Would you wear this on a Sierra trip?

Ben, don't get me wrong, I think the cape is freaking awesome. I would love to have one. I honestly think the cape plus kilt would be better than a poncho. Especially in the wind. I just don't know if it's the right choice for a 9 day Sierra trip. A 4 day trip without rain forecasted? Definitely take it. But the weather forecast gets unreliable after 6 or so days. Maybe fewer.

You could take the cape, but also take the lightest jacket you have that you know will keep you dry and comfortable. Use the cape so you get experience with it in high altitude mountainous conditions, but have the other jacket in case the cape doesn't work out. I mean, will the weight really kill you? No, but the weather may. Just an option. (This is actually what I would probably do rather than trying to test it out on a walk around the block)

Anyway, Sorry to sound so doom and gloom. I just don't want to tell you to go for it and use it, And then for you to get hypothermia because of it. So laying out the risks and other possibilities makes me feel better. Not being selfish, just want to make sure you know the risk/reward aspect.

The cape is made of 1.2(?) oz Cuben, so it's definitely bomber. As long as you know what could happen out there and accept the risk/ have the experience, then by all means, use the Cloud set up. Like I said, I would love to have that cape. Wayyy better than a poncho in my eyes. It would be extra large on me I'm sure, so it would have loads of air circulation. I would probably extend the arms by 3 or 4 inches and add another couple inches to the bottom hem. Just tape some Cuben strips on it. Man, you got me salivating for one. Ha!

Ben: the photo of your jacket may be deceiving my eyes: it looks tiny. sorry if I'm unfairly disparaging the piece. It's probably better than the North Face anorak that I used to take on my trips–about 5 ounces–that wasn't very breathable. Your piece is surely more waterproof than that as well. I just got knocked sideways by a cold storm in July in the Sierras that really dumped for several days. That piece of gear would have left me in real trouble had I been using it. So now I'm all cautious.

Jeffrey, I think it looks small because of its unusual proportions. The body is baggy and the arm holes are very over sized. It covers down far enough on the waist for me.

I obviously have some concerns about it too or I wouldn't be asking for advice. But I really can't put my finger on why I'm concerned. I know its fine for short storms. I also think that in sustained storms it will not be exactly comfortable, but sufficient to prevent the dreaded hypothermia; and I just assumed the likelihood of a sustained storm was pretty low in an August Sierra trip. The responses I have received here make me think the risk of sustained storms on this trip are relatively high.

Haven't followed all the comments on this thread… but it seems to me if you had to wear a cuben rain jacket backpacking for a day or two of rainy weather it could wear through (and leak) at the shoulder straps and waist belt or any other place it touches the backpack. Cuben does not like abrasion.

I would not say the chances of being in a multi-day storm or high. But it is certainly not zero. Of course, once you're in one the chances are 100%. And problem is mountain weather forecasts are not to be trusted. Like I said above, I started off on a 7 day trip in the Sierra two years ago. Dutifully checked into the ranger station before the start of packing that morning. Weather forecast was for a week of clear, sunny weather. Well, first day was sunny. The next six had rain, hail, thunder, lightning and high winds… oh, and a couple of hours of sun :(

billy

At least with a poncho you can pull your arms under and keep them out of the rain.

billy

Ben: you say that you have a fairly light Rab anorak: the Demand? that's what I carry. It did indeed save my butt more than once. Again, it's, what, 7 ounces heavier than the cuben jacket?

the Demand has brought me through several cold (at altitude)storms brilliantly: it breathed and vented well enough in cold conditions that sweat build up was not a problem; it kept the rain/sleet out while hiking.

Warm rain is not so much of an issue. But look at the altitude profile of your hike.

p.s. I've hiked in the Sierra for decades. I used to take it for granted that there would be no actual weather systems coming in from the west June through August. The last several years have in fact had these events. I don't know if global weirding is part of this, or just statistics catching up. but this summer has once again been unusual, to say the least, in terms of weather patterns in California. I've also had near-term weather forecasts go horribly wrong over the last two years. all of this is anecdotal, but still…

Last year, some friends of mine had to bail out on a Sierra trip — and these guys are serious peak Sierra baggers, tons of experience. They just got soaked to the skin in some multi-day rains in July, and yes I said last year (a drought year), i.e. 2014.

