Another bear attack. Should I get some spray?

While it's fresh on my mind…

In the post just deleted by Wiiiaaaawabby he made a smarmy remark about my having missed 5th grade geography… thus my response.

In the future I suppose I should copy/paste any further nonsense.

… and we now return to your regularly scheduled thread…

You are correct about the geographic region. I guess I was the one sleeping.

Is it zero? Of course not, but there are a lot of zeros the the right of the "0."

And I never disagreed with any of this.

I've run into black bears 6 times in oregon and washington

1 time – bear didn't see me
3 times – bear ran away as soon as it saw me
1 time – I was sleeping, bear tracks nearby, I never saw it
1 time – bear got up on tree and threatened me, I walked away, this was maybe unique to Enchanted Valley

In oregon and washington (except I don't know about northeast washington) you don't need bear spray. Just camera

Maybe hunting makes them fearful

Possible future newspaper headline – "overconfident man mauled by bear"

"Since Yosemite is essentially Disneyland, you'd probably end up with an accidental discharge rate of something like one per tourist bus per day, in additional to the crossfires that are likely to happen every time a touron thinks he hears a bear.

(Ok, maybe that's a bit over the top.)"

I don't think that's hyperbole at all.

>"I don't think that's hyperbole at all."

+1

If I flip the question around from, "Should I be allowed to carry bear spray on Yosemite backpacking trip?" to "Would I want 5 American, 2 European and a few Asian tourists to each have 8 ounces of pressurized, high-strength pepper spray on the crowded shuttle bus dropping me off at Happy Isles to start my JMT trip?" and I can see where the YNP policy is coming from.

Along those lines, that park policy also results in pepper spray not being available in stores in the Valley. I'm sure it would be a big seller if there were store displays saying "Protect Yourself!" with pictures of scary, charging grizzlies. It certainly is in all the stores (sporting goods, hardware stores, all the grocery stores) in my town. And if only 1% of the buyers thought, "I want to test this." or panicked at some sound in the middle of the night. . .

>"I don't think that's hyperbole at all."

+1

Especially when I think about the last time I was in a Yosemite campground, when some moron fired up his chainsaw and went running with it across the camp after a bear…to "protect his kids". Didn't bother putting away the breakfast food into the bear locker to "protect the kids", though.

Thanks everybody for sharing your insight! From how you described the situation, the ban of bear spray makes a lot of sense.

I'm glad I read this thread as it makes me more comfortable to go on my (probably solo) trip to SEKI this summer.

First thing I thought about why bear spray is not allowed is the rash Vancouver had a few years ago with people using them on others.

Vancouver police warn of criminal charges for carrying bear spray in the city

And yeah, I can attest to that. I remember seeing a bunch of teenagers spraying bear cans on the streets in New Westminster in 2010. I remember thinking about how grateful I was for not riding a bike when they were doing it. Otherwise I probably wouldn’t be here being pancaked by a car.

I am not really worried about them in places like Kluane where visitor numbers are low, but I would be a bit more concerned in places like Yosemite. If 0.1% of the population is stupid enough, then naturally the parks with more frequent visitors will have more incidents.

>"I'm glad I read this thread as it makes me more comfortable to go on my (probably solo) trip to SEKI this summer."

Please feel comfortable about your personal safety regarding bears in Yosemite and SEKI.

But TAKE VERY SERIOUSLY the threat these same bears pose TO YOUR FOOD. I've hiked in all 50 states and most provinces. I've lived for years in CA, WA and now AK. Absolutely the most skilled, persistent, and sneaky bears I've ever encountered have been in Yosemite and SEKI. IMO, you can't let your guard down until all food and smelly stuff is back in a bear canister or locker. During a lunch break, a swim or even just stepping away from the trail to do what "bears do in the woods" carries the risk of one grabbing your pack. And then stay in that mode even when you're way above treeline, because the damn marmots and finches have also gotten very good at scoring munchies if you give them even a minute of opportunity.

An old anecdote:

I had led a group backpacking trip in Yosemite to Young Lakes. On the layover day, one guy decided to stay back in camp. When the afternoon weather got warm, he slid into his tent for a nap, and he zipped up the mosquito net door. His head was next to the door. He woke up some time later, and he sensed that he was not alone. Slowly he opened his eyes and looked upside down at the door. There was a black bear nose poking halfway through the netting. The bear was looking and sniffing for food. Instinctively, the guy punched the bear squarely in the nose. That is not the recommended action, but it certainly scared the hell out of the bear, so it took off running and never returned.

