Questioning “dry base layers for sleeping”.

Uncomfortable nylon skin aside — I think it's a bad idea to wear an insulation layer next to skin because of perspiration.

"Yes, I know that a base layer is more comfortable next to skin than a nylon shell."
That would have to be the N1 reason for me.
That is because when I go hiking I do it for fun, not to win races/cover miles/have the smallest kit.
(I call my style "comfortably light" also known as not that light)
As much as I try to have a full wipe down every night before getting into my "dry night clothes", I will still end up soiling them after a few days and I really prefer to wash my first layer than my puffy down stuff.
And yes I do know that some claim they can walk for three days in the same socks without washing them nor washing their feet AND still not smell, but that is not me.
On the other hand, if I were to say hike the PCT maybe the above would change.
('Never mind the smell, I need to get there' would be the main priority then)

"That is because when I go hiking I do it for fun, not to win races/cover miles/have the smallest kit. (I call my style "comfortably light" also known as not that light)"

I go hiking to be uncomfortable with a bit of misery thrown in. (I call my style "comfortably numb")

"As much as I try to have a full wipe down every night before getting into my "dry night clothes", I will still end up soiling them after a few days"

Just a hint, this does not translate to US English well…..

"Are there any flaws in this logic? I seems more practical to me. Yes, I know that a base layer is more comfortable next to skin than a nylon shell."

I put on a light cuben top (and sometimes bottom) and leave my damp base layers on (if they're really wet, I'll take the base layers off, then put the cuben on). Cuben (to me anyway) actually feels pretty good next to skin.

I did this on the pct and it worked surprisingly well. I carry wind pants (argon very breathable 1.5oz) and my down jacket and or fleece hoody. My clothes would be soaked from hiking in the rain, especially my shorts, and I would just get naked and either wear wind pants or sleep half naked with my down jacket. I would wring out my shorts and try and hang them inside my tarp and just throw them on in the morning.

I some what agree with Doug. For me backpacking isn't supposed to be comfortable, and I want it to challeng me (both physically and mentally) if I wanted a perfect bed I'd stay at home.

I never bring a spare base layer.

base layers are specifically designed to "wick" perspiration away and vent. My syn puffy has decent wind breaking & DWR, when I go for a run and take it off, there's usually a thin layer of sweat on the inside (does not wick).

The question really depends on your temp range as well. For example sometimes it might be too hot for your puffy, or any base layer. Othertimes you might need both just to stay warm. It's a sleep "system" not a set of independent variables.

Lastly, comfort. A light silk baselayer might feel pretty cool, while still keeping the buggs off your skin. (obviously mosquitos can still bite through, I'm talking about nats).

If you're out for a week trip or whatever, I usually bring two base layers anyways, so one's always drying while the other is working.

As others have mentioned, I use my "sleeping base layers" (150wt merino top and bottom) as a "funk barrier". I have no problem washing my down gear, but since it is so light, every time it's washed risks damage…better to simply keep them as clean as possible for as long as possible.

I also find light wool baselayers to add significant warmth when pressed into non-sleep duty. I consider them essential and not at all extra weight. Like Franco, I've gone from heavy to ultra light and back to "comfortable light". I see a HUGE comfort difference in my 10lb BPW vs an 8lb BPW…well worth it.

The only case I can make for carrying extra base layers is to dry out if you perspire heavily in cool humid conditions where you stuff won't dry and you could go hypothermic. I couldn't make a case for more than one very light base layer top to swap out when hiking in conditions like rainy 40F-55F where you rain gear just can't vent enough to keep you dry. Other than that, it hard to justify duplicate clothing other than one pair of socks.

I usually carry some sort of fleecy midlayer top like an R1 hoodie for the insulation part of my layering system and that is fine to wear while my light base layer dries. That is certainly usable for sleep and extends the range of my sleeping gear– but it must have other core uses rather than "pajamas." If my base layer is that funky in hot weather, I can wash it and wear my windshirt while it dries.

UL clothing layering systems are a major part of lowering the weight of your kit and all the parts should work together well. With all the effort to reduce weight, the idea of clothing set aside for the sole purpose of sleep is definitely two steps backwards.

IMHO, the whole dirt and spare clothing thing is an artifact of city life and carrying a whole spare set of clothing for sleeping is really out of the UL canon. Washing up at the end of the day by taking a "sponge bath" may help with the dirt phobia.

UL clothing layering systems are a major part of lowering the weight of your kit and all the parts should work together well. With all the effort to reduce weight, the idea of clothing set aside for the sole purpose of sleep is definitely two steps backwards.

+1!

