Why people gotta hate on the UL crowd?

Ya it confuses me too.
You would think people like Skurka and Tapon had educated peolpe a little bit, and than some REI hipster makes a comment like that.
Then people say we are all into "fast and light" and they like to take thier time and have thier comforts.
-you cant win.
And have you heard people say ultralighters beg for food and dont carry maps or shelters? Where are they getting this stuff?
I say they are newbie posers. How else could you backpack and be so ignorant of something as simple as keeping your pack wieght down?

Gear shop employees are notoriously snotty. Being around all that expensive hardwear while only making $8 and hour tends to make them cranky (I know, I used to be one) In essence you get paid to be a know it all when you probably would prefer to be out in the hills.

There'll always be someone who wants to diss what they don't understand (and I don't need to lose weight either, at least not of my body, summer of sub 5 anyone?)

What kind of bags did you get?

"Yeah – we sometimes get those kind of people in, and they usually look like they need to lose 30lbs"

Sounds like the salesman was just making a joke

I thought it was funny too…

I probably shouldn't jump in on this, especially just a few hours before I drop off the net for a week but no matter how hard I bite my tongue, sometimes it slips loose …

In the lyrics below, pls focus on the words "Singing songs and they carrying signs, Mostly say, hooray for our side"

That is exactly what the folks you say "hate us" are doing and that is also exactly what threads like this are doing.

Let's spend this energy on:
1) advancing ultralight technique and knowledge
2) showing folks how it is done (many more lessons are "caught" that are "taught")

'nuff said

edit: OH S**T … I bet that is copyrighted …. I'll clip most of it.

For What it's Worth (Stephen Stills, 1966)

…
What a field-day for the heat
A thousand people in the street
Singing songs and they carrying signs
Mostly say, hooray for our side
…

1) I am 30 lbs overweight.
2) By cutting the handle short and drilling lightening holes in my childrens tooth brush, I've gotten it down to 3 grams.
Which makes the extra body weight I'm carrying the equivalent of 4540 toothbrushes.

This does seem a bit silly. However, a light pack helps me have fun and achieve my goals when I'm light and when I'm heavy; but most importantly It's my hobby. As illogical human activities go, it's a fairly benign one.

If these clerks can't be polite to their customers, they should get another job to fund their own obsessive passions.

When I get around to taking tweezers and wire clippers to my toothbrush to remove every other bristle…then you can make fun of me.

> Gear shop employees are notoriously snotty. Being around all that expensive hardwear while only making $8
Not snotty, but their living and income depends on persuading you to buy as much gear as possible. Big boots are much cheaper than light joggers, and the attitude carries over.

I used to be one aswell until 6months ago.

I used to cop a bit of stick from fellow employers for thinking alot about the weights of gear. Most of them (its worse in Aus, and its complicated over here) are unaware of ultralighting.

There was a guy that came into the store alot, that we dubbed "Golite man" (he was always wearing UL clothing and gear in the middle of the city). He would come in often and ask random questions about new gear on the market (most of it US gear) and whether we were getting it in or not, and generally waste alot of staff time. He never bought anything from the store, we knew it, and it was really annoying. He knew that we would never stock it, and that in Australia we only get a handful of the ranges of most US gear manufacturers from our suppliers.

I really enjoy helping customers and often used to get letters sent to the store thanking me for service, but this guy did annoy me. I dont mind people that come in and use half an hour or so of my time and then dont buy anything…they need help and its my job to give them the best advice possible…even if it means they go to another store to find something that works for them properly. This guy though knew his gear, and with the items he often talked about, probably better than me.

Most ultralighters know alot more about the intracacies of gear than gear store employees. Its a fact of life-we are gear freaks to the extreme. If you know about a piece of gear and don't need any help, then let staff know straight away when they approach you and don't drag out conversation where you establish really nothing other than the fact that they aren't "UL".

This may be what that store employee has experienced in the past with "Ultralighters". It's quite possible he wasn't annoyed with you at all.

But I don't miss "golite man" since I stopped working there. Thankfully(???), he is probably the only ultralighter in Adelaide, South Australia, apart from me.

The only question I ever ask is if something is in stock – I used to argue with them back in the day…I once recommended the Patagonia Ready Mix to a gentlemen at an MEC who was browsing the softshells. The employee helping him promptly asked which Summits I had climbed. I told him I don't really climb mountains – at which point he informed me he had climbed Kilamanjaro. I just left and watched him buy a $650 Arcteryx for his overnighter in November.

Brian Maynard wrote:
"And have you heard people say ultralighters beg for food and dont carry maps or shelters? Where are they getting this stuff?"

It's called the Appalachian Trail where a small but very obvious minority stay only in the shelters along the trail, insist that with solid blazing it is "stupid" to carry the weight of maps, and who routinely hint while at shelters that someone else's dinner looks MUCH better than their energy bar.

It's very much overdramatized, but it does happen, and then the word gets out on the trail grapevine very quickly.

Man, there is a whole backpacking culture that I know absolutley nothing about. Until I came to this site I didn't even understand the concept of thru-hiking. To think of hanging out in shelters with other people, and having "word spread" along the trail is just weird. It's probably because the closest major "thorough-fare" to me is the CDT, and I've only been there once. I'm used to seeing two, maybe three people on a hike.