The question is: how do you wash the bear slobber off your fist?

–B.G.–

That's pretty funny too

I think in California, Oregon, and everything but Northeast Washington, the bears run away from you so there's no need for bear spray. Maybe rare exceptions, but so rare not to worry about.

Much larger chance of mishap.

When I was young, my uncle had a property in Crowsnet Pass. He was an engineer for a coal-mining company there.

We were basically left to our own device and my cousins went inside. I stayed outside and played by myself. Well, there was this bear that came up to my face close enough I could feel its fur, then it walked away. When I came inside, no one in the family believed me. But the more I described the bear, the colour of the eyes, the texture of the fur and the smell, the more my grandmother became worried.

My uncle went out with his hunting rifle. Found my footprint next to a set of grizzly prints facing each others. He never did find it though.

Back then, stores didn't carry spray or mace.

There are other close encounters I could share, but that was the most memorable one.

Well, there was one time that my uncle's dog fought with a cougar through the window, and my aunt hated cleaning the slobber off of both side of the panels; but that's another story for another day.

In hindsight, considering all the bear encounters and the rare cougar ones over the years, I am actually amazed by how calm I was as a child or as a teenager. I have to wonder why adults, especially men, have such extreme paranoia of bears.

Made me glad that my grandfather and my stepfather were never afraid of bears. Would hate to think what kind of person I would become if I grew up in a paranoid family, considering my bear-paranoia is more influenced by my peers and not by my family.

"I don't think a single bear spray even in a worn holster will help you."

Can I gently ask what we're basing this on?

I researched guns vs mace a while back for a debate with my family. I came accross plenty of cases where guns didn't deter, but I didn't encounter any cases where the mace didn't work.

I previously found a youtube video where a grizzley bear hugs a trainer and starts biting his head (to crush it). 3 guys are beating on the bear to no success. The second the mace hits him, he lets go and walks away calmly.

I couldn't find the previous video but here's a short clip I found today
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CWnACum4SJs

Regarding the OP question. When a hungry bear approached me last summer, shouting/getting big didn't do much. He just looked at me more curiously. Throwing rocks worked really well. That's also how Skurka fended off his grizzley charge.

My bear management plan: throw things at black bears, carry mace in Grizzley country. I need to research polar bears before my canada trip, probably mace though.

If a healthy adult male human gets attacked by a black bear, I initially suspect rabies (bear) or stupidity (human). That's probably not fair though.

In the Sierra the bears don't necessarily run away. They will boldly come into your camp looking for food, especially after dark. they are highly skilled at getting your food. But in my experience they respect the rules: they don't go into your tent unless there's food; they don't approach you unless you're holding dinner perhaps, although I've never had that happen. When I used to hang food bears would hang around to check that out and, again, were often brilliant at getting your food (including leaping through the air from a good distance). Now that I use a canister I have zero issues, as long as I always have the lid on. Seems like I see far fewer bears in camp in the evening than before canisters were required.

"Visitor buildings in Glacier NP are evacuated almost yearly when someones spray goes off."

Dave, when I was there last year, getting back to the Many Glacier parking lot, we walked past a car in which bear spray had accidentally been discharged. The really bad part is that it was a rental car.

My grandfather had some interesting stories about polar bears when he stayed in Cambridge Bay during the 1960s. Back then they relied on dogs (or Qimmit) to warn people of polar bears.

And indeed, Russians still rely on hunting dogs to warn the encampment of polar bears. While hunting dogs and sled-dogs often look alike: sled-dogs are usually tied up, while hunting dogs are left to gorge themselves on lemmings.

A lot of people up in the tundra and Arctic will say that polar bears are more oppurunitistic than black bears or grizzlies are though, and it’s wise to have some kind of alert system.

Well, to be fair, elk- and moose-hunters have the same problem with grizzlies as well. In my social group, hunters are constantly looking for the lightest electric fence since stories about being driven off the kill is becoming more common in the northern Rockies.

But in Svalbard, it’s pretty much required to carry a firearm. After all, we are talking about a creature which live in the harshest ecosystem in the world and living on the edge of life and death.

But I think nowadays people use flares instead of dogs.

BBC News – How to guard against polar bear attack an expert explains

And there is a good reason to have a sentry:

Sleeping Czech tourist survives polar bear attack on remote Arctic island

But I still wouldn’t pack a gun anyway. Just because it’s required in Svalbard, doesn’t means it is a reason to pack a gun because many Norwegians are fairly conservative in their approach to outdoormanship; at least the ones I have known through shared common interests.