Allison Nadler also records “On my hike I experienced an unusual 2 1/2 days of rain.” (She hiked in July 2014).

So, it happens. I was in the Sierra for a week in early July of the same year and got a only a few sprinkles one afternoon. I was there the month prior (June 2014) and got no rain at all. Go figure.

I went over Pinchot Pass one year where it was hailing so hard that it was painful even with a hat on and a poncho. It was cold and wet. Earlier the weather had been sunny and warm. The temperature nose dived and plummeted like a stone. However, my poncho was adequate for keeping me warm and dry. I’ve not encountered summer conditions in the Sierra where I couldn’t get by with a poncho, BUT I’ve never had 2 1/2 days of sustained rain. I’ve experienced the typical intense afternoon thunderstorms that last maybe a couple of hours and then everything is fairly dry by the time you set up camp. The typical patterns of the past though are no more. I don’t think I would have faired well with just a poncho in 2 1/2 days of sustained rain.

HJ
Adventures In Stoving
Hikin’ Jim’s Blog

I do have a Rab Demand. It's a fine jacket. I'm just trying to keep pretty light.

I wouldn't. Not enough protection to be reliable.

Whether I take a poncho or a rain suit (jacket and pants) depends on the terrain and altitudes I expect to encounter. I like ponchos for the ventilation and pack protection and they're great on open trails, but they're terrible if you're bushwacking because they get caught in the bushes and tear. They're also not ideal when hiking boulder fields or scree slopes, where you really need to see your feet, especially if it's windy (which you can expect in storms at high altitude). In really dicey alpine situations where you're almost or partly rock climbing they don't work well either. One time I got caught in a storm on a very exposed, narrow, high ridge while scrambling/climbing cross-country in the Sierras (at least a 3 and maybe a 4 on the Yosemite decimal climbing scale), and a big gust caught my poncho like a sail and nearly peeled me off the rock.

When doing a long trek which involves both open trails and alpining I have sometimes taken both, substituting the poncho for my ground sheet to offset some of the weight penalty. Somewhat of a luxury, but nice to use the poncho for ventilation and comfort where possible, with the bomb-proof protection of a rain suit where necessary.

If the sleeves really do cover you down to your elbows, then a couple of breadbags and elastic bands ought to suffice to make full-length sleeves if necessary.

How about a cuben PACKA? Better than a poncho but with the same coverage.

The groupthink is definitely strong in this thread, but I'll test that 'jacket' out for you if you'd like. I'll be in the Sierra (AA wilderness) at 10k-12k' for 5 days in the next week. The way the thunderheads have been forming the last few weeks, we'll definitely get some rain and/or hail.

I'm only half serious about testing it for you, but I also find it curious how people suddenly assume that you're in for hypothermia because your cuben jacket doesn't have full sleeves. I tend to side more with Skurka's advice about using the gear between your ears vs. buying a "UL rain shell" ad infinitum.

Flash flood warnings here in the Sierra the past two days. Lightning, hail, heavy rain.
We've had thunder showers every day this past week.
Yes, this is indeed the Sierra Nevada where it never rains in the summer :)

billy

just take what you would feel comfortable with. If you're really getting dumped on with cold rain and high winds, you can duck behind a big boulder or what not (unless there's Lightning?) and wait it out curled under the cape. I mean, it's really just like any other nonbreathable rain jacket except it has elbow length sleeves. Hell, after thinking it over these couple days, I'd feel comfortable taking it. I would probably opt for rain pants instead of the skirt though, being that youll more than likely have some rock hopping and climbing with your off trail portion.

Anyway, That's all I've got to say about that. :^)

Thanks for all the insights, guys. I'm still undecided but probably leaning towards a little more rain protection. I typically only get out that way once a year, so I probably won't take the chance. Maybe a I'll try it out on a shorter trip and hope for rain.

I just finished 7 days on the northernmost section of the Sierra High Route – it rained every single day. Some days for only a short time, others for hours. I had a Luke's Ultralite Gor-tex Paclite jacket and pants, and a ZPacks poncho, and used them all in combination throughout the trip.

