Another bear attack. Should I get some spray?

Is NJ not Northeast?

http://www.nj.com/passaic-county/index.ssf/2014/11/hiker_snapped_pictures_of_bear_before_fatal_attack_in_west_milford.html

This one from a few years ago. Admittedly, you got us on a technicality with "adult":

http://www.nytimes.com/2002/08/20/nyregion/catskill-bear-snatches-infant-from-stroller-and-kills-her.html

I remembered it from a few years ago.

The odds are extremely low, but they're not zero.

I will take my chances.
Could something happen to me…sure.
I stand a much greater chance of dieing in a fall, or a trip though, and Im not particularly worried about that either.

Getting off the couch and living, means you have to assume risks. There is no way around this. Most of the ways to die, are ways you dont even think about or worry about.

Carry bear spray, ignore heart disease….check.

>"I believe predatory black bears are somewhat more common in Canada"

Now that we have Obamacare in the U. S. I expect that the number of predatory bear attacks will only go up.

O.K. there does seem to be some truth to the quoted statement, but who knows why. I will say that in the Sierra, where bears are very familiar with humans, there do seem to be some ground rules established between the species. Respect the rules, and you're most likely o.k.

I once had the privilege of walking behind a bear that didn't know I was there for about four minutes. He was just ambling along in a good mood, rooting a bit. When he/she became aware of me, it turned, started to run, stopped with a body language that seemed to say 'wait a minute…',then turned back and clacked its teeth at me while swaying its head. I averted my gaze and in a very gentle voice said "that's fine, that's fine…". The bear eventually turned and casually walked away, and would have said, "good,that's established then,right?" if it could talk. I think that averting your eyes and speaking in calm low tones is a better strategy than throwing rocks and yelling when a black bear is in a threatening posture…perhaps. Or so the experts say.

I never felt threatened in this encounter. I'm unsure if I was reading the situation correctly, in terms of sensing the anger or fear of the bear as being low, or if I was just kidding myself. Anyway, it worked out.

Carry bear spray, ignore heart disease… check.

C'mon, it's not an either/or proposition. But I don't think I've ever seen a straw man set up and knocked down with such supreme efficiency.

Stafford said she considers the incident a fluke and it won’t stop her from hiking solo—though she might invest in a can of potent pepper spray to deter bears.

http://www.adirondackexplorer.org/stories/hiker-stabs-bear-face

I don't care whether or not you carry it. All I'm saying is that if someone chooses to it isn't the stupidest thing on the planet even if its efficacy is debatable.

While most bears are afraid people, there are a number of people who reported aggression with the species, but there is no real statistical tracking of those encounters; just people repeating their stories. Americans don’t like to believe it, but it had happened to me a few times along with other family members. I see it more often in the northern part of Canada wherep eople don’t frequent. In places like Greater Vancouver, Greater Victoria, Waterton Lakes, Jasper and Banff, they have hazing programs to deter problem bears. Southern Canada, near the American border, one would be lucky to see anything more than a bear’s behind.

Part of the problem is that we have limited funding for hazing programs, and most of our hunting populations are concentrated in large urban centers. So if one goes to a place which probably haven’t seen a human footprint in 10 years, they are pretty bold around people. Remember Canada is 90% unoccupied.

We had folks that came up here and said they have been around bears their entire lives in the States and Europe, but they never seen such confident bears before as they are here. And there’s a few documentaries featuring such encounters as well.

Here’s one clip of an encounter:

Lars Monsen – Across Canada [Eng Sub] E01P03

It’s in Norwegian, but should be subtitled in English. Remember, this is an outdoorsperson who have encountered hundreds of bears in his lifetime, and he had only shot one in self-defence (a polar bear). He did the right thing here by relocating because he would have been in deep legal troubles if he shot the bear; especially if there is evidence that he could had prevented an encounter from going sour.

Starts at 2:50 and ends at 7:45. The bear didn’t charge or try to take the person, but the behaviour is still problematic, and it certainly can explains why so many attacks occur in Canada.

But to be honest, I can tell the difference between a population which was heavily hunted with hounds and a population where they haven’t encountered dogs before.

