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Lightest & Best 3 Layer Rain Jacket?


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  • #2206981
    Eric Blumensaadt
    BPL Member

    @danepacker

    Locale: Mojave Desert

    Their Kimtah eVent parka is VERY reasonably priced.

    I have had one for several years. Used it for skiing (a lot), backpacking and around town and it still looks like new.

    #2206984
    Billy Ray
    Spectator

    @rosyfinch

    Locale: the mountains

    Eric… thanks… yes, going to look at the Kimtah eVent parka soon. A little heavier than I'd like, but seems to meet my other concerns… and the price sure is right.
    Just wish REI still have their forever return policy on something like this especially.

    billy

    #2206987
    f b
    BPL Member

    @xxtraloud

    do these light 2.5l or 3l jackets need to be revived of WBP?

    #2206998
    Trill Daddy
    BPL Member

    @persianpunisher

    ALL outerwear, at some point, need DWR reapplied or revived.

    IMO, Goretex Proshell requires the least maintenance and my 150 denier Theta SV has been used in all 4 seasons.

    In the summer, I slow down pace during downpours. Even so, it still keeps me dry if I layer light. I usually am in a silk weight crew underneath until I stop and then put on a puffy.

    I've heard westcomb's DWR is the best

    #2206999
    IVO K
    BPL Member

    @joylesshusband

    Locale: PA lately

    "you guys are not giving me the information that I asked for… want I want and need are recommendations on 3 layer jackets…"

    @ Billy,
    Focus!
    The EMS Helix anorak I recommended is 3-layer.

    #2207010
    David Chenault
    BPL Member

    @davec

    Locale: Queen City, MT

    Short answer:

    For me lightweight Goretex is the best raingear around. I'd look at the Arc'teryx Alpha FL or SL, and the Haglofs LIM III or parka. Both companies have good face fabrics, DWRs, and know how to make a good hood (edge to Haglofs on the last point). No pitzips, no more than one pocket, and anorak preferred, please.

    Long answer:

    Except for Neoshell and Gore Active I've tried pretty much every raingear technology. Ponchos don't do it for me. Driducks is fragile. PU wets out. Non breathable waterproof jackets get super sweaty, even when oversized and with enormous pitzips. Event leaks under duress.

    Goretex just works. It breaths well enough once a certain level of internal humidity is reached, and keeps the weather out. If I'm hiking all day in the rain I get plenty of internal condensation, but much less than with an impermeable rain coat, and unlike the leaky PU UL coats, said internal moisture is already warm so it doesn't cost me any internal heat. I've been using the same Haglofs Ozo since early in 2011 and I've never had precip leaking in through the fabric. With top shelf coats and regular washings I've had great luck with the DWR lasting years of regular use.

    Goretex has certainly been guilty of rosy marketing language to the point of misleading consumers, but said consumers have been equally guilty of lazy gear maintenance and excessively high expectations. WPB ain't perfect, but it was and remains an impressively effective piece of technology. Since I don't go on multi-week trips in full conditions with no way to clean and re-up the DWR, Goretex works fine for me.

    #2207016
    Billy Ray
    Spectator

    @rosyfinch

    Locale: the mountains

    Thanks David, nice write up.
    billy

    #2207018
    Billy Ray
    Spectator

    @rosyfinch

    Locale: the mountains

    David, I do note that you do not draw a distinction between 2 an 3 layer wp/b jackets… would you care to comment on that?

    thanks,
    billy

    #2207026
    Nick Gatel
    BPL Member

    @ngatel

    Locale: Southern California

    Gore's website has a lot of information about their products and a listing of most of the current products available with links to each manufacturer's website. You just need to filter out the marketing from the facts. Remember, Gore guarantees their membrane in every one of these products and the manufacturer must build them per Gore's specifications. So there is a plethora of outer and inner fabrics. Fit and function will vary between all manufacturer's.

    The challenge is determining what fits your needs. What works for one person doesn't work for another. As Dave pointed out, all of these WPB fabrics need maintenance. I always did the maintenance on my rain gear, but eventually decided I no longer have the time or patience to deal with it any more. That is part of the reason for my rain gear preferences. The other thing is, I am packing my rain gear almost every week as I get to do a hike almost every week of the year. That is hard on laminated clothing.

    #2207029
    jscott
    BPL Member

    @book

    Locale: Northern California

    Hypothermia is the enemy. When I hike in cold wet conditions, even going over sleeting/snowing passes, sweat is less of an issue. I have a 3 layer Rab event jacket that keeps the rain and sleet out and breathes reasonably well. Again, in cold conditions, when it really matters if you're wet, I'd rather have a robust three layer jacket for the elements. Sweat is not a huge issue for me when it's just above freezing/low 40's.

