Never buying from REI again

I have a pair of Sahara pants, and they are completely threadbare at the ankles where my feet sometimes rub together. The fabric is very thin, and I guess I've gotten a reasonable life out of them. I put some Tenacious Tape over the areas, and I'll keep using them until they fall apart. I doubt it's cost-effective for them to repair stuff like this since making new ones must be cheap, but I would at least expect them to help you out, like offer a replacement at cost.

I like REI if I need something right away, or for stuff that's too bulky to ship, like my Thule roof box. Or when they have a coupon since their coupons are less restricted like ones from Backcountry.com which exclude most of the good brands. Or for things that are impractical to buy online, like boots. Even then, their boot selection is a bit limited, so sometimes I'll risk it and get a pair online.

Sorry to hear that, might want to ask for the manager if you went to a store. I have gotten two pair of the Sahara pants, holding up well for me. Like you, get worn a few weeks a year for vacation or group trips.
Duane

expecting a company to honor old policies, instead of current ones doesn't seem reasonable to me. You should have taken them back when they announced the policy change.

Also REI membership is a one-time charge. No need to ask for canceling membership… that's just silly.

I have now and have had in the past a few different brands of nylon pants, from REI and others. Yes they do wear out with use especially when rubbing against rock, or tear when caught in brush.

Your expectation that a $40 nylon garment would last forever is somewhat unreasonable IMHO. It's another matter were it a trekking pole, or tent or another "hard" good.

Fabric does wear with use!

I'm not advocating buying or not from REI or another vendor: just taking issue with your premise that somehow REI owes you a "lifetime" warranty on a piece of fabric!

BTW, the warranty is for the "lifetime" of the item, not for the "lifetime" of the customer buying said item. Often a point of confusion among indignant customers that misunderstood the original warranty when buying the item. ;)

Yes I've been a long time REI "member" (whatever that means….), have bought stuff from them over the years and am familiar with their warranty and also familiar with the recent changes to their warranty. I've personally seen the previous REI "lifetime" warranty abused by people so I'm not surprised REI had to make changes to shield themselves against the potential abuse.

I thought that the unlimited returns was a limited time thing after the policy change. I understood the grace period for things bought before the change was a year. I could be misremembering that.

since I buy new pants frequently after ripping the butt out of them while climbing things or ducking under fallen trees, ( A few random holes who cares ) I really don't expect my money back. If I wear it out, I'm just going to get a new one. One pair, the backside got so paperthin you could see through it.

I was never one to return things unless it was really broken, not worn out. I knew somebody who was actually suspended from returning things prior to the policy change, because she took so many things back and got different things with the refund that it came to everybody's attention. policy abuse was the whole reason for the change. That is why we can't have nice things.

Who decides what the "lifetime" of a product is? How do they know how much use or what kind of use it has gotten?
Lifetime of the product warranties are just a way for the company to retain all power. It does not mean anything, it's not even an actual warranty in any sense. You have to trust the integrity of the company you are buying from.
The phrase "lifetime warranty" in reference to the lifetime of the product, not the lifetime of a consumer, is intended to be deceptive. If it wasn't meant to be deceptive they would just say "warranty against defects" which is what it really is.

"expecting a company to honor old policies, instead of current ones doesn't seem reasonable to me."

Being able to change the terms of a contract unilaterally is unreasonable to me. I understand why REI changed their policy and it's certainly their right to do so. But one party can't change the rules after taking another's money (at least without going to court, if contested). Simple contract law, my law professor family member says.

I'd call the customer support line. I've had reasonable friends who received much better treatment after getting the run around from store staff.

I received a pair of their pants as a gift but I never wear them as I find my TNF pants to have better features and are more comfortable. I should PIF them here in Gear Swap as they are just never getting used.

(TMI from here on out)

Apparently crotch friction and nylon pants don't mix so I'll need to have my TNF pants sewn up to see if I can get another season out of them.

So what seem are you having trouble with? Is it in an area that gets a lot of friction or just a result of shoddy workmanship?

Another clickable thread title that's not worth the trouble. Brett you are an incredibly hard to please consumer. I've read your posts through the years and man, you have unrealistic expectations from a lot of manufacturers. Add in your non average size and and that makes things even harder for you to get something that works off the shelf. Plus you hate to spend money. You can't win. Don't spend money at REI and that basically nulls you membership. Were you expecting to get your $15 or whatever they charge to join back?

