Soto AMICUS stove

Familiar with Hikin’ Jim’s blog?

Adventures in Stoving

Good for answering all things stoves. Contact Jim and pick his brain for a suitable stove for you.

I've got a Windmaster and love it. I haven't found the removable pot supports to be a problem at at, but then I'm pretty careful with my gear. I'd have to see it in person, but the "spring loaded" pot support arms on the Amicus look a little futzy to me. Regardless, they will definitely fail long before the Windmaster's single, one peice support will :)

I’m a little late to the party on this thread, but I just completed my review of the Soto Windmaster.  I actually like the stove.  I haven’t been blogging much lately, but I have continued (of course, duh, lol) using stoves, the Windmaster chief among them (for upright canister stoves; I have other favorites for alcohol, remote canister, white gas, etc).  I finally got around to writing my review of the Windmaster because… I got an Amicus — which is MSRP $30 less — and wanted to see if it was as good in wind.

As for wind performance, the Windmaster is not as good as something like an MSR Reactor or MSR Windburner (uh, no way), but it is better than any other upright canister stove that I know of. The video in my review is, I think, pretty compelling. Combine the Windmaster with a relatively sheltered spot, and I don’t think you’d see your gas consumption per boil going up the way you can with other upright canister stoves.  In particular, the BRS-3000T seems to have a bad reputation for wind performance (although it is stinking light).

By the way, the Windmaster is the lightest upright canister stove with a piezoelectric ignition that I know of, and Soto’s ignition technology is pretty darned good.  Way better than kludgey Jetboil ignitions (c’mon Jetboil; you’ve had years) although in all fairness, Jetboil has improved some.

I also laugh a bit about how Jetboil brags about the smooth regulator valve on the MiniMo.  “Hey, you can really cook with this thing!”  lol  Soto’s regulator valves have been doing that from day one — and that goes back at least half a decade.  Other stove companies are just now starting to catch up with Soto’s technology on valves, and *no one* can touch the technology of their ignitions.

HJ

I own a WIndmaster and an Amicus. The Amicus is a bit heavier but as far as I can tell has about the same performance.  I was going to post some measurements. Maybe I shall go back and dig out that excel file and do so.

When I take the WIndmaster, I use the bigger 4 pronged optional pot holder for additional stability. I do not think the risk of losing it is that great but it is not zero.

The Amicus seems aimed right at the price point of the (now discontinued?) MSR Pocket Rocket with greater stability and better performance than the Pocket Rocket. I recommend the Amicus to the Boy Scouts who ask for a recommendation.

Yeah, the Amicus is a little bit heavier, 2.9 oz/81 g vs. 2.3 oz/ 67 g for the WindMaster.  I’m sure they’re using fewer lightweight materials.  They brought down the price by $30 from the WindMaster, so they had to do something.  The regulator valve is also gone, but I don’t think that’s a big loss.  I don’t think the average backpacker could tell the difference out in the field.

The PocketRocket is on it’s way out.  The new PocketRocket II is due out in January 2017.  Basically, MSR is taking the PocketRocket and the MicroRocket, folding them into one stove, and eliminating the two old ones.  Apparently their two tiered price structure wasn’t really paying off:

Budget conscious:  PocketRocket at $40 MSRP
Weight conscious:  MicroRocket at $60 MSRP.

I just don’t think the MicroRocket sold well at 150% of the price of the more famous Pocket Rocket.  Too many decent stoves in the $40 range.  Makes more sense to save productions costs by combining the stoves, using the famous Pocket Rocket name, and offering it at a more realistic, more competitive price.

So Soto is being smart with the Amicus to put it down in the $40 range.

I don’t think the Windmaster was selling all that well even though it’s a fine stove.  Why pay $75 when you can get a major brand stove for $40?  That’s nearly double the price.  I really do think the Windmaster is the best upright canister stove on the market (at least in the US), but you’d have to read a lot of reviews and do some research to make that determination.

The question in my mind is whether or not the Amicus will do as well as the WindMaster in wind.  Sure, the Amicus has the same style burner head, but the WindMaster’s head is closer to the pot and is wider which may give it really different wind handling characteristics as compared to the Amicus which has a much greater burner relief (distance from head to pot).

I’m taking it out this weekend, so we’ll see.

HJ

Any updates on the Windmaster vs Amicus?

I’ve got both the Windmaster and the Amicus.  I’ve had the WindMaster for about 4 years and feel pretty confident in its capabilities in wind.  The video in my review of the Soto WindMaster is in my opinion worth seeing.