I've encountered black bears along the trail in the Smokies and also in WV wilderness areas, including a former black bear sanctuary wilderness area (Cranberry). This includes while solo, with my wife, and with my entire family (4 young kids). Bears are hunted in WV, and you can really tell the difference in their general behavior towards humans. Along the trail, they always ran as soon as humans were spotted or heard. One night, while my wife and kids were asleep in the tents, I returned to camp from a 10 minute water filtering trip at the river. I heard one bear scurry into the woods as soon as I started making noise by shaking out a trash bag. I immediately talked loudly and shook trash bags, and I heard at least one more go the same route. I hadn't cleaned up or bear bagged after a late dinner, and the all of the food was quite a popular attraction.

Predators pick up on behavioral cues, and probably even olfactory ones emitted unintentionally when we're afraid. The worst thing to do is to run, as that's an immediate sign of being vulnerable prey. If you're being stalked, do the opposite of vulnerable prey: turn the tables and become the predator. Turn the fear into anger and excitement at the possibility of soon-to-be tasty meal.

This isn't just a bunch of psychobabble. It really works.

Three tribesmen steal fresh kill from 15 lions:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TBpu4DAvwI8

"Self-confidence is everything."

"Self-confidence is everything."

Wow… double-Wow… those guys have got some beach balls. :^)

Unbelievable.
It was just crying out for the "Reservoir Dogs" music as the three amigos walked off at the end with their prize.

This from: "Efficacy of Bear Spray in Alaska" (wdfw.wa.gov)

ABSTRACT We present a comprehensive look at a sample of bear spray incidents that occurred in Alaska, USA, from 1985 to 2006. We
analyzed 83 bear spray incidents involving brown bears (Ursus arctos; 61 cases, 74%), black bears (Ursus americanus; 20 cases, 24%), and polar
bears (Ursus maritimus; 2 cases, 2%). Of the 72 cases where persons sprayed bears to defend themselves, 50 (69%) involved brown bears, 20
(28%) black bears, and 2 (3%) polar bears. Red pepper spray stopped bears’ undesirable behavior 92% of the time when used on brown bears,
90%for black bears, and 100%for polar bears. Of all persons carrying sprays, 98%were uninjured by bears in close-range encounters. All bearinflicted
injuries (n¼3) associated with defensive spraying involved brown bears and were relatively minor (i.e., no hospitalization required). In
7% (5 of 71) of bear spray incidents, wind was reported to have interfered with spray accuracy, although it reached the bear in all cases. In 14%
(10 of 71) of bear spray incidents, users reported the spray having had negative side effects upon themselves, ranging from minor irritation
(11%, 8 of 71) to near incapacitation (3%, 2 of 71). Bear spray represents an effective alternative to lethal force and should be considered as an
option for personal safety for those recreating and working in bear country. (JOURNAL OF WILDLIFE MANAGEMENT 72(3):640–645;
2008)

FWIW, I've been carrying my 10 oz. bear spray for about 25 years and never really needed it, even though I hike almost exclusively in Griz country. Last year, I had my closest encounter. It was with a Blackie and cub. I stopped to graze on a patch of huckleberries and heard this 'huffing' sound, like a runner breathing hard. Looked around just in time to see cub about 10 feet away scrambling up a tree with mama after it. She only went a few feet up, ready to jump down and attack if necessary, but relatively calm given she was between me and the cub. I pulled out the spray, removed the safety clip (I disagree that they are easily, accidentally fired), and had it at the ready, while attempting to sing something soothing. Unfortunately, the only song that came to mind was the Battle Hymn Of the Republic, specifically the line: "He has loosed the fateful lightning of his terrible swift sword…" Go figure. Nevertheless, in that circumstance, I made it sound like a lullaby. Due to the angle of the tree where the bear was, in order to move down the trail, I had to actually move closer to her (while singing a war song).
Everything turned out fine (obviously); she stayed treed and I skipped joyfully down the trail, suddenly noticing how colorful everything was. The point of my story is: that moment made carrying the extra weight of spray for many years worth every calorie expended. I felt confident I could deter an attack, which helped me to remain (relatively) calm and reassuring to the bear.

Thanks Dan, looking at it now. The full paper is here:

http://wdfw.wa.gov/hunting/bear_cougar/bear/files/JWM_BearSprayAlaska.pdf

Great story. In the future, may I suggest,

"This land is your land, this land is our land. . . ."