"I had a Luke's Ultralite Gor-tex Paclite jacket and pants, and a ZPacks poncho, and used them all in combination throughout the trip."

I'm curious how/why you combined the two rain systems. Poncho for pack protection? If you did it again would you still bring all three items?

Bob,

Did you feel like you really needed both the jacket/pants combo and the poncho? If you have time, please say a little bit more about what you used each raingear type for (i.e. what conditions for which type).

I’ve always used just a poncho in the Sierra, but things are changing. It used to be nearly as reliable as a clockwork that you’d get an afternoon thundershower and then things would clear by evening. But lately, it seems like we’re getting less precip in the winter and more in the summer and that storms are sometimes more sustained. I hesitate to put more crap in my pack, :) but misery isn’t my favorite either.

HJ
Adventures In Stoving
Hikin’ Jim’s Blog

"I'm curious how/why you combined the two rain systems. Poncho for pack protection? If you did it again would you still bring all three items?"

I've been using this combo for a couple trips this year. The first was Memorial Day weekend in Yosemite where it rained 4 straight days with snow at high elevation and temperatures that never went above 60F. For the trip last week I knew the forecast was going to be stormy so decided to bring the combo again. The lightweight Paclite stuff (12 oz. total) works great when it's cold to maintain body temperature but will wet out in sustained rain for hours. The cuben poncho (5 oz.) is waterproof and works good by itself when the temperature is warm enough and can be used with the other rain gear when it's hypothermia cold to prevent wet out of other rain gear. It's all a system I'm testing this summer and so far I like it, even with the slight weight penalty. I'm doing multiple trips over the rest of this summer in the Sierra, Winds, and Sawtooths and will decide later on how effective this all is…

Edit: Jim, I was typing this when you replied, I hope I answered your questions?

Yep. Questions answered. I’ve used a poncho to prevent wet out of rain gear before — in Colorado. Never had to do it here. Hate to carry both, but suffering isn’t all that great either.

Thanks,

HJ
Adventures In Stoving
Hikin’ Jim’s Blog

Bring both the Rab and the cuben jacket with you to the trailhead. If it happens to be storming at the start of your trip, my guess is that you'll say 'holy crap!' and bring the Rab. (DWR it beforehand.) If not, go with your gut and let us know how it all turned out. Best wishes for a great trip with good weather!

Would it be appropriate to mention that it snowed in the eastern Sierra this afternoon and highway 120 into Yosemite was closed for SNOW for a couple hours? ;-)

I just went through the whole thread. It's been pretty much all been said already but let me comment on my surprise at some of the critics of this garment. On this forum. My only reserves about the proposed use would be the lack of full sleeves: it can get cold and the weight of full sleeves would be well spent. A sleeved version wouldn't be just emergency, just in case wear, it'd be a fully functioning jacket, perfectly adequate for the conditions.

I don't see a problem with the lack of breathability. It's not like the breathable jackets breathe much at all and it's not that long ago that rain jackets were all non-breathable like this one. You just have to make them work by using them only when it actually rains, ventilating as much as possible or shaking the condensation off when under cover or if it stops raining. Yes you get damp from inside but that's not the end of the world.

Cuben doesn't like abrasion but this applies more to brushing against rough or pointy stuff, not that much to pack straps which are more like a constant, concentrated load. Cuben doesn't have a particularly bad record about pack straps that I'm aware of.

What I don't see for the proposed use is the poncho. Not the best idea for off-trail, high in the mountains. Neither the umbrella. Even the skirt would be questionable but legs are less critical.

Are you already taking a fleece perhaps? It could keep your arms warm when wet in the event of sustained rain if so. Can you get hypethermia from cold forearms anyway? I would take that jacket just out of spite at this point. Lol

Ryan

Inaki, I agree that I would not be worried at all about the material wearing through. My pack has cuben straps and there have been no wear issues at all.

Ryan, I tend to fully agree with you. I have considered adding a light fleece vest. I think you can feel uncomfortable from wet arms but likely not hypothermic. I am happy to save several ounces in return for a small chance of moderate discomfort.