Another bear attack. Should I get some spray?

I've kinda thought the same thing regarding the spray. At least when I take my kids along with me.

IMO you’d be wise to carry a deterrent when hiking in bear country. I carry bear spray. The average bear is unlikely to be a problem, but a small percentage of bears out there are predatory.

The two best sources of info I’ve found are…

Safety in Bear Country – Dr. Tom Smith – 2012 NOLS Faculty Summit
NOLS – National Outdoor Leadership School

Video link

Backcountry Bear Basics: The Definitive Guide to Avoiding Unpleasant Encounters (Mountaineers Outdoor Basics) Paperback – November 1, 2006
by Dave Smith (Author)

(BPL won’t post the Amazon link.)

Also decent is…(though parts of it I wish I hadn’t read)..

Bear Attacks: Their Causes and Avoidance (revised edition) Paperback – May 1, 2002
by Stephen Herrero

(BPL won’t post the Amazon link.)

"1. Do I need to carry mace in the Northeast? I'm a tall, strong guy. If I were a very petite guy I would be much more likely to carry, but I have been pretty confident that I can scare off bears in the woods.

3. What tips can I follow when a bear (or mountain lion) exhibits predatory stalking behavior?"

1. You may be tall & strong, but you stand zero chance of putting up a fight against an adult black bear if it decides you're lunch. With that said – No one, and I literally mean no one, carries bear spray here in the Southeast. This is with two bears per square mile in the Smokies. Pretty much all bear incidents in my general area are food related(yep, keep sleeping with your food people) or a case of humans getting too close. I don't think you need it personally.

3. For a black bear, the most common advice is to stand tall and make a lot of noise. Never run. Throw rocks and sticks. If it still comes at you fight back with all you have.

Ryan

Are the Canadian and Massachusetts bears communicating/plotting/scheming against you or something? If they've advanced to that degree, I don't think a single bear spray even in a worn holster will help you.

EDIT: And had you considered bringing a friend who can't run as fast as you can?

As mentioned above, you might check out "Bear Attacks: Their Causes and Avoidance" by Stephen Herrero.

Prior to going into grizzly areas I've reread parts of this book to *calm* nervousness and put things into perspective.

I'm not an expert but I view black bears this way as well, "my opinion of black bears was similar to my opinion of stray dogs" with the caveat that stray dogs generally have less fear of humans.

"What tips can I follow when a bear (or mountain lion) exhibits predatory stalking behavior?"

Max,

I don't want this thread hijacked, and this is why am merely suggesting that you keep its focus on bears.

Leave the mountain lions for another thread.
I am not expert on cougars but based on what I have read up about them, they do not _exhibit_ predatory stalking behaviour.
They only exercise such behaviour without manifesting it in any way to the prey.
They just stalk you. You can't notice. Then they attack, and then it's done.

Now, back to bears….

I'll keep it to just bears. I'm not even 100% sure I'm in Mountain Lion territory in VT/MA/NH. I don't know if it's relevant to consider the northeast "Bear Country" as opposed to the Northwest- if I were dealing with Grizzlies this would be a very different conversation (although, I remember that Andrew Skurka video where he scared off a Griz with a trekking pole javelin).

As to my #1… I am not saying "Bring on a black bear, I want to FIGHT!"

Instead, I'm saying that I perceive a black bear attack to be like a 1 in 10,000,000 shot. If I happen to win the bear lottery, I have a much better chance of surviving than a child, or someone's great aunt. Does that mean I can leave the spray at home? Not sure.

I'm not particularly afraid of a bear encounter simply because it doesn't exist on my radar, but this recent canadian black bear incident is making me wonder if that's the wrong opinion.

I have considered getting a Marlin 1895 .45-70, a 12-guage pump-action shotgun or an African double-gun for bear defence. Everyone around here talk about carrying a gun all the time for bear defence.

But then I realized: I am using a shotgun loaded with birdshot while grouse-hunting which is probably one of the most dangerous activities which can frighten a bear. Alaskan guides say peppering a bear with buckshot or birdshot only makes them angry, and one should shoot to kill with a big calibre.

So I started thinking: why am I obsessed with acquiring a big-calibre rifle when I don't even carry one while grouse-hunting. The time involved in fiddling around for a slug, loading the shotgun and pulling the trigger … good in theory, but not with the limited window of oppurnity.

So I use bear spray (UDAP) all year around because of that. If I don't carry a rifle during the most dangerous time of the year, why am I even considering carrying a rifle at all? Handguns? Well, they're not legal to carry in Canada, so I am SOL there.

I don't like guns and won't carry or own one. Personal preference.

Here is a decent Glacier Park video. It is required viewing for anyone (or at least one member of the party) who camps in the backcountry. Most or all the guidelines would seem to be appropriate for both black and grizzly bears.

http://www.nps.gov/glac/learn/photosmultimedia/backcountry-safety-podcasts.htm

Yeah, over the last few years, I came to the conclusion guns are only really worth it for people who maintain old trails in groups (not uncommon for the caboose to carry a gun), planning to camp with minimal hiking, have a wilderness cabin or using alternative means of transportation on a horse, in a vehicle or boat.