"Predators pick up on behavioral cues, and probably even olfactory ones emitted unintentionally when we're afraid."

Yeah, like a sudden need for clean undershorts!

"I felt confident I could deter an attack, which helped me to remain (relatively) calm and reassuring to the bear."

Perfect summary of exactly why I believe bear spray to be the most effective bear deterrent. I'm a firm believer that human behaviour is the largest factor in determining the outcomes of human/bear conflicts.

"Part of the problem is that we have limited funding for hazing programs, and most of our hunting populations are concentrated in large urban centers. So if one goes to a place which probably haven't seen a human footprint in 10 years, they are pretty bold around people. Remember Canada is 90% unoccupied."

I've lived in the Yukon for the past 4 years and have had encounters with both black and grizzly bears. In all scenarios, the bears either showed a marked indifference to our presence and let us be, or took off as soon as they had our scent. With such an amazing olfactory system, my theory is that bears that aren't habituated to humans know better than to stick around when they smell us disgusting creatures.

Cheers…

The issue is a subtle one, though. For sure, if I'm on my own facing a grizzly, I'd rather have bear spray than not. But would I be in that position at all if I didn't have the reassurance of a bear spray in the first place? Maybe I'd just stay much safer by not hiking alone in grizzly territory. It's extremely difficult to get reliable data on the overall effect of a perception (real or not) that bear spray makes you safer.

There's a similar issue with bicycle helmets. There's no question that if you're flying over the handlebars toward a car windscreen you're better off with a helmet on your head than not. But overall, the evidence suggests that helmet use does not reduce injury and mortality rates. It's counterintuitive, but the reason is simply that people wearing helmets are less conservative in their riding, and get into more accidents. There's even evidence that car drivers give helmet-wearing cyclists less clearance when passing.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Risk_compensation

"I've lived in the Yukon for the past 4 years and have had encounters with both black and grizzly bears. In all scenarios, the bears either showed a marked indifference to our presence and let us be, or took off as soon as they had our scent. With such an amazing olfactory system, my theory is that bears that aren't habituated to humans know better than to stick around when they smell us disgusting creatures."

Yeah. I noticed bears in Kootenays and Vancouver Island are wussies, especially around dogs. But the bears between Fort Nelson and Watson Lake don't really care. Same for bears in NWT. The only thing one can do with bold bears which insist on hanging around is pack up and go somewhere else.

Ralph: "There's a similar issue with bicycle helmets."

That was also the case with Anti-lock Braking Systems when they first came out in the early 1980's. Of course they'd help, it seemed. You could stop faster in any condition AND avoid skids. But they didn't. Because people knew they had them and drove faster as a result.

It gets even worse with 4WD. People drive faster in the snow "because I have 4WD" when, actually, it only helps you get going, not to stop or turn.

When facing the bear, I want all the confidence I can muster.

But when making decisions – to go alone or in a group, bring the dog or not, make noise or not – I try to NOT be over confident.

Okay, bear spray gets mixed opinions, fair enough. But in certain NPs (I only checked Yosemite and SEKI), possession & use of bear spray is prohibited.
Why is that the case? I get the argument that bears in the US have been hunted and are more careful in comparison to their Canadian counterparts. But in order to ban bear spray completely, I feel like there has to be a definitve certainty that bear encounters usually go well – including some safety margin for people making mistakes when crossing the pass of a bear. Could somebody elucidate the logic behind this policy to me?

Theo, here's someone's thoughts from TripAdvisor when asked that Q:

1. No bear related human fatalities in the history of the park.

2. No longer any grizzly bears in the park.

3. The rangers I've encountered in the campgrounds who specifically work with bears (keeping them out of campgrounds and such) also don't carry bear spray and have told me they don't feel the need to in Yosemite. They've also told me that no rangers in Yosemite, wildlife rangers, educators, campground, law enforcement… None of them carry bear spray.

4. I have encountered bears eating people food in Yosemite (picnic areas and parking) . I've done what the Rangers describe to do, which is very aggressive and persistent yelling, and I've had good success scaring bears off with just that. Note that I'm not particularly large in stature.

5. I have solo hiked a fair amount in Yosemite (again not large in stature) and have encountered bears, even a mother with cubs, and never had an issue. Now hiking in glacier np and Yellowstone np, I gotta say I was freaked out, and wouldn't solo hike there because of my own comfort level. But Yosemite is a whole different ball game.