    It can be cold in the PNW any month when it's raining…meaning any month. (Mount Rainier may be warmer than the Cascades because it's closer to the ocean?).

    In warm rains I think that every jacket will sweat out, but hypothermia is far less of an issue in these conditions.

    #2207032
    michael levi
    Member

    @m-l

    Locale: W-Never Eat Soggy (W)affles

    The MH SL is a jacket I bought and think it is very nice and light at just 7.5 ounces. It is a breathable membrane but most importantly it feels good and NOT STICKY against wet skin.

    #2207037
    Billy Ray
    Spectator

    @rosyfinch

    Locale: the mountains

    Michael,
    That is a 2/2.5 layer jacket. Thanks, but I was asking for suggestions of 3 layer jackets.

    Of course, this thread will likely degenerated into people posting whatever their favorite jacket is without regard to what the question that the original poster was asking… for suggestions on 3 layer jackets. But thanks anyway.

    billy

    #2207050
    Trill Daddy
    BPL Member

    @persianpunisher

    My suggestions:

    Arcteryx Alpha FL (11oz)

    Arcteryx Alpha AR (13oz)

    Arcteryx Beta LT (similar to above but with more pockets and less of a climbing cut (11oz)

    Patagonia M10 (9oz)

    Westcomb Switch LT (15oz)

    Westcomb Shift LT (12oz)

    #2207065
    Woubeir (from Europe)
    BPL Member

    @woubeir

    David,
    did you use the latest air-permeable Gore-Tex Pro (so not Pro Shell) ?

    About DWR: as most companies used C8-based DWR's and C-8 is more or less banned because of it's negative influence on a human body, a lot of those chemical companies and outdoor companies are searching now for an alternative and the new DWR's (so with a new chemistry) are not up to the level of the old C-8 based DWR's, repellency-wise or particularly durability-wise, for now. So the search goes on. So, even recent experience with the DWR of a certain company, might not be relevant.

    #2207067
    Jennifer Mitol
    Spectator

    @jenmitol

    Locale: In my dreams....

    When I know i'm going to be in cold rain I bring my Rab Demand (smock, 3 layer eVent, perfect hood, 11 oz) – it's what I used bike commuting in Chicago for the last 2 winters and springs I was there.

    I also really like the Haglofs 3 layer Goretex Active (?) jacket that I have (12 oz) – but it won't fit over my butt anymore. BUT I WILL WEAR IT AGAIN!!!! lol…..

    #2207074
    Billy Ray
    Spectator

    @rosyfinch

    Locale: the mountains

    Great suggestions Trill and Gen… any idea who has the best/longest return policy?
    Would really like to buy an expensive jacket like this from someone who has a forever and for anything return policy like REI used to have…

    Jen: "…but it won't fit over my butt anymore. BUT I WILL WEAR IT AGAIN!!!! lol….."

    NOW THAT's a change of thread topic I'm sure we'd all find acceptable :)
    (a picture is worth a thousand words?)

    billy

    #2207075
    Jennifer Mitol
    Spectator

    @jenmitol

    Locale: In my dreams....

    I've had great success with both coupons/deals AND return policies (including a pair of pants I just wore around the house but ended up with tons of charliedog hair on it….i felt really bad about sending them back but they just did NOT fit) from CAMPSAVER.com. They've been awesome…

    Another not-so-well-known site but again, great sales and great return policy is backcountryedge.com (https://www.backcountryedge.com/on-sale.html?trk_msg=9BJQL1BDQG2K17FV6K3EMEA3MG&trk_contact=LSU1KM1GH4VINCENCCFD9EBD4K&utm_source=Listrak&utm_medium=Email&utm_term=Shop+the+Best+Deals+of+the+Season+at+Backcountry+Edge!&utm_campaign=6-11-15+Best+Deals+2015+LC&utm_content=6-11-15+Best+Deals+2015+LC+Msg1)

    They also have a lifetime no-questions-asked return policy.

    And of course, the favorite backcountry.com also has a lifetime returns policy.

    Good luck in your search – may it be fruitful.

    And no, you can't see a picture of my butt.

    #2207079
    Billy Ray
    Spectator

    @rosyfinch

    Locale: the mountains

    "And no, you can't see a picture of my butt."

    Now Jen… nothing untoward intended… butt I do think we need to see exactly what the fit problem is you're having with that jacket…

    billy

    #2207089
    Paul S.
    BPL Member

    @pschontz

    Locale: PNW

    Backcountry.com has a much more limited return policy now. Once REI lowered the bar they didn't have to match it anymore and lowered it that much more. Any used returns only get you store credit and have a shorter return window.