REI is a giant retailer now and charges full list price on most things so that can make money on your money to be able to give you a portion of that back. I think they had less than a dozen stores when I joined.

I just returned my wifes sleeping bag today (long story, which I won't bore
you with) which purchased was 3 years ago and they were great to deal with.

The thing was the pants did not look worn, I wore them to work sometimes and maybe had a full 3 months on them total. They looked good. It is just that seams on them would break and then just keep getting worse. I bought them under the old policy and they said they would still be honoring that when I called them up to ask about it when they changed it. I don’t expect them to last forever but I was thinking I should be able to get a good full year’s use out of them for $60. I don’t care about lifetime but they should be able to hold up more than the Wal-Mart crap I have bought. They don’t look worn at all but the seams on the keep splitting. Right now it is for a pocket, a belt loop and an ankle cuff.

As for the membership, that is what I was told. I would have never purchased it if it was a one time charge.

And now stuff is a year. Stain that fleece slightly before a whole seam rips? Scratch a pole before it snaps under normal load? You have now voided the warranty according to one of their supervisors and they can do nothing for you. Nice.

And I am sorry if I am a hard customer to please but I also expect something out of the money I pay for things. I work hard for my money and if I am buying something for it I expect to get an equal value. I don’t make a lot so I have to be thrifty with what I have. Sorry, I can’t keep buying items every year or two because they fail or crap out. If a garment costs me over $75 I should be able to wear it every day for a year without it falling apart. Some wear is fine, but really?

DriDucks, 3 years and going strong. Same with the R2. I can get about 5 years out of a pair of Ex Officos. Socks are Darn Tough and haven’t failed yet. Most of the rest of the stuff is OR which I have had a few problems with but never an issue with OR. Heck, half the time they send me a prepaid postage to return something that has failed within a year or two.

I also buy clothes from other stores. Guess what return policy I expect on stained clothing from them ?

REI is pretty darn generous.

I can't keep garments pristine while I wait for them to fail. Sorry.

I called REI and talked to a few supervisors. None of them would give the full skinny of the report that the returns lady did but I was able to wheedle out from them that she had said it had multiple holes and paint on it which it did not. I asked to talk to the lady who made the ruling and was denied. I asked them to explain the policy or wear and tear that they were using and they said it was up to her and would not elaborate further. I asked if there was an appeal or recourse and was denied. I even offered to send them back in. They would not address the issues I had and kept repeatedly saying that that is what they pay her for and they are going to stand behind her. REPEATEDLY. Nice customer service. I am glad I did not vote for the CEO when she came up in the Sierra Club elections now.

And apparently there was no lifetime, it was 100% satisfaction and since they had a hole that was voided even though there was manufacturing defects in the item.

oh well. back to just buying used stuff then and saving the money. I guess it is not a real loss because the new stuff does not fit like the old stuff and a lot of people are not happy about it.

The sole reason i buy some things at REI and am a member is because if i have any type of issue, or just change my mind about a product after a use or two, i know they will do a return within a year. I have returned things multiple times as well as had family that had problems with items and every single time it was taken care of.

I dont understand how you could expect your 20 dollar membership fee back, which by all accounts you paid years ago. Im guessing you have gotten quadruple that back over the years in your dividend. If it was a place like Costco where you have to renew your membership every year, i might understand, but not here. Saying you would never have became a member if you knew it was non refundable seems patently false, IMHO, since it seems you've been a member for years, receiving dividends and reaping the reward of their return policy many times before this scenario. Good luck finding somewhere with a better returns policy (besides Costco).

Brett has a point here. Even under the current terms, REI has a lifetime warranty on everything it sells (which is different from a lifetime return policy, which they used to have). If I buy something from them, I expect it to be manufactured to standards that would keep it useful for its reasonable life expectancy.

For clothing, I expect the stitching to last at least as long as the fabric. Normal wear is one thing, but if stitches start separating on me while the fabric is still fine that tells me they cut corners in manufacturing the garment. And I expect that warranty to still apply regardless of cosmetic condition. If I spill soda on my car's upholstery should that void the drivetrain warranty?

and would hate to deal with a customer like brett. Seriously.. you've had the pants for TWO YEARS! Eat the 40 bucks, buy a new pair, or patch them yourself.

