Clueless “experts” at Backpacker

I've never understood why people build rock fire rings just to have a fire. If you are going to have a fire off trail somewhere, just build it without a rock ring. After you are done, dump water and crush it down to ash/powder with your shoes. Then cover with dirt. Pretty easy to do. I see fire rings all over in inappropriate places. It's like littering. Trail camps, near lakes, all good places for a fire ring.

IF you are going to build a fire I do not see anything wrong with this video. Using rocks to make a fire ring should probably be replaced with a different method, but that is what has been taught thus far. He disassembles the fire ring and puts the area back the way it was. So, IF you are going to build a fire I see nothing wrong with his methods. This isn't allowed in Yosemite, but he isn't there…

And to the places where this is illegal, you can add Kings Canyon, Sequoia, Stanislaus National Forest, Tahoe National Forest, every major wilderness California, Washington, Oregon…etc. etc etc.

Where what is illegal?

Where what is illegal? Building fires.

Building fires is not illegal in those places. Unless you mean seasonal fire restrictions. Last time I checked fires were not currently banned in the emigrant wilderness or in seki.

"This video pretty much violates every principle of LNT…" Really? I don't make fires, but that's a lil over the top.

Perhaps Backpacker should introduce folks to the notion that campfires aren't essential to the camping experience. The widely popular meme has it that you aren't really camping if you don't have a campfire. This powerful meme has people building campfires even when they don't need them for warmth or to cook. Most of us carry warm clothes, shelter and a stove, and really don't need a fire. The other thing that strikes me about the video is that it demonstrates building a fire in ideal conditions. Build a fire with wet wood when it's cold and windy, using limited tinder — the conditions under which somebody would likely NEED fire-starting skills — and then I'll be impressed.

Labeled under survival techniques. Those people, who read that, and the ones that don't will largely do what they want in the backcountry. Evidence of that behavior abounds. Don't over react.

I agree. Paul's comment was ridiculous. That video is a perfect demonstration of a leave no trace fire. At the end of the video, they show there is very little or no trace of the fire being there. Very responsible and LNT. Unless Paul thinks that all campfires are bad, in that case there is no arguing with him. I just don't get why he build a rock fire ring. But he took it apart after, so whatever.

"The other thing that strikes me about the video is that it demonstrates building a fire in ideal conditions. " Just like the BPL videos. Who wants to film in poor conditions?…

A good example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c90jBC31lrU

Actually, creating a new fire ring is illegal in those areas.

"Last time I checked fires were not currently banned in the emigrant wilderness or in seki." I don't know about Emigrant, but fires are banned in SEKI above 10,000' everywhere that I am aware of, as well they should be. Under current conditions, I'd be surprised if they weren't banned completely. The idea of anyone building a fire at, say, Junction Meadow down in Kern Canyon right now is sheer madness. Even if it isn't, by some bureaucratic lapse, officially banned.

"Actually, creating a new fire ring is illegal in those areas." Do you have a reference for that for TNF?

"A good example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c90jBC31lrU" Excellent! Thanks for posting it, Justin.

but why would you make a fire in the rain? Set up tent, get under it, get in sleeping bag at some point there's no way a fire will keep you drier. Standing in the rain will get you wetter than the fire will dry you out, even if you're successful getting a fire going. maybe if you unexpectedly got stuck out there without a tent

My UK perspective. Campfires..serve NO purpose to backpacking experience…outside of 'history'… Walked past an unattended one at a camp at 10,300 in Wyoming recently; dumb.

I don't agree with fires in places where they pose a danger or where they are not allowed. "Campfires..serve NO purpose to backpacking experience…outside of 'history'…" Backpacking is an experience and to many people fires are part of that experience. Watching a flame at night out in the open is something that as humans we have done almost from the get go. When I am alone I have no desire to make a fire or even to have a real meal at night. With friends, if it is allowed and safe…I like it.

One time I heard a Navajo Indian say that the white man builds a large fire and sits away from it, whereas the Indian builds a small fire and sits close. When it's cold outside and there's no burn ban and firewood is available, I like to build a small fire, especially in the Winter when the days are short and the nights are long. I just let it go out when it's time to go to sleep. No fire rings though.

"When I am alone I have no desire to make a fire or even to have a real meal at night. With friends, if it is allowed and safe…I like it" With islands of wilderness surrounded by civilization rather than the 19th Century reverse of that, it's time we dropped the Mountain Man role. The first question is where you are getting the fuel let alone the danger and the mess. Then you can patch the ember holes in your gear and clean the stink.

"Campfires..serve NO purpose to backpacking experience…outside of 'history'…" That's total bullcrap. They aren't necessary, but campfires can be extremely useful to an ultralight backpacker. I'm mostly past the idea of campfires for fun or for ambiance, no problem camping without a campfire, but I still use campfires extensively as a tool for keeping warm, drying out, and cooking food. "but why would you make a fire in the rain? Set up tent, get under it, get in sleeping bag at some point there's no way a fire will keep you drier. Standing in the rain will get you wetter than the fire will dry you out, even if you're successful getting a fire going." If you have a flat tarp you can build a fire and still hang out under your tarp. No point if you are tenting it. "I don't know about Emigrant, but fires are banned in SEKI above 10,000' everywhere that I am aware of, as well they should be. Under current conditions, I'd be surprised if they weren't banned completely. The idea of anyone building a fire at, say, Junction Meadow down in Kern Canyon right now is sheer madness. Even if it isn't, by some bureaucratic lapse, officially banned." I'm surprised they aren't totally banned as well. I think Emigrant avoids the bans because its' like 90% granite.

Great link, Justin… a thousand times better and more useful than the lame Backpacker video. Ken, back in about 1984 (??) my brother and I were caught out in just such conditions — wet, cold, nasty — in Bankhead NF in Alabama for 3 days straight and really needed a fire to dry things out. Our skills were not as good as this guy's, but we made dry tinder and little-finger sized dry sticks by shaving off the wet bark and got fires going with a Zippo lighter. I'm not "anti-campfire", but as has been mentioned already a couple of times, if you're building a campfire in CA and the other dry areas in the NW, etc, well that's just plain stupid and criminal.

The Inyo National Forest is extending fire restrictions to include all Wilderness Areas of the Inyo National Forest. Previously, campfires were allowed in the Hoover, John Muir, Ansel Adams, Boundary Peak, White Mountains, Golden Trout, and South Sierra Wilderness Areas of the Inyo National Forest. These areas are no longer exempt from fire restrictions.