6. At a ranger led walk about bears, the ranger said that there have not been instances on Yosemite trails where bears are surprised by hikers, and then attack. This is obviously not the case in other national parks, particularly those with grizzlies.

_______________________

David back again. In all my trips to Yosemite (50-ish), I don't disagree with anything that poster wrote. I'd add (and I'm theorizing here): millions of people each year, maybe 100,000 with pepper spray in park buildings, tents, outhouses, shuttle buses, and stores? What could possibly go wrong? I see enough yee-haws hiking in Yosemite with 10-inch-blade "survival knives" (in case the ground squirrel attacks?) and city slickers on Alaska trails packing a 9mm auto or .44 magnum as "bear protection" (inadequate rounds for grizzlies) that if I were a ranger in Yosemite, I'd rather tourists weren't packing pepper spray.

Good question! I suspect the main reason is that the Yosemite bears are quite familiar with humans, but wouldn't be at all surprised if it was also there to act as an "idiot filter". Since Yosemite is essentially Disneyland, you'd probably end up with an accidental discharge rate of something like one per tourist bus per day, in additional to the crossfires that are likely to happen every time a touron thinks he hears a bear.

(Ok, maybe that's a bit over the top.)

So, after a bit more clicking around, I see a blog post that has a supposed reply from the park biologist:

"In Yosemite National Park, the American black bear is the only bear species that calls this region home. Though still a wild animal that demands respect, we have no record of fatalities or maulings related to black bears in Yosemite. Bear spray is a weapon that has the tendency to be more of a safety and health risk for those carrying it than it is a useful tool in Yosemite. However, this is a tool that may be necessary and a recommendation for other National Parks that have other bear species in addition to the American black bear. With proper food storage and maintaining a safe distance from Yosemite bears, many negative issues are mitigated and our visitors remain relatively safe. We hope you find this helpful"

Kirsten Randolph
National Park Service
Yosemite National Park

source: http://www.mylifeoutdoors.com/2013/05/yosemite-bear-spray-ban-why-park-system.html

So, my guess seems to be correct: mellow bears + idiot filter.

I don't see any downside to carrying bear spray unless you count the extra 10 ounces. I never do Kodiak backcountry trips without the stuff, but then I run into a couple of brown bears a day doing that. :^)

"Okay, bear spray gets mixed opinions, fair enough. But in certain NPs (I only checked Yosemite and SEKI), possession & use of bear spray is prohibited.
Why is that the case?"

As I had previously stated, black bears (e.g. Yosemite and SEKI) really do not want to have anything to do with humans, except that they want your food. It is plain and simple. They know that humans have food stashed around them somewhere, especially when they are backpackers and when they are car campers. They will go out of their way to smell for food, look for food, and even go by memory to where the food once was. But, they don't want much to do with all of the evil that humans can subject the poor bear to. The marginal exception to all of this is when there is a sow bear and the human gets too close to her cub. Them she will come after the human to drive him away. If the human is exceptionally stupid and touches the cub or doesn't back off when the sow bear charges, then the human may feel the wrath of the bear.

NPS understands that black bears in Yosemite and SEKI aren't predatory toward humans, so there is absolutely no purpose in subjecting them to bear spray and all that. Therefore, NPS prohibits the use of bear spray in those parks. Yosemite black bears are more like oversized wild dogs.

A completely different story is in Yellowstone and Glacier where there are grizzly bears in amongst the black bears.

–B.G.–

…

The Census Bureau has defined the Northeast region as comprising nine states: the New England states of Connecticut, Maine, Massachusetts, New Hampshire, Rhode Island, and Vermont; and the Mid-Atlantic states of New Jersey, New York, and Pennsylvania.[1][a] This definition has been essentially unchanged since 1880, and is widely used as a standard for data tabulation.[7][8][9][10]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northeastern_United_States

Read all about it.

I think you're confusing Northeast with New England, perfesser.

You are correct about the geographic region. I guess I was the one sleeping.

The bottom line here is that the number of deaths is in the lower 48 in general and the Northeast in particular is almost incalculable when you measure the deaths by the number of human excursions into the outdoors.

Is it zero? Of course not, but there are a lot of zeros the the right of the "0."