For the sake of those poor REI employees… don't shop there anymore!

I echo what Jonathan Chin said. Lifetime return policy is what they had before the change, and they still need to honor that. This is common sense, though their customer service reps tend to try to push you around on this issue.

Steve

> Seriously.. you've had the pants for TWO YEARS! Eat the 40 bucks, buy a new pair, or patch them yourself.

A giant +1.

So ridiculous.

"and would hate to deal with a customer like brett. Seriously.. you've had the pants for TWO YEARS! Eat the 40 bucks, buy a new pair, or patch them yourself."

Dude, who cares if he owned it for two years! That doesn't tell you how much he used it.

I might use a pair of snowshoes once a year but if I use it 5 times and they break on me, doesn't matter how long I've owned it. That's still a valid warranty issue.

Not saying I agree that Brett pants deserve a refund, but his length of owning them does not indicate anything about how much they were used.

Last year there just wasn't anything at REI I wanted to buy.

I used to buy butane canisters, but the ones at Freddies are cheaper, even with the REI 20% off coupon.

I'm member 257xxx

"but his length of owning them does not indicate anything about how much they were used."

And that is why REI changed their "Satisfaction Guarentee" policy to one year, not for ever and ever.

They figure you can thrash your garmet for 364 days, bring them back, say the magic words: "I'M NOT SATISFIED"….

And you will get your refund.

In relation to stores out there, that's not bad.

Their "Limited Warranty" clearly says it covers manufacturing defects, but not damage caused by normal wear and tear.

The "Warranty" and the "Guarantee" are two separate things. If you come in feeling 100% satisfied with your purchase, but believe a product has a warranty issue, that is handled differently and with more scrutiny.

And I do understand they now have a 3rd party repair company partnership. This may also affect how they determine what is defective vs. wear & tear (since the latter IS NOT COVERED under REI's policy.)

Remember folks. They changed it because people blatantly abused it to the point that it was called "Return Everything Incorporated".

As a former employee, I saw too much. I'm glad they changed it.

>Dude, who cares if he owned it for two years! That doesn't tell you how much he used it.

>I might use a pair of snowshoes once a year but if I use it 5 times and they break on me, doesn't matter how long I've owned it. >That's still a valid warranty issue.

These aren't snowshoes. There is a reason hard goods have different warranties than soft goods.

A business has no way to evaluate how many times he used them except visually. If you have something for 2 years, it has a hole, and the seams are starting to go… well i'd say you used them.

sheesh… last post in this thread. Somebody throw up a D***weed line.

@Ian B. I have a few pair of convertible nylon TNF pants from 2000. One zipper came loose and they have got a few small holes over the years but they are still holding up after 15 years just fine although a bit small now :).

And I really never got my full membership back in refunds because the pants were about the only thing I bought from them. You can find cheaper deals elsewhere and I have.

I wasn’t caring about the hole and not asking them to fix it, just the seams, which were a manufacturing defect. Except for the hole, the fabric on the pants is fine. The fabric does not show wear or tear otherwise and I just worn them to my job at the University a week before I sent them in. If they would have sent it to a third part to be resewn I would have been peachy-keen fine. I really don’t want them replaced because they REALLY don’t make them like the used to and the new ones probably won’t fit. I have another pair which has almost no flaws but the seams on one of the inside pockets for a zipper is going. I don’t think I am going to waste the $7 to send them in just so they can send them back to me because at some point a may have farted in them.

@ Dave T, Andy E, etc. Actually, Sahara pants cost me about $60 after the tax. I know some of you said I should just eat the cost because they only cost about $40. If you are so rich, please feel free to PM me and I will give you my address to send me your money to. Thanks.

As an aside, a few years ago I bought a pair of Omni gloves from OR. Just loved them. Wore them every day to work for a whole winter. But toward the end of the winter I noticed that the seams on the right glove were starting to go out on two fingers. I called OR up to ask if this was normal and what should I do. I didn’t get a bunch of legal exemption wrangling from the customer service person. They asked for my name, address and phone number. They then sincerely apologized for the gloves not standing up and told me they were sending a new pair out to me along with a return label to send the old ones back. I hadn’t even asked for a new pair! I still have that pair that they sent me and still use them every winter. No problems or issues.