Would you wear this on a Sierra trip?

[Tom D.]

"I don't see a problem with the lack of breathability. It's not like the breathable jackets breathe much at all and it's not that long ago that rain jackets were all non-breathable like this one."

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Inaki makes a very good point here. Even with todays modern material, I have yet to find a rain jacket that is truly breathable yet water resistant enough to keep the rain out over several hours. I found that every one I've tried builds up condensation during times of exertion. For me anyway, I've found that the only way to minimize the condensation is to use the openings on the jacket or poncho to allow air to flow through.

On my last JMT hike, the poncho and Gatewood Cape people seemed to make out better than most. None wetted out that I talked to, all had their packs covered by the poncho, and they made good time while walking. The guy I saw with a GC used his trekking poles and only had his hands sticking out the opening, which seemed no more exposed than hands sticking out the end of a jacket sleeve. The ones that fared the worst were the ones who brought only wind jackets, and there was a few of them. I saw one guy shivering while scrambling to set up camp to ride out the rain on the south side of Mather Pass.

I used a Dri-Ducks jacket and was very happy with it, kept me dry the whole time. But even the material on that did not breathe very well.

To be honest, I think that Cloud Cape would probably do fine. I had never seen one before and it looked small when I first saw the picture. When used in conjunction with something to cover the lower parts, I'd expect that it would fare as well as a poncho, except that it wouldn't cover the pack.

[Diane “Piper” Soini]

To offer an opposing experience against the dire warnings of hypothermia. I have:

– Hiked the entire state of Washington on the PCT without a rain jacket at all. It rained or the plants were wet more than half the month I was there. I had rain chaps and an umbrella but the umbrella did not keep my lower arms dry and it didn't keep my body dry because plants kept smacking me in the face and chest. I tried wearing a plastic bag but got wetter inside the bag than without it. There were a few days in the 40s and raining where I would get numb hands if I stopped walking so I didn't stop.

– Hiked a section of the PCT in Southern California without a rain jacket or an umbrella. It was cold rain with snow at higher elevation and it was very windy at lower elevation. I would get numb if I stopped hiking so I only stopped once when I came upon someone with a campfire going. I wrapped my polycryo ground sheet around myself, hiked as fast as I could, and sometimes I ran, and was fine.

– Hiked a day in the Los Padres with a rain poncho that lasted about 5 minutes before there was nothing left except a little shred hanging in the front. It was March and cold rain. I was completely drenched. I was close to real hypothermia. I hiked several miles to a place where I could set up my tent and get inside. I set up my tent without being able to use my hands. I shivered for a long time before I was warm. I wore my polycryo and z-rest wrapped around my torso on the way out the next day to stay warm in my wet clothes.

You aren't even sure it will rain. Your arm-less cuben fiber jacket is better rain gear than my three experiences. You certainly won't die, and I doubt you'll be as cold or miserable as I've been. Worst case is you might have wet forearms.

[Billy Ray]

Piper…

"You certainly won't die"
Actually, in the long run you are wrong. We ALL die.
In the short run you don't know that either.
People actually HAVE died hiking/backpacking from not having enough/proper clothing to keep them from getting hypothermia… and it seems you were flirting with such a situation yourself. When you cut things as close as you describe in your post, all it takes is one or two critical things to go wrong… and you are dead… like, what if when you were so cold and wet you slipped and fell and broke a leg and could no longer move enough to keep yourself warm???? Or just got sick and couldn't hike? Personally, I think some people cut things too close just to save a few ounces.
Just this afternoon I encountered two PCT hikers out in rain and hail with temps in the 30's… they were both soaked due to ultralight rain gear that had wetted out… pretty cold fellows. A few years ago, not far from where I encountered these two guys, someone was in a similar situation and got caught up in a freak summer snow storm and white out. That person did not live to tell the tale. Just sayin'… it's good to pay the price of a few ounces for a margin of safety.

billy

[jscott]

Piper writes, essentially, "Let me tell you about several times that I flirted with hypothermia. Happens to me on a regular basis. So, yeah, take the minimal rain gear, that's what I'd do." Oh "I hiked the entire pct in Washington state without a rain jacket"…used bread wrappers or something. I grew up hiking and working during the summers in the Cascades and Olympics. Not carrying rain gear in the pnw is just…just…

Ben, did you read the bits about Snow closing 120, temps in the low 30's, rain for days on end all this month, etc.? again, my Rab performs great in cold sleet; it does not wet out from the inside. I disagree that Event is eventually as worthless as a piece of plastic. But even if that's true, if it gets you through a critical three or four hours, it's worth it.