My sleeping base layer top can be used in place of my mid-layer as I hike pretty hot. It's lighter than my fleece layer, though I know it's not quite as efficient for the weight but I don't need that much while moving. Less stinky is a plus. Because it's thinner it's easier to wear my down jacket while sleeping.

Unless you have insulated pants, wool leggings are the only means to increase leg insulation. I already sleep in my hiking pants.

If my hiking clothes are wet from sweat or rain, or dirty, I wear just my Squamish and a pair of running shorts to bed. Both are multi purpose as the Squamish's primary job is to be a wind shirt, and the running shorts are worn as an extra pair of underwear or around camp when I'm out of the sun.

"As much as I try to have a full wipe down every night before getting into my "dry night clothes", I will still end up soiling them after a few days"

"Just a hint, this does not translate to US English well….."

LMAO! Must be a dirty old man issue but that's my reaction as well!

Ok, I'm not arguing that you don't carry any sleep clothing. I like having something clean to sleep in.

I'm mainly arguing that an a ultralight down jacket and down pants would make more sense as stowaway dry sleep/camp clothes, being just a little heavier or the same weight than poly long underwear and boosting your warmth a lot more.

Or at least if you are carrying a heavier down jacket, instead of adding some long underwear bottoms for night time, just add a couple ounces for down pants.

But good point about body oils getting into the down clothes.

I hike in shorts with built in liners an a long sleeve base layer and that is the extent of my daily clothes. I also carry a Houdini and Dynamo wind pants, a 6.5 oz down vest and historically a poncho and now packa. This works for me down into the 30's during the day but I also carry silk weight long underwear for sleeping and as back up. I rinse out my shorts and hiking long sleeve each night and change into my sleeping base layer. Many mornings I have had to beat the ice off the shirt and get hiking quickly but it isn't too bad.

For me it is about sleeping comfort and keeping things cleaner and also allows for a lighter bag as well. The top is 3.5oz and the bottoms are 3oz and my base wight is 10-12 lbs depending on how cold/wet I expect the trip to be and that includes 11.5 oz for my Crocs. Fully loaded for 10-12 days without resupply and carrying 1 liter of water, my pack weighs less than 25lbs. The only advantage of age has been how little I need to eat for trips up to about 10-12 days. Dropping the sleepwear and putting my pack weight at 6.5oz less isn't worth it to me.

"For me backpacking isn't supposed to be comfortable, and I want it to challeng me (both physically and mentally) if I wanted a perfect bed I'd stay at home."

Actually, this is also a way to define comfort.
Comfort is about feeling 'good', right ?
And to feel good, you need it to be physically and mentally challenging.
Hence, to get comfortable then, it should be for you a physical and mental challenge.

"I'm mainly arguing that an a ultralight down jacket and down pants would make more sense"

In a min/max theorycrafting situation, extra down, in your sleeping bag is probably even better warmth to weight ratio.

If you're wearing down pants to bed, then presumably you're pushing the limits of your sleeping bag in a COLD area. You could wear either, but some people might wear both.

Most layers systems suggest, base layer, insulation layer, and then shell. Your tarp is your shell. Your bag is your insulation. Base layer in this case should be tight to the body to prevent drafts. I would anticipate down shirt/pantsto fit looser and pull air in and out around the edges when you move/twist, which creates draft. Conforming base layers won't do that.

Also if your sleeping bag is properly fitted and you're not a sleeping tornado like me, sleeping bags are supposed to be somewhat conforming to the body. If there's not enough room for that down suite you're wearing, you're compressing it and minimizing its benefits.

In Ed Veisturs book (famous himalayan climber) he says his lightest set-up he used was a 0 degree quilt he shared with another Partner. They would sleep in full day clothes (Baselayers+down suite) spooning underneath 1 quilt. Since they used that setup at the final alpine camp on everest, I would anticipate it was somewhere between -20 F and -70 F(?)

> a set of dry base layers to change into when you set up camp.
Yes, we do this if it is cold or wet.

> if you are already carrying a jacket specifically for camp/sleeping,
We never do this. We make sure or quilts are warm enough, and reserve any jacket for those times when we want to keep our down gear DRY. This includes the evenings when cooking dinner.

> Base layers are pretty weak in their warmth per ounce.
Yes, and no. They are excellent as sleepwear becasue they are sufficient to deflect any cold drafts. And this also applies when sitting around at breakfast or dinner times.

I think a more important underlying point here is that we do not push the safety limits too hard in cold and wet (ie dangerous) conditions. We are there to enjoy the walking, not to prove any stupid machismo. Some safety margin is just plain sensible.

