Best fuels for alcohol stoves

[Ethan A.]

Tinny of MiniBullDesigns recommended, in this order:

1) airbrake antifreeze from a truck stop
2) next HEET in the YELLOW bottle from wal-mart
3) last denatured alcohol from any paint store

He said that the anti-freeze and HEET are about equal. What do you all use?

I'm new to alcohol stoves. The weight and convenience are amazing, though I'd still take a winter gas stove in very cold weather.

For the air brake anti-freeze, would this do? http://www.amazon.com/Brake-System-Anti-Freeze-Guard-quart/dp/B000ABGB2A

I just picked up a powerful little alcohol stove from Tinny that supposedly can boil a pint in 4.5 minutes – impressive, especially for a stove that weighs about (or less than) an ounce.

[Tommy Clapp]

Tinny's stoves are great. I know people give him mixed reviews on here, but I have used an Atomic stove from him over a year with no problem. I just recently purchased his black fly and can't wait to see it get going.

as for your question… use the Heet. it is cheap and easy to find.

Tommy

[Tony Beasley]

Warning

"Tinny of MiniBullDesigns recommended, in this order:

1) airbrake antifreeze from a truck stop
2) next HEET in the YELLOW bottle from wal-mart
3) last denatured alcohol from any paint store "

Airbrake anti freeze and HEET yellow bottle are both 99-100% Methanol Alcohol. Methanol is highly toxic and should not be used in stoves.

I fail to see how methanol can be a better fuel that Denatured Alcohol as Methanol only has about 75% of the heat energy than Denatured Alcohol has.

Read roger caffins excellent articles on CO and stoves.

http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/stoves_tents_carbon_monoxide_pt_4.html

Tony

[Ethan A.]

Hi Tony,

I ran this by Tinny just now, this was his response:

"This is mostly due to lack of experience and too many charts and graphs. Denatured alcohol is just ethanol with a bunch of nasty stuff added to make it not drinkable. Ethanol is great for stoves–but—you can not purchase it without additives unless you buy 200 proof drinking spirits—good luck with that. The addatives are the problem with denatured alcohol. If you had used this denatured alcohol from different sources you will discover that sometimes it has stuff like bleach in it. I have had it give off fumes that sent me running for my life because it caused my eyes to burn as well as my lungs. I have also seen a thick brown residue left behind that caused jets to plugup as well as causing bubbles of a plastic like substance to form inside the stove. I would say from my experience and from the feedback of my customers, that denatured alcohol should not be used at all. I have read all the warnings about methanol and after years of using it to fuel stoves, I have had no problems at all with it and if used with commom sense it is the fuel of choice. I grow very tired of people telling me how bad something is without any pratical experience using it. That having been said—some people can only get denatured alcohol as a fuel because there country has placed limits on ethanol consumption. —-Tinny—Minibulldesign—Have a great day!!!"

[Tommy Clapp]

Heet is the way to go.

I find that in a forum like this you will never get a consensus. All you can do is research and take educated risks… Honestly everything we talk about here is nothing but educated risks. Good luck and Happy Research!!!

Tommy

[Sam .]

Tony Beasley states:
>"Airbrake anti freeze and HEET yellow bottle are both 99-100% Methanol Alcohol. Methanol is highly toxic and should not be used in stoves."

Be advised that S-L-X denatured alcohol is still 45 to 50 percent methanol.

MSDS link here.

In short… don't drink the fuel! Everclear is another story ;:)

[Tony Beasley]

I wish to apologize for my ignorance about the content of denatured Alcohol available in the US

In Australia Denatured Alcohol (called Mehtylated Spirits) is 95% Ethanol (Ethyl Alcohol) plus additives which is mostly methanol and it is clean burning. (even cheap methylated Spirits is of this quality)

HEET and Airbrake antifreeze is not available here.

A quick check of the net for MSDS’s for Denatured Alcohol gives the Ethyl alcohol content from anywhere from 50% to 92% content. Some MSDS gave Methanol as the main additive some gave Methanol and IPA.

Even with the 50/50 mixture it would be a more efficient fuel than straight Methanol.

According to what I could find about Everclear it is pure Ethyl Alcohol.

The more heat energy available in the fuel the more efficient to heating process will be.

Name Heat energy in fuel Heat energy in fuel
Mj/kg Btu’s/pound
Methanol 19.9 8419
Denatured Alcohol 26.6 11412
Absolute Ethanol 26.9 11570
IPA 30.15 12960

Tony

[Chris Chastain]

When I used an alcohol stove regularly, I always used Everclear. 190 Proof = 95% Ethyl alcohol. I understand that it is difficult (expensive) to get that last bit of water out.

Anyway, you don't have to worry too much about additives and it works well in stoves.

Now if you burn alcohol because its cheap, then Everclear won't work. The gov't gets a large cut of that stuff.

Also it can serve a dual purpose as a sleep remedy at bedtime.
Dehydrated liquor… 1/2oz Everclear + 1/2oz water = 1 shot of 90 proof.

[Chad Miller]

Not to change the direction of this thread but why do you use Heet instead of denatured alcohol?

I'm new to alcohol stoves so I really don't know.