You seem pretty set on the Cuben though.

[Katherine .]

OK, I'm super cautious and would probably bring both. But wouldn't you put more trust in something fully waterproof, not prone to wetting out, rather than a WPB jacket that will eventually wet out?

[Justin Baker]

You guys really need to define "wetting out". Do you mean water leaking through the jacket, the outer fabric absorbing water, or your clothing get soaked from perspiration?

[Inaki Diaz de Etura]

Indeed, Cuben will certainly not let any water in through the fabric, it's a monolithic film. In that sense, it's safer than any microporous membrane. Cuben will not let any water out either though. It works best in cold temps but this actually applies to any waterproof. In any case, a Cuben jacket only makes sense as a part of a team. A well designed clothing system with a Cuben jacket as the waterproof layer may make good sense and work perfectly well.

[Billy Ray]

" Cuben will certainly not let any water in through the fabric"

I have several Cuben items… they all seem to develop leaks easily from abrasion or puncture… they certainly do let water through the fabric…

A cuben jacket under the constant friction of a backpack would surely leak at some point.. it's just a matter of when.

Billy

[David Chenault]

Ben, I wouldn't use that on a Sierra trip because I'd never buy it. Not versatile enough.

That said, it sounds like you've used the Cloudcape with success, and with that being the case I bet you'd be fine if you brought it. You might get wet and/or cold occasionally, maybe more than occasionally if the weather is exceptionally wet. Only you can decide if you have the skills and mental capacity to deal with the compromises a not-full raingear set brings.

If you were taking it to SE Alaska the doom and gloom would be appropriate. For summer in the Sierra a Cloudcape/kilt is well within the standards of safety.

[Sam Riggle]

I think the doom and gloom is because of the recent weather over there..? Hell, I've never even hiked in the Sierras, so I don't know for sure, but I read a LOT of stuff about it and it just seems that things can get real bad, real quick. So, my posts came from that, and the news of the recent weather. I want to hike the Sierra more than anywhere else at the moment.

But, I think the cape, a super light fleece, and rain pants (plus your normal layers you'd take) would be a good set up. I'm against the skirt because of the off trail you said you may encounter. BUT!, the rain pants can be for warmth at night! So the weight difference would be minor.

Who am I kidding, I don't know what I'm talking about. :)

[jscott]

I don't understand taking a skimpy rain jacket to save on weight, and then fleece to back it up. Why not one good jacket and leave the fleece at home? Especially 'a super light fleece' which is one of those compromise items: not really warm but light. The fleece plus skimpy jacket will weigh more than the Rab. Why not bring a down vest or something that will weigh as little as the fleece but will actually keep you warm.

Of course if you're bringing the fleece anyway, disregard this. But then, shouldn't the discussion be about the merits of fleece? (Fleece in wet conditions is understandable.)

[Sam Riggle]

According to the recent weather reports posted previously in this thread, I would recommend taking a fleece. Which is why I recommended that set up. I would put a fleece in my pack in a heartbeat if I thought I may need it. 8 or so ounces won't ruin my trip. But I usually post as if I was the one taking the trip So my posts are clearly just my opinion.

So, Yes, it may be better to just take a different jacket, but he posted about this one, so why not build a theoretical layering system incorporating it? He knows the potential risks, and other options, so i figured we might as well discuss ways in which to "allow" him to take the cape and be comfortable and confident in both his choice and on the trail. I don't know if that's the right direction to take it, but since it seems he would like to take it, I figured it wouldn't hurt. You know?

[Diane “Piper” Soini]

My point is that short-sleeved cuben fiber rain jacket is more rain gear than I've had on some of my worst experiences. If I'd had a short-sleeved cuben fiber rain jacket I would have done way better. Probably been comfortable, actually. I usually have to pull my rain pants/chaps up above my knees. Perhaps I should try pulling my rain jacket to my elbows sometime.

[Inaki Diaz de Etura]

A light fleece has a place in a layering system regardless of the waterproof garment choice. And down is no substitute for fleece, they fill different roles. Fleece is best when active, more so if it's wet. The fleece plus skimpy jacket may weight more than the Rab jacket (maybe not) but they will deliver more functionality. This is basic layering theory.
Back into main topic, a minimalist waterproof jacket like the one discussed here (I'd use full sleeves though) may work very well in a well designed layering system.

[Ben C]

I got enough dire warnings that I decided not to take the Cloud Cape. I took driducks instead. As it turned out, the weather was great. I never got rained on. I would have been fine without any rain protection. So I add no insight on how useful this Cloud Cape is. I will post a few photos later, as it was a beautiful trip.

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