Not only that, but guns are banned in national parks and most workplaces. So all those people working for Suncor or other companies still have to work in the bush without a gun. So, it's a really over-hyped fear in my opinion.

The average big-game hunters in North America don't even use the appropriate calibre for putting down a bear, so why should a hiker carry a gun? Even folks like Lars Monsen have pack-dogs, dog-sleds or canoe to carry the bulk of their gears.

So, for the solo hiker, bear spray is a blessing. It's quite liberating to know that there won't be any accidents on my watch and it doesn't require continuous combat-ready training to keep the skills sharp. Besides, I live in the city not in the countryside, so I don't really have the time to drive down to the local range 5 times a week to practice.

So, I like my UDAP. Haven't had to use it, but I did get it in my eyes once when I accidentally punctured the can.

""What tips can I follow when a bear (or mountain lion) exhibits predatory stalking behavior?"

Max,

I don't want this thread hijacked, and this is why am merely suggesting that you keep its focus on bears.

Leave the mountain lions for another thread.
I am not expert on cougars but based on what I have read up about them, they do not _exhibit_ predatory stalking behaviour.
They only exercise such behaviour without manifesting it in any way to the prey.
They just stalk you. You can't notice. Then they attack, and then it's done.

Now, back to bears…."

I will just chime in to say I personally know of two instances of people having standoffs with mountain lions. One woman had a fifteen minute encounter and did all we are taught to do, with the young mountain lion not backing off until she repeatedly threw rocks at it. A couple I know had a similar encounter and the cat looked like it left but it kept showing up not far from them, visible, for over a mile. I met one mountain lion on the trail but it lept away.

"So, for the solo hiker, bear spray is a blessing."

It is not a bad idea. However, I never carry my bear spray when I am in black bear country (e.g. Yosemite). I do carry it when I am in grizzly bear country (e.g. Yellowstone, Glacier).

Black bears have never seemed very predatory unless somebody gets between the sow and her cub. They just want your food!

Before my first recent trip to Yellowstone, I was concerned about how to protect myself from one grizzly that had been making bad news there, so I purchased bear spray. Of course, I never saw any grizzly close up.

Then I did a trip in Alaska (e.g. Denali, Katmai) and saw more brown bears than you could shake a stick at. Since I had to fly to Alaska, and since I could not fly with the bear spray that I owned, and since I was too cheap to buy a new one in Alaska since I would have to discard it for the return flight, I just skipped it.

If you have poor feelings about carrying the weight of bear spray, then consider carrying a marine hand flare. This is a flare similar to a highway emergency flare except that it ignites instantly with a pull-ring in the handle end. If you wave that at a bear, it will typically retreat. The bad news is that you still can't fly with it. More bad news is that some areas that have a forest fire problem will not allow you to ignite one of these since you stand a good chance of burning the place down. Still more bad news is that the hand flare only burns for one minute.

–B.G.–

We get a rogue black bear in Washington once in a very rare while. Bear cans are required in the National Parks and I always hang my food and smellies. Bear bells are an okay idea and may avoid sow and cub issues. I think spray is a good option and equally effective on feral dogs and two-legged snakes.

Aside from the politics of firearms, taking down a bear with a handgun is a borderline proposition at best. You really need a high caliber rifle or shotgun and the chances of rapid deployment and an effective shot are slim. The chances of connecting with spray are far better.

My dog alerts on many hikes and I always wonder what he senses. It could be deer or elk as well as bears or cougars. He sometimes gets up on his hind legs to catch a whiff and I generally move on with him on a leash.

>> young mountain lion not backing off until she repeatedly threw rocks at it

Indeed, one thing humans can do, WAY better than any other creature, is throw things. I'd think any creature would be pretty discouraged by being nailed in the face by a well-aimed rock. Except maybe a grizzly – just pissed off.

Sounds like you need to do some research Max. Everyone worries about Griz, but there have been plenty of fatal black bear attacks, from Arizona to Ontario to New Jersey. Some have been predatory, and not all from conditioned or old/sick bears.

Spray works, but has its limitations. The smaller personal defense canisters have much less range and duration than the name brand bear specific ones. All of them are relatively fragile and can easily go off accidentally, something which is not discussed nearly often enough. Visitor buildings in Glacier NP are evacuated almost yearly when someones spray goes off.

For reasons of marital harmony, I don't hunt. However, I do serve as a porter and cook on hunting trips and that earns a share of the meat (P.S. Spring black back, which walks on four legs and eats grass, taste like cow). We'll be heading out in 8 days for this year's trip.

