- Feb 11, 2019 at 9:45 pm #3577954
Link .BPL Member
@annapurnaFeb 12, 2019 at 12:31 am #3577969
Thanks everyone for the Very fast replies
1. Cost isn’t a real issue I want the cleanest fastest boil. <span style=”text-decoration: underline;”>IF</span> it is worth the difference etc. hell what do we pay to save ounces 🤑
2. I do understand that skin contact is not good for you but same goes for denatured alcohol. There are some very unhealthy additives in it.
3. You can get pure 100% ethenal hence the 200 proof undenatured food grade I linked. That’s why it is so expensive.
4. But not Methanol which is what I was asking about so I had my references messed up thanks for pointing that out .
Thanks I will continue to researchFeb 12, 2019 at 12:48 am #3577975
My comments tend to be about the practical , everyday, doable kind of thing…
pure ethanol (200 proof )
“Pure Ethanol is a federally regulated product so applicable laws must be followed. Our Ethanol products are available tax-free to customers who hold a valid, TTB issued “Industrial Alcohol User Permit.”Feb 12, 2019 at 1:09 am #3577980
Point taken.Feb 12, 2019 at 1:12 am #3577981Feb 12, 2019 at 1:20 am #3577983
looking at it again I noticed the bit that I did not read…
“Also available tax-paid which has the federal excise tax included in the price, this version normally does not require a federal permit. ”
I guess “normally” refers to different state laws.
Still not a product one can easily walk into a shop to buy.
( I had never seen that 200 proof discussed before, that is why I had a look)Feb 12, 2019 at 1:29 am #3577985
Jon FongBPL Member
@jonfongLocale: FLAT CAT GEAR
190 proof is the highest that I have seen . Everclear 190 proof at Total Wine & More for $15 for 750 ml.Feb 12, 2019 at 2:08 am #3577988
Ethanol is generally produced by distilling, so, 100% or 200proof is nearly impossible to get without a lab license. Normally a single distillation only reaches around 95% pure. You can however distill it 5-6 times and come up with closer to 100% pure stuff with the remainder of the water being being removed by chemical means.
I usually buy a quart of 190proof (95%) ethanol for around $16 a bottle, about the same as Jon. A bottle usually lasts quite a while at around 2-3oz/day. It burns cleanly and fairly hot, with no soot, fumes or residue.Feb 12, 2019 at 11:03 pm #3578146
John WBPL Member
Where I come from, the first obvious fuel selection is amongst picnic firestarter liquids which are sold at every store and gas station in summer.
I’ve tested five of these guys and they came out 70-86% effective vs 96% medical ethanol which one can buy in a pharmacy.
The test was a liter of 20 deg C water, 30g of fuel and a Polder digital kitchen probe thermometer. I put the pot with water on a Tri-Tri Sidewinder cone on my balcony exactly 30 seconds after stove ignition. I’ve subtracted the starting 20 degrees and compared the temperature differentials after burning those 30 grams.
Only 96% ethanol got it to boiling 99 degrees in 17 minutes and went out just after, others stopped at 75-88 degrees Celsius and smelled less pleasant, a couple very much so. Some of them left unburnt liquid residue in the stove which could be a problem with some closed stove designs with fiberglass for fuel suspension.
There also is a selection of some colorful liquids in hardware stores but didn’t try them. I settled on the cleaner and more effective ethanol option even though it costs more per boil. I get something called bio-ethanol which comes in 1L and 5L bottles vs the small bottles of medical stuff and supposedly may be used indoors with an “ethanol fireplace”.Feb 13, 2019 at 12:59 am #3578177
John, I would be careful with “bio” anything. Regardless of it’s source, ethanol is also my choice as a camp fuel. Just don’t fall for the propaganda catch phrase since most ethanol is produced through renewable resources.Feb 13, 2019 at 2:15 am #3578195
Thanks everyone. I realized I can’t buy Everclear 190 in my new state of residence. MD. 🤦♂️ And Jon the 16 per 750 mils plus tax is approaching the $99 a gallon mark minus the hazmat fee.
After reading more about the racing fuel and other alky comparisons and its less efficient burn rates I am inclined to use ethanol as pure as I can source locally or I will grab some when I go back home. I will keep a look for the pharmacy ethanol
Last questions are :
is there specific stoves that burn better on ethanol etc?
As far as design should I be looking for something specific?
I have been looking at the trail designs stuff and also considering a cat stove. Homemade of course.
Sorry for all the add add on questions. I have always been a canister guy until I spent 3 days in Gunnison Basin with lows in the single digits and the canisters just burn the higher pressure gasses and then simmer. (Worthless) So me thinks alky stove lightens load and burns no matter what temp.
Thanks again for for all the commentsFeb 13, 2019 at 2:45 am #3578200
Jon FongBPL Member
@jonfongLocale: FLAT CAT GEAR
IMO, high percentages of ethanol can burn sooty with flames that have yellow tips. This can be resolved by adding a small amount of water. Again, in my experience 70% burns fine and I have seen soot at 85%. I have had problems with a denatured alcohol mix that was 85% ethanol / 15 % methanol. Add int a bit of water got rid of the soot issue. My 2 cents.Feb 13, 2019 at 2:55 am #3578203
Michael, as far as stove designs go, I believe the ones that have a slightly higher oxygen intake work best. Pressurized stoves (like the venerable “penny” stove) will take a bit longer to bloom (~173F vs ~150F) and some may require extra priming. So, an open design like a 12/10 is preferred. But ethanol burns a bit hotter, also. Here is a layman’s reference: https://sciencing.com/burns-hotter-ethanol-methanol-7848.htmlFeb 13, 2019 at 3:02 am #3578206
Adding some water (a drop or two) can also “cool” down the flame.
People laughed when I pointed that out but …well I don’t care about “theories” , I see what I see.
White Box stoves burning 95% ethanol plus a couple of drops of water on the left one.Feb 13, 2019 at 3:35 am #3578214
Yeah, the White Box stoves are semi-presurized. They don’t work well with ethanol…not enough oxygen.
Adding water will cause it to boil away (usually.) This phase change can soak up a LOT of heat.Feb 14, 2019 at 5:42 pm #3578454
John WBPL Member
James, about that bio-ethanol. I got it not based on the “bio” marketing, but because it was the only ethanol thing I could find in a bigger volume than 100ml pharmacy bottles. Would have needed a lot of those guys for my hikes.
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