Heh..Eric, I don't mean to be rude and trust me when I say I would behave this way with my best friends, my mom, and you, but I have to say, you really make me laugh.

I think it's funny how you come up with these definitions that you use and then expect everyone to understand them and agree with them. A "real backpack"..What in the world are you talking about? I saw how earlier you were talking about the fact that the items could be carried in cargo pants (they can't) so maybe you mean since a backpack isn't necessary (it is) that the backpack one wears isn't a backpack. I really don't even know. You are seriously splitting hairs here.

I mean first you say that SULers aren't backpacking and then you say they aren't wearing backpacks. They ARE wearing backpacks. How can you argue this? What kind of justifications go on in your head? I truly mean no offense, but I think the only one that has to "get real" is you. Seriously, your arguments are terrible. I'm sorry to say this. This forum is usually really passive aggressive, and I'm the last one to ever get involved, but if you want to make a claim, make it well. So far you aren't making any valid points. I'm sorry, but saying "that is not a backpack" when by every definition in the world it is, doesn't work.

I'm truly trying to figure out your thought process. Is it not a backpack because it can't handle enough supplies to last out there for a week (or some other amount of time) without resupply?

So please, Make a case for yourself that goes beyond "because I say so."

And to address the last point, SULers DO have a name that distinguishes them. They are called Super Ultra Light hikers. You've been using this term from the start. It is clear what it means right? Can we not agree that SUL hiker is a term to describe what you are talking about?

Edit:
P.S. "I think its better to define what is not a real backpack, rather than to try and define what is a real backpack. I think a 5 lb SUL load, plus a little food and water, is not a load that equals a real backpack load."

Eric, you can't define what something is by saying what it is not. That is what 6 year olds do. Can you imagine a game show that goes like this. "Behind this door is a prize that will change your life! We're going to give you a clue and then you'll have 5 minutes to guess what it is. It is NOT a horse."

Would anyone win? No, they wouldn't. They won't win because you can't define what something IS, by saying what it is NOT. That's how things work. It's very simple. You define what something is, by giving characteristics of what it is. So I'll help you:

"My name is Eric and I believe a backpack is a tool that functions using (insert shoulder straps, fabric, whaever goes into the physical characteristics of a backpack) to carry a load that is greater then a base load of 5 lbs plus a little food and water."

That's how defining something works. Note that this is just restating what you said, but with a little more detail, perhaps a load range that it should carry or some other characteristics you think of, you can come up with an actual definition of a backpack in your eyes.

Right on, Roman.

Regardless of how you label them, the folks at the extremes are in the epicenter of innovation. MAybe not all those ideas make it into the mainstream, but plenty do.

I'm old enough to remember when someone with an internal frame pack was an extremist. Or a canister stove. Or the true radical who didn't carry all of the "10 essentials".

My hat is off to those on the cutting edge.

As is my official stance on any matters like this,

Yes, Eric, you are right.

And you're starting to remind me of our old friend VP. To be honest, if it weren't for the red "M" next to your name I would have written you off as a troll a while ago. The jury is still out on the matter though.

Now lets say we stop hi-jacking this thread.

Adam

The cutting edge is fine as long as they respect those who are not, and those who don’t walk at the cutting edge should respect those who do. One thing that makes me lose respect is a blatant disregard for safety which forces others to put their lives on the line to come and rescue people who may not be suitably equipped to be in the wilderness. The SUL approach still needs to be safe.

Put on your boots/trail runners, whatever… pick up your pack at whatever weight, and start walking. That is what it's all about. Get up and get going and stop rearranging the "deck chairs".

Eric,

You actually don't sound like a person speaking from experience. Are you sure you've actually carried a sub-5 pound base weight? Are you sure you've developed the skills and gear list to do so safely and effeciently in a variety of situations? Becuase if you had, I would suspect that you would have a different and more inclusive perspective.

I'd be really curious about your SUL experiences that would lead you to the conclusions you've come to- where you went, what you carried, etc. I'd really appreciate if you shared those because it would shed light on the opinions you're choosing to share.

However, if I'm wrong and you're actually an experience SUL backpacker who's come to these conclusions, then you may have some more specific examples to cite to back up your statements.

Doug

You've got to be kidding, right?

You're either a.) A Troll or B.) in the wrong place. Adpacker would be a better fit for thinking such as yours.

This is Backpacking "LIGHT" ….. not you should carry a bunch of stuff cause it makes me feel better about myself packing.

People come to this site to learn new techniques to better enjoy their backcountry experience ….. not to classify everyone into neat little buckets.

I go SUL and UL because I want to. You can call it anything you want … I still call it backpacking.

With that … You're welcome to contribute … but spare me the solicious diatribe aimed at maintaing excuses for why you don't want to learn anything new …. and don't try to make me reclassify myself to meet your short sighted viewpoints.

I DO think there is ONE element to be a "real" backpacker. You should carry everything you need to stay out overnight in the backcountry (and actually stay out).

I once had a heated debate with someone who insisted that if you dayhiked with a pack, you were a backpacker, even if you were only dayhiking for a couple of miles. There is a point at which definitions are important or a language ceases to be relevant, and any one can say any thing and imply it means something else.

However, SUL'ers DO carry what they need to stay out, so yeah, they're backpackers by the definition I use.

Stop feeding the trolls. Just encourages 'em.

There are many places in NZ where it is easy to go SUL and call it 'backpacking'. There are many multi-day trips which have huts well spaced along them. Many of the more popular tracks can provide you with a bunk and a gas cooker. You need only carry sleeping bag (doesn't have to be a very warm one in a heated hut), clothes and food to get by very safely as long as you don't get caught out in bad weather or swollen rivers (or lost…). I don't see what the weight of the pack has to do with whether or not you call it 'backpacking'. Here we just call it tramping :)

NB: On a few of the tracks you can even hire a guide to carry your pack and cook your meals for you. It's still 'tramping' but it's pushing the boundaries of backpacking IMHO. However, since this has allowed my 75 year old mother to hike one of the world's greatest 4 day walks, I can't knock it either. The point of it all is to get out there and have an adventure.

After reading this thread I was concerned, confused & scared since I use a “backpack” from Mountain Laurel Designs that weights around 5 1/2 oz’s on weekends for 4 months of the year (June through Sept.)

It has straps on the front
I load equipment in the part that goes behind me (on my back)
I usually put items in it for camping after hiking, but I really don’t need much heavy equipment after reading
all the very helpful material on this website

Can somebody tell me what the heck I’m doing for extended periods of time (at least 36 hours) in the woods while I enjoy walking up hills and then sleeping outside without a bunch of heavy items?

Thanks for your help in advance

Walking with little, light weight stuff behind me on my back & going up hill and camping out man/person
Jim