    They do honor items purchased under their old policy like REI does.

    #2207285
    James Couch
    Spectator

    @jbc

    Locale: Cascade Mountains

    > Those UL 6 oz jackets generally don't let water IN – they simply soak through the OUTER
    > layer and then do not allow the fabric to breathe at all any longer (particularly in the
    > shoulders, or under pressure from the shoulder straps). You are getting wet from sweat on the
    > inside…THAT is why they feel like they are wetting through.
    DING DING DING DING!!!!

    I am glad someone finally brought this up! 100% correct! As a hiker, backpacker, climber in the PNW with over 40 years of experience I can tell you if it is IMPOSSIBLE to stay dry if you are moving at a good clip in the rain in moderate temperatures! If you MUST stay dry you can stop and set up camp, put on the best rainshell you can afford and move slowly enough that you don't sweat, or just get wet, either from the inside (sweat) or the outside (rain) no other alternative.

    The myth of a waterproof breathable shell that will keep you dry in PNW rainstorm has been perpetuated by the fabric and clothing industry. Unfortunately for us backpackers the laws of physics still apply!

    #2207289
    Billy Ray
    Spectator

    @rosyfinch

    Locale: the mountains

    "> Those UL 6 oz jackets generally don't let water IN – they simply soak through the OUTER
    > layer and then do not allow the fabric to breathe at all any longer (particularly in the
    > shoulders, or under pressure from the shoulder straps). You are getting wet from sweat on the
    > inside…THAT is why they feel like they are wetting through.
    DING DING DING DING!!!!

    I am glad someone finally brought this up! 100% correct!"

    Not in my world, Jim.
    I can tell you for sure that my 7 oz 2 layer rain jacket absolutely leaks. And many others have reported the same. I know the difference between sweat and a leak.
    Obviously both can and do happen. For the previous poster to make the absolute statement that all "Those UL 6 oz jackets generally don't let water IN" is absolutely wrong… at least for some jackets… especially ones that have been worn a under a backpack for some time.

    I have been doing this about 40 years, have owned wp/b jackets since the first generation Gortex and have used them everywhere from rain forest environments to mountains over 20,000 feet. And I am well aware of getting wet from sweat. But that is noting new. I can be soaked in the summer in the Sierra on a clear, dry day wearing only a T-Shirt and shorts. Daaaaa… you guys report on sweat like it is some secrete or something to be discovered. Good Grief.

    Bottom line is this: Whether it's boots or jackets or pants, it's better to we warm and wet from sweat than to be cold and wet from rain. With a good WP/B jacket that does not leak in the rain you will be a little less wet, but still wet and warm. With a WP/P jacket that leaks/lets rain inside you will be wet and cold.

    billy

    #2207294
    Trill Daddy
    BPL Member

    @persianpunisher

    Woubeir,

    I spoke with a Gore rep today who confirmed the new Goretex Pro IS the new pro shell- just a different backer and membrane.

    #2207307
    Daniel D
    Spectator

    @dandru

    Locale: Down Under

    Noticed this on Gear Junkie today, it won't be available until Feb 2016.

    http://gearjunkie.com/columbia-outdry-extreme-waterproof-jackets

    #2207308
    Woubeir (from Europe)
    BPL Member

    @woubeir

    Trill Daddy,
    I know that. And I know the backer on the new Pro is ripstop and the one on the old Pro Shell isn't.
    It's just that I wanted to know if DC has used the old Pro Shell or also already this new Pro as several reviews elsewhere said there was a real difference.

    #2207327
    Jennifer Mitol
    Spectator

    @jenmitol

    Locale: In my dreams....

    "Whether it's boots or jackets or pants, it's better to we warm and wet from sweat than to be cold and wet from rain. With a good WP/B jacket that does not leak in the rain you will be a little less wet, but still wet and warm. With a WP/P jacket that leaks/lets rain inside you will be wet and cold."

    I just don't understand this statement. I've done a LOT of wet hiking in my 35 years of backpacking (and working outside) around the world, as well as canoeing in the Boundary Waters. If you are wet inside your jacket, you are wet. Who cares how it got there – if you are wet you will still be cold unless it's really hot out, in which case who needs the rain jacket? The rain feels good at that point.

    why is only wet from rain the cold stuff and wet from sweat the warm stuff?? the whole point is to try to manage moisture, period. I sweat in the dead of winter, which means if I don't manage that well then I'm hypothermic.

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