And why shouldn’t we be progressive? Bear spray reportedly has worked on polar bears as well.

Polar Bear Attacks Surprisingly Rare

"My bear management plan: throw things at black bears, carry mace in Grizzly country. "

Years ago, we were coming into the Staircase campground in Olympic National Park to see a black bear slide down the road bank and head towards the lake, but it was headed down a point where there were lots of campers. We told the ranger what was going on and he went down and tossed M-80 firecrackers at the bear, which worked well.

An herbivore doesn't need a lot of brains to catch and eat grass and shrubs (e.g. cows). I wish moose had more brains – I'd spend less on new cars if they did, but they don't.

A predator that eats herbivores (e.g. black and grizzly bears) needs more brains to feed itself.

Then there are predators that eat predators (e.g. polar bears and orcas) or that steal from predators (e.g. humans). It takes the most brains to do that.

I worry far more about polar bears than black and grizzly bears. Add to that the environmental displacement polar bears are undergoing and even I – consistently unarmed and without pepper spray in grizzly-infested areas – would lean towards warning systems and multiple non-lethal and lethal responses in polar-bear areas.

"I wish moose had more brains – I'd spend less on new cars if they did, but they don't. "

I wish I had more brains. I'd spend less on new gear if I did, but I don't….

I put bear attacks here on the same danger level as… ok there has never actually been anyone killed by a bear here, so right up there with satellites falling on my head. It could happen, but it's not too damn likely. If I was hiking in the west I'd take it more seriously.

As with everything else to do with being in the woods you have to know the conditions of the places you're going to be.

I heard bears are repelled by windshirts.

forget bear spray, I’m bring Axe spray on my next trip.

I can see the headline now:

"Police believes an arsonist is involved in recently discovered burnt bear carcass."

"I worry far more about polar bears than black and grizzly bears."

Word. A friend of mine was doing archaeology on Baffin Island when a polar bear stuck its head into my friend's tent one night. He hosed the bear down with pepper spray. Naturally the bear left in a hurry, but my friend felt bad because the bear ended up tangerine colored.

Max,

There's a difference between OC (oleoresin capsicum) spray and mace. Between the two, I'd get, and use at work, OC spray. To my knowledge, bear spray is OC and not mace, at least my bear spray is.

If you buy the stuff for self defense against humans, typically your range is going to be 12 feet. Maybe more if you buy a canister with stream pattern and maybe less if you buy a cannister with conical mist/fog pattern. If that's all you had, and you wanted a multi purpose item for the front country, that might work against a lumbering curious bear but I'd hate to bet my life on it if I was at the receiving end of a bear charge. If you're going to carry anything, I'd stick with purpose built bear spray which typically has a range out to 30 or so feet.

I think there have been some fair comparisons made here, dogs being one of them. I encounter hundreds of dogs, 99.9999% of those encounters are fine, but occasionally there's an exception. A lady from my organization, who I don't know personally, was medically retired after being attacked by a Rottweiler and now suffers from permanent nerve damage in her leg. She was in pretty bad shape and the dog is smaller than most sub aduot bears.

Another comparison I'll make are seat belts. I'm 44 years old and have never been in a serious accident. I could have gone my whole life without wearing one, but click in every time I'm in a car because the risk isn't worth it for me. This is a decision I make multiple times per day that isn't based on fear, but risk mitigation.

Another thing to consider is that bear spray could save a bear's life. A nuisance bear who learns to fear and avoid humans after being sprayed is better than a nuisance bear who later becomes aggressive and gets shot by a fish and wildlife officer, as wa the case recently near JBLM.

It's highly unlikely that you'll ever get attacked by a bear, but if you ever are, bear spray is by far the best defense. I have access to several firearms, including a mil spec M4, and would always grab my bear spray first as that's my best chance for survival.

I carry OC spray most days at work. I once ruptured a canister after doing a belly flop in a parking lot during a foot pursuit. Other than this single incidence, I have thousands of days where I haven't had a problem with it. Whether or not you'll have a bad experience from a negligent discharge is totally up to you. Show a minimum amount of care, and you'll be fine. Attach it to your ruck and carelessly throw it onto a tour bus, and you may find yourself tarred and feathered by your fellow passengers.

Edit typos ala fat thumbs on iPad. Deal with it.