I’ve had the Amicus for a few weeks now.  I’ve been running it against the Optimus Crux.  Why the Crux?  Well, both the Amicus and the Crux are rated about 10,000 BTU whereas the WindMaster is rated about 1,000 BTU higher, at 11,000 BTU.  I don’t think even in completely still air that the Amicus will keep pace with the WindMaster which has about 110% of the power of the Amicus.  The Crux however should be pretty evenly matched.

I’ve taken the Amicus out each of the last several weekends.  In essentially still air (it’s outdoors, so there will always be some air currents), the Crux and the Amicus appear to be evenly matched.  In head-to-head boil tests, the Crux sometimes comes out ahead, and sometimes the Amicus comes out ahead.  This is about what I’d expect from two stoves closely matched in terms of their BTU output.

However, as soon as a breeze kicks up, the Amicus pulls out ahead.  In one trail this past weekend, the Amicus finished boiling 250 ml of water 30 seconds faster, and in another 35 seconds.  That’s pretty significant considering the small quantity of water that I was boiling. I could see that the flame had a lot more displacement on the Crux than the Amicus.  In addition, I could hear “luffing” on the Crux — basically a noise caused by some of the burner output ports getting blown out and then coming back.  The Amicus made no such noise.  It was pretty clear to me based on boil times, visual observation, and auditory sign, that the Amicus was far less affected by wind.

Now, will the Amicus be as good as the WindMaster?  Maybe, maybe not.  Both have the protected burner — which does appear to work.  But the WindMaster has less burner-to-pot “relief” and a wider head.  Just intuitively, I’d say the WindMaster would be the more wind resistant, but I’ve just begun my testing.

Whether the Amicus is fully as wind resistant as the WindMaster or not, clearly it is more wind resistant than an exposed burner like the Crux.

HJ

I have completed my review of the Amicus.  My conclusion?  Soto really is on to something here.  This stove does handle wind better.  Check out the video in my review.

HJ

Jim,

Great review!  I too love the Soto Windmaster, and also love the detachable pot support. Last trip at 50* ambient air temp, I brought 10 oz of water to boiling in 45 seconds (wide Toaks 900ml pot). Were I required to replace the Windmaster (something I doubt I will have to do for a very long time) I would have to give the Amicus a very close look. At it’s size, quality and performance, it’s quite difficult to consider anything else at that price point.  I suspect I’d buy another Windmaster tho :)

“At it’s size, quality and performance, it’s quite difficult to consider anything else at that price point.”

Yeah, that’s sort of my take on it.  I’m not sure how they can offer this much stove at only $40 to $45, but it hands down beats anything else in it’s class.  It even bests the Gigapower, which albeit a tad heavy, is a classic design.

Other stoves are more compact when you lay them flat in the bottom of your pot (I’m thinking of the LiteMax/SupaLite here), but they have totally open burner heads, burner heads that project flames out to the sides.  The Amicus has a wall around its enclosed burner head and is perforce wider.  But considering the constraint of having to have a wider head because of the wall, Soto did an *amazing* job of making the stove compact.  I just wish it were one ounce lighter.  :)

For those who have the Windmaster and don’t mind the detachable pot support, stick with what you’ve got; you’ve got the better, lighter stove, but if not, the Amicus really is worth a look despite it being a bit overweight.  Hey, for that much stove at that price, something had to give.

HJ

I’ve had the Windmaster for almost 2 years and a couple hundred nights on the trail and not once have I ever misplaced the pot stand. In fact, I never considered that an issue until I recently started reading the concerns about it online. I nest my stove inside my pot. Maybe that’s why I don’t fear losing it? Not trying to be smug, it’s just not an issue to me. I rather like the ability to switch stands in the rare event I want to use a larger pot.

Any thoughts on carbon monoxide production for these stoves? I’m in the market for an upright canister stove and I’ve been eyeing a Litemax until now.

I will ask, but stove companies are normally pretty tight lipped about carbon monoxide numbers.

There’s nothing about the Amicus that makes me say “hey, now wait a minute; that’s going to cause a lot of CO.”  There’s plenty of clearance between the burner and the pot.  CO is often generated by “quenching” which occurs when the ultra hot flames hit the cool (by comparison) surface of the pot.  The pot typically is around the temperature of boiling water — far cooler than the flame.  Oxidation (i.e. burning) requires a fair amount of heat in order for complete combustion to occur.  If the flame hits the pot, it is cooled, and incomplete combustion occurs.  High carbon monoxide emissions are indicative of incomplete combustion.  I see nothing about the Amicus that would cause said incomplete combustion, but that’s hardly definitive.