Cheers

Yep, that's me, "comfortably light".

>synthetic sleeping layer instead of merino wool (poly T shirt & briefs or light poly long johns) BUT, the merino wool longs or T shirt will absorb more of the perspiration than polyester so the initial 30 minutes of your perspiration stays in the wool.

I still prefer polyester – of different weights depending on the season or altitude. I've never had the problem of poly stinking any more than wool, less as a matter of fact, if the wool gets soaked.

A lot depends on the conditions where you hike. I use base layers for sleeping. Three weeks ago, I needed them to stay warm while hiking. After stopping in some late spring snowfall, I got a fire going, dried out the base layers, eating supper and slept soundly in my bag along with my fleece jacket. My hiking cloths, along with my shoes and socks were still wet, though. My hiking cloths are a light, nylon and my sleeping cloths are light wool. (The wool dries pretty well with body heat, though.) I also carry a dedicated set of sleeping socks.

A few things that have not been mentioned, so far.
1) Wearing your base layer inside your bag or quilt often means a slightly colder bag (or quilt.) Instead of a 30F bag, I carry a 40F bag and save about 3oz. The base layer (uppers and lower) weighs about 10oz all told, so it actually comes in at a 7oz weight over not bringing a base layer. (In the above, it actually got down to 29F, a good 10F below the rated temp, also called "pushing" the quit.)
2) At laundry times, it is easy enough to wear the "tights" (base layers) at laundromats.
3) Having multiple layers of clothing, it is easier to adjust them to different temp conditions. Over the course of a day, going from about 45f to 85F and back to 50F can lead to hypothermia. Adding the dry base layer under your hiking shirt, then removing it later on, and adding it back at camp (after drying) gets fairly routine. As the temps get lower at camp, the down jacket helps a lot because it also breaths well.

Last week, I was out during a lot of rain. It rained 6 times while hiking in 8 days. I could not have survived if I let my base layers get too wet. I refused to wear them, though I could have used them a couple times. I needed them to sleep. While hiking, I could always hike a bit harder to warm up.

I'm glad we're having this discussion because this is exactly what is going on my head right now. We are planning for 35 days (ish) on the CT, and I always hike in shorts.

I usually bring tights and my dynamo wind pants on long trips to help with temp regulation throughout the days/elevation changes/weather (it's a great mix-n-match combo). But as I'm packing up, I can't think of really any times I actually needed to use the tights other than as sleepwear, a job which my dynamos could do quite nicely.

So I'm having this horrible internal YOU MIGHT GET COLD! conversation about having nothing for my legs except shorts and the dynamos…and the ability to hunker down in my bag when it was cold out. would packing the 4 oz tights just be packing my fears, or is that stupid light to leave at home on a 5-week trip in the midst of a crazy weather pattern???

Well, in really wet/humid weather I think a merino or polyester top may well outperform a 5oz down puffy. Wet down is a (potentially) catastrophic failure if you're relying on a single insulating garment. On most trips I have a synthetic or merino midlayer that doubles as a sleep shirt. I don't like to hike in puffies, down or synthetic, but there are definitely times when I need an extra layer underneath my windshirt (I get cold easily, even if I'm moving).

Also, on longer trips there's the laundromat factor. Good to have something you're comfortable sitting around in while you wash your day clothes. My windpants are black and work fine for that; my windshirt is light colored and a little too translucent to work as an only layer.

Less efficient but a thin layer for sleeping primarily saves getting my down quilts from getting dirty, … plus an extra layer of safety on the trail if they fit over my hiking baselayer for additive protection.

I think a few of you don't understand what I am suggesting here, based on your comments that make no sense in relation to my original post.

I am suggesting taking your polyester long underwear tops/bottoms reserved for your sleeping bag and replacing them with an ultralight down jacket and ultralight down pants, which would be about the same weight and much warmer.

Or if you are carrying a down jacket + polyester top + polyester bottoms for camp/sleeping, ditch the polyester top and wear your down jacket next to skin (maybe then you can budget more weight into a heavier/warmer down jacket), and ditch the polyester bottoms and wear down pants next to skin.

I'm thinking about colder weather here mostly, below freezing at night. In warmer weather you would want something clean to change into during the evenings when it's not that cold out.

On some trips cold weather trips, I don't take spare base layers as just put my down/synethic insulated clothing over my worn base layers (do take sleep socks). On some trips I wear the down gear to bed, sometimes I don't (depends on what bag I bring with me)

For summer/3 season trips I do bring spare base layers for the same reasons folk mentioned previously.

I think if you had mentioned winter in your first post you may have gotten different answers.