If you choose to use a gun as a grizzly defense, it is obvious that you need a large caliber (.300 Win Mag, .338, .375, .458 or 12-gauge rifled slug). And I'd concur that you need a lot of gun for black bears, too. I've seen them run a lot after a solid hit from a .300 Win Mag and from a .338. So maybe they'd continue an attack in defense of cubs. I'd imagine the really loud bang and the wallop of a slug would put them off their feed if it was opportunistic feeding attack.

BUT, as others have noted and Herraro's statistics support, outcomes for humans are better with spray than with a gun. And spray weighs far less. And costs far less. And doesn't require as much training.

Still, for black bears?

"my opinion of black bears was similar to my opinion of stray dogs"

Exactly.

There are 20-30 fatalities due to dog each year in the US (and over 4 million bites, some of which are disabling and disfiguring). But those aren't national nor international news like a bear attack is.

This northern BC case mentions them going to bed at 1:30 am, him sleeping outside, and her inside the camper. Maybe they'd been partying? So there's a impaired human, asleep, in the open, and likely with food smells around where they'd been camping. Still a one-400-million occurrence, but because it was a bear (versus dog, bee, Salmonella, car, human, drunk driver, or slip&fall) we're all talking about it.

For hiking in black bear country, I use attitude. In grizzly country, I practice safe camping practices and make noise where there are poor sight lines. I wouldn't fault someone for carrying spray for grizzlies, although I don't.

It is almost universally agreed upon within the community of hunters that I know that bear spray is a MUCH more effective defense against bears (and other critters) than a gun.

Unless one has their firearm loaded, in hand, and are actively scouting for prey (i.e. hunting), there is almost no way you will be able to unsling your weapon, take aim, and otherwise prepare to defend yourself should a predatory animal get the jump on you.

On the other hand, bear spray will be easily accessible and have a wide margin for error when used, plus the added benefit of no accidentally fatal mishaps.

+1 to the links already posted.

For me, I'd answer as follows:
1. No need to carry spray in the US outside of Grizzly country; it's of no use to me while unconscious, and if I'm awake I can hopefully deter the bear without it. (I believe predatory black bears are somewhat more common in Canada, possible due to less exposure to humans.)

2. Bear spray != mace, and none of the containers I've seen are particularly lightweight.

3. Let it know you're aware of it, and try to scare it off. Waving things, loud noises, bluff charges, etc.

The odds of encountering a predatory black bear are… probably not as low as some think, but not particularly high either. I believe the most common scenario is an adult male bear stalking a solo hiker, as opposed to the sow+cubs or old/sick stereotype. So, when tallying bear-human encounters, you'd want to count only those with solo hikers, as more than one person is likely to deter a black bear. Also, not all stalking behavior will result in a kill. So, figure maybe one in every couple thousand bears you encounter might be predatory. If you rarely see bears, those are quite good odds. If you track them for research or hunting, eventually you'll run into one.

>"I believe predatory black bears are somewhat more common in Canada"

There does seem to be a regional difference in black bear behavior in the Northern Cascades and on into BC being more (but still rarely) aggressive / possibly predatory than black bears elsewhere in the 48 states.

I'm not an expert, but I think, as others have noted in other threads, it really comes down to what you need to enjoy your hike. Carry bear spray if it eases your mind and lets you enjoy your trip, it really isn't that heavy.

For a long time I felt rather silly carrying bear spray in southern NY and the Catskills. However, when you find yourself hiking on twisty-turny trails through hundreds of acres of forest densely covered with ripe blueberries and huckleberries, it doesn't seem like such a bad idea. Several times last summer and fall, in primo bear-feeding areas with very limited visibility, I actually held the spray in my hand while also paying close attention to wind direction. Just seemed prudent. Saw three bears last spring/summer, the closest about 30-40 yards, IIRC.

Then there was the fatal predatory attack in northern New Jersey last summer, with all information indicating the 5 day hikers did everything wrong. I've done much MTBing in that very area and have seen black bear there many times. Normally, they just run like hell. Once came around a bend in the trail and surprised a mama bear, close enough to hear her make a warning snort to the cubs and they scurried up some trees. But she stood her ground under the trees and indicated clearly that she was not to me messed with. I remember thinking how lucky it was that I didn't end up between them.

Now, I don't feel it's silly at all to carry bear spray.

Only one adult human has died as a result of a wild black bear in the Northeast since they've been keeping such statistics going back to 1830s. The one guy who died was a hunter and it is surmised that he shot the bear, thought it was dead, approached it and was mauled to death.

I wouldn't count that death against a black bear as it was wounded and defending itself from a hunter. It was not a hiker or backpacker that was hunted by a black bear.

That means exactly ZERO adult humans have been killed by a wild black bear in the Northeast.

We're assuming that bear spray actually works. All the evidence that I've seen is equivocal.

More applicable to Grizzly country really, but I think the false sense of security from bear spray can be quite dangerous. It can make people (usually young males) more likely to disregard other safety strategies that definitely do work – primarily only hiking in groups of 3/4 or more.