The MEC on Broadway in Vancouver is brutal for snotty, knowitall employees who cling to the old school relentlessly.

I'm sure they get their fair share of one-night-a-year yuppies in there wanting to buy ridiculous kit, but a little humility would still go a long way.

Fortunately their gear selection effectively excludes lightweight backpackers anyway… I doubt they even sell a daypack that's under 3 pounds. They quit carrying the Snow Peak 4 oz fuel canisters, their "backpacking" footwear section looks like a 1970's workboot collection, and they refuse to carry progressive mainstream brands like GL, Montbell, and TNF. The house brand of tents and clothing seems to get heavier and less efficient compared to modern gear with each passing year.

The good news is that it's not too hard to get to the hut first in the mountains of Canada. Canadians (being by-and-large a more practical, more conservative lot) just love their 50lb packs.

I thought EVERYBODY traded up on food! I'm famous among my friends for that…and it didn't start when I went ultralight either.

It's not call ultralight, it's called lazy!

Anybody want to trade some tamarind almonds and Swedish fish for my Gu?

:-)

Doug – Wasn't that 3rd grade lunch when you tried to trade your baloney sandwich for my applesauce and hot thermos of Spagetti-os with weiners??

You all seem surprised at this.

You'll be persecuted for your faith. Stay the course!

Long live UL!

>Originally posted by jcolten<
"I probably shouldn't jump in on this, especially just a few hours before I drop off the net for a week but no matter how hard I bite my tongue, sometimes it slips loose …

In the lyrics below, pls focus on the words "Singing songs and they carrying signs, Mostly say, hooray for our side"

That is exactly what the folks you say "hate us" are doing and that is also exactly what threads like this are doing.

Let's spend this energy on:
1) advancing ultralight technique and knowledge
2) showing folks how it is done (many more lessons are "caught" that are "taught")

'nuff said"

I couldn't agree more.
It's not like UL hikers don't spout off about how superior lightweight hiking is. Be compassionate to those who don't yet understand the advantages, teach them when you are able, and live and let live. Someone wiser than I once said: "We fear the most what we least understand."

As Ryan H said:
>Let's spend this energy on:
1) advancing ultralight technique and knowledge
2) showing folks how it is done (many more lessons are "caught" that are "taught")<

I agree.

Just know that UL is not for everyone and be the shining "light" that inspires others.
The more one tries to enforce one's opinion on others, the more resistance is created.
When I first came to this site,my pack was 50#+ base weight. Now 12# winter and 7# summer base.
If they choose not to see the light, do not preach, just have pity on them in silence and keep on walking.

I agree with the previous. Why do we seem surprised when someone bags us for what we do when we continually bag them? We even can each other for doing things and the forums demonstrate that. Everyone should take a breath and get out there and enjoy themselves by whatever means they like.
As far as being accused of taking risks there is one thing that I take with me and it increases each time I go bush. That is a lifetime of experience and bushcraft.
The best ting is, it weighs nothing.
Darren

I was under the impression that this thread was just about venting fustration about why some people give us greif, not about us bashing anyone else. Ive never a said word to anybody about what they carry. I dont even try to convert anyone or even bring it up- if someone asks questions Ill be happy to answer, but if someone gives gives me sh#t about it Im giving it right back!

.

In fact the original joke brings up a genuine advantage of lightweight backpacking- if you are overweight, it helps the weekend trips and training runs become much less daunting, as the total weight on your legs remains manageable. I am still at the beginning as regards physical conditioning, and a light pack helps me do stuff anyway- which in turn will help my physical condition.

Be thankful for people hating on you…the lower your cultural status, the more likely you are to be left alone to do your own thing- which if you're in the habit of walking out into the mountains, is maybe what you really want…

…when lightweight backpacking becomes cool, it'll be a burden on the mind far greater than the exhaustion of lugging a 50lb pack.

…

Amen Mike.

Lightweight Backpacker is a label like any other. If you label yourself, you're choosing to bring out peoples' preconceptions and prejudices.

Instead of saying "I'm a LWB", say "My pack's too heavy and I'm looking for a jacket that weighs less". They're both true, but only one forces images of a stereotype into the person's mind.

I think that the gear companies have spent so long drilling the "more is safer" mantra into peoples' heads that the inverse ("less is less safe") becomes apparently true as well. More weight, more durability, more features, more cost — all of these things are equated with security. So by extension, less of those things on your back must mean you are reckless, foolhardy, and uninformed — right?

I don't go into the store and "announce" my style, I think I end up mentioning it semi-subconsciously because I just really really want to talk gear with someone. (No offense Forum Users, it's just that actual conversation is nice every once in a while). Since I don't know a single other person who is into UL, I end up unloading on my wife who could really care less, but listens. I guess I just have the hope that the store employee is a gear fiend as well and might want to talk about Montbell or Golite products over more mainstream stuff.

I feel you about having someone to converse with. Sometimes it is nice to shoot the sh$t with someone. When I talk to my wife about things like more than 1 backpack, she just doesn't get why you might want different packs. Told her I want a gatewood cape (poncho to her) for birthday and she says "you already have a poncho". Oh well, she did help me sew my first tarp tent so I guess I should not complain too much.