[Tommy Clapp]

Heet runs 1.02 @12oz here in TN so it is cheaper for me. I have only used denatured a few times and it was sootie for me so I stick with what works. I have started to blend heet and 70%iso to get better fuel consumption but it will raise your boil time. Everything has a tradeoff I guess.

[Chad Miller]

So dose Heet work better in colder weather or is it just a cost / availability thing?

[Tommy Clapp]

In the US Heet is your best price to cooktime. You can use everclear which will work better than heet, but cost you lots in the process.

Heet is easily available, cheap and in the US probably one of the cleaniest things to burn. I use Heet year round…lows in the single digits to teens.

read the post above about the US denatured alc.

Tommy

[Kyle Purcell]

There has been a lot of great input in this discussion as there always is when this topic comes up.

I asked this same question about a month ago and got a lot of good feed back abot a month ago. All of the conversations are in the MYOG section of the forum. Since then I have been working with HEET and 91% Iso and have had awesome results with it. I have been trying to find a mixture that allows me to use the most Iso and the least amount of HEET and still get a very clean buring flame (blue), and as hot as possible. I'm doing this becasue Iso alcohol is cheaper and the HEET is very clean burning. I have come to the conclusion that about a 1:1 ratio is best because it leaves next to zero soot (for the most part-only had soot once), and burns HOT (2 cups of water to a boil in an avg time of 4 min with a modified penny stove). Used very cool creek water this weekend in my mod penny stove and had awesome results. Boiled enough water for six people to have Ramen with about 6 oz of the HEET/Iso mix.

My next project is to test out mixtures of denatured alcohol and Iso. Hope this helps, and good luck-alcohol stoves are awesome!

[Tony Beasley]

Hi Chad,

I think Tommy has it right when he posted this

“I find that in a forum like this you will never get a consensus. All you can do is research and take educated risks… Honestly everything we talk about here is nothing but educated risks. Good luck and Happy Research!!!
”

Things to keep in mind, the higher the heat energy content of the alcohol the less fuel you have to carry.

Do not get caught up in the thinking that faster is more efficient it is simply NOT true.

What works best for you is the best fuel to use.

Tony

[Sara C]

As a note, Home Depot has Denatured Alcohol at $13.94US/Gallon. I recently found it at a Sears Hardware for around $9.95US/Gallon.

Jon

[Ethan A.]

In which order would you rank all 3 choices for:
1) hottest burn/quickest boil
2) cleanest burning
3) value/heat produced
4) best combination of the above

[ben .]

hey all

i’m resurrecting this ancient topic with a simple question i haven’t been able to find the answer to: are all gas line anti freeze’s the same as it relates to alcohol stoves? or is there something special about heet?

[Greg Mihalik]

The only way to know is to get the MSDS for the products you’re curious about. The manufacture can change formulation at any time, so “old information” isn’t necessarily correct today.

Material Safety Data Sheets are available online.

Note that there are two versions of Heet – Red and Yellow. So you may need product code off a bottle in this case.

Google “msds heet ” for a start.

Avoid anything with a lot of methanol it.

[Link .]

Read this article THE PERFORMANCE OF ALCOHOL FUELS FOR BACKPACKING STOVES PART ONE: THREE STRAIGHT ALCOHOLS AND ALCOHOL BLENDS you do not want to use HEET in the red bottle if you are considering HEET as the fuel for your stove

[ben .]

right, thanks guys.

i know about the difference between red and yellow heet.

put another way, are all denatured alcohol and gas line anti freeze’s the same for our (cooking) purposes?

i gather from the above that the answer is no.

which is a shame if you’re at a random gas station and the only thing on the shelf is an off brand you’ve never heard of.

[Jon Fong / Flat Cat Gear]

Gregg,

FYI – HEET in the yellow bottle is 99% methanol.

 

[Jon Fong / Flat Cat Gear]

HEET in the red bottle is isoprpyl alcohol and it can be used as long as the stove was designed to burn it cleanliy (no soot).

[Jon Fong / Flat Cat Gear]

If you have your choice between denatured alcohol and a fuel additive like HEET, I would pick denatured alcohol.  Most fuel additives are basically methanol, however; they do add other “things” into the mix.  I usually buy Clean Strip DA (Home Depot) and this is also labeled as a fuel for marine alcohol stoves.  My 2 cents.

[ben .]

this is the situation i’m envisioning: you’ve packed your bag, you’ve made a list, you’ve checked it twice, you’re excited. you get in a car and drive several hours. you’re at the trailhead. you’re excited. but wait. you forgot to fill your alcohol bottle. how could you do that?? it was on the list! and yet it’s true.

the only gas station for many miles is ten minutes back the way you came. it is in fact the last gas station on the face of the earth. they have some unfamiliar looking antifreeze. (you could change the example to the last hardware store on the face of the earth, at which they have some unfamiliar looking denatured alcohol.)

so. here you are, at the last gas station/hardware store on the face of the earth. how do you know if this bottle of antifreeze/denatured alcohol will warm your evening tea (because you’re a classy person, despite forgetting to fill the alcohol bottle)?

is there a trick to reading the labels (which mostly seem covered in warnings, not ingredients)?

is there a list someone has made of common US brands that do/don’t play nice with alcohol stoves?

if not, should there be?

[Gabe P]

everclear

 

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