HJ

Thanks for the explanation.

You’re welcome.  Best I can do at the moment.  Soto hasn’t responded to my email.  It’s possible that their offices may be closed for the holiday already.

HJ

Great review as ever Jim. I’ve added one to the windmaster. Probably excessive but I’m also a big fan. Combining the windmaster with a jetboil sol ti cup makes for an almost disturbingly fast boil time.

Hi, Richie,

I keep hearing that a WindMaster + Jetboil pot is really, really fast, and this makes sense if you look at the BTU ratings of the stove — although there may be more to it than just the BTU ratings.

When I ran the WindMaster against the Micro Regulator, the WindMaster always boiled faster, particularly in wind, which is what one would expect from a stove designed to handle wind, but even in still air, the WindMaster was faster.  The two stoves have identical BTU ratings.  In fact the two stoves are basically the same stove except for the re-engineered burner head on the WindMaster.  My interpretation of this is that the WindMaster is not only more wind resistant but it also has a simply more efficient burner head.  Is the WindMaster’s burner head better than Jetboil’s?  I’m not positive that it is, but the WindMaster does have a more efficient burner head than most.

But let’s look at the BTU ratings:
Non Reg Jetboil – 4500
Regulated Jetboil – 6000
WindMaster – 11000

The typical Jetboil has BTU rating of 4500 to 6000.  That’s how they get their amazing fuel economy. They’re fast because what heat they do output is efficiently transferred to the pot.

On the other hand, the WindMaster has a BTU rating of 11000 — roughly double that of Jetboil burners.

So, if you take a high output stove with an efficient burner head (i.e. the WindMaster) and hook that up with an efficient heat exchanger pot (i.e. a Jetboil), look out!  You’ll probably come to a boil before you even turn on the stove…  Well, OK, maybe not that fast, but it’s going to be pretty dog gone fast.  Be aware, though, that you *might* be paying a price, in fuel, for that speed.

While Jetboils (except for the Joule) sort of force fuel economy on you by giving you a burner that has no more than a 6000 BTU output, the WindMaster is a stove you have to “put your big boy pants on” for.  If you want to burn through fuel at a profligate rate, it will go right ahead and let you.  You yourself have to control the rather high output of the WindMaster if you want fuel economy.  However, it’d be a danged good snow melter when hooked up with a JB pot.

HJ

I would have reservations using the Windmaster full on with the JetBoil pot.  You are essentially trying to transfer nearly double the heat output through the fins.  I suspect that the little fins are getting a pretty serious thermal strain.  There may be a very good reason JetBoil stoves only put out 6000 BTUs. My 2 cents.

It seems to handle it ok. I figured I did it with the brs3000t so I’d give it a go. I’ve just balanced it on the bottom of the jetboil pot rather than wedging it up in the fins or with the ti foil ring. The fins didn’t suffer at all. I was a little concerned about melting the sleeve, but as long as you get it off the boil quickly.

It probably isn’t the most efficient boil, but was more an experiment than anything else. Net even sure i turned it on full to boil 500ml in 45 seconds or so. But don’t quote me on that as it’s just from memory.

@jonfong What would your concern be?  That the fins would melt and fall off the stove like they did with the Sol Ti?  Or is it more that they would anneal (i.e. soften)?

HJ

Jim,

The high heat differential would put a lot of stress across the weld joint.  This could cause premature failure of the thermal contact.  My 2 cents.

Which would in turn stop the HX from conducting heat to the pot properly.

OK, yeah, that would be bad.

I never run a stove on high, but that is something to keep in mind with a WindMaster.

HJ

Old thread, but curious what HJ and others might consider a good sized pot for the Soto Amicus?  I got the stove on Massdrop and used it once with a larger Evernew 1.3L pot.  I wanted to cobble together a lightweight solo+ kit for my son.

I was thinking about something in the 800-1L range.  I have an old Snow Peak mini-solo kit with a narrow pot and was considering something wider like an MSR Titan Kettle or Evernew 900 ml range.  I used to have an Olicamp XTS pot, but I’m looking for something lighter.

Nesting with a small canister is interesting info, but I was looking more for the right diameter pot for this stove’s flame pattern.  I often include the stove, but not the fuel in the pot, ideally with a cup/mug and folding spork and lighter.

ideas appreciated.

Bob:

The Amicus is often bundled by SOTO into a 1 liter pot + stove kit. The stove has pretty good support for pots. So I think any of your pots will work.  I have used mine with my 0.85liter? MSR titan kettle and the Snow Peak solo kit with tall narrow 0.9 liter? pot.  They all work fine.
Cheers