Trekking poles up hill adjustment

[Franco Darioli]

I always shortened my poles going up hill.
In a recent thread someone suggested that the correct way is in fact to have them longer and rather than sort of balancing/pulling at the front they should be used to push having the poles behind you .
This was the comment :
I would not want shorter poles for going up hill.. just the opposite… I want longer poles to reach behind and down so I can push my self up the hill; I do note put the pole in front going up hill to pull myself up as he said.
Does anyone do that ?
I am interested in learning how to do that, photos would be of help because I just can't figure out how to hold them to be able do it.

[jscott]

I'm picturing something like the double-pole that Nordic skate skiers use. (Skate skiers use much longer poles than classic skiers.) The thing is, your leg muscles are much, much stronger than your arm/upper body muscles. It seems more rational to use leg muscles to power up hill. But perhaps the combination of pushing from behind with poles/stepping up would work.

[Billy Ray]

Jeffery…

what I was referring to in the quote was x/c skiing, but classic diagonal stride technique; not skating.

I imagine you can find a utube vid that demonstrates it…

Being an x/c skier of many decades I never even considered using trekking poles any other way…

Billy

[Cayenne Redmonk]

I push from the tricep, like a freestyle swimming stroke.
Short enough poles to get leverage to push.
I'm in the 'how are those long poles going to work ?" camp.

For me, the stroke starts out front, about where my toes end +/- 5 inches. I Step into the stroke and as the pole goes past the leg, aim for 40-60 degrees of elbow bend. I try to finish the stroke with an explosive push of the palm against the strap using the tricep to drive the extension of the arm. I finish my stroke well behind, with the arm extended fully.

The ideal elbow bend to push through the extension determines my pole length on flats and uphills.

[Jeffs Eleven]

I'm with Cameron.

Short poles. I keep them close to me.

When I kept them longer, to pull myself, I ended up bending at the waist and all my pack weight was on my lower back

[Todd T]

Uphill or down, the poles are slightly on the downhill side of me (slightly behind going up, slightly in front going down) so…same length. Which is shorter than the "90 degree elbow" advice that, best I can tell, comes from snow sports experience. I recommend starting with poles at navel length and adjusting to taste from there. (For me that's almost 7 inches less than the 90-degree advice.)

[Ken Thompson]

I never adjust the length of my poles either.

[Katherine .]

I will sometimes grip lower down on the pole, the BD carbon corks have a nice extra bit below the main handle that works well for that. But too much of a PITA to readjust.

[jscott]

Billy, I'm a cross country skier too. From what was quoted, I was picturing the skate double pole. But classic stride technique makes more sense. I guess I push off too in some scenarios: it's sort of second nature. Many people use their trekking pole straps like cross country skiers too, that is, weighting the straps instead of only gripping the poles.

[Rick Reno]

I know, I know…

I'll be accused of advertising, but that's OK.

Take a look at the Pacer Poles site
http://www.pacerpole.com/pacerpole-user-guide/basic-ascents

It took me a while to understand what they meant by "pulling uphill with conventional poles, but once you get it, it makes a lot of sense; and the wrist position is a greater paradigm shift than you'd think.

Just my 2¢. I've had mine for a couple years and will never go back.

Disclaimer: I have nothing to do with the company and paid full retail.

[Adam Kilpatrick]

Mine are set at 111cm (I'm 175cm tall), which seems to be at about the ~standard parallel forearms level (or just a little higher). I never adjust them. If I knew I was about to do a really long downhill section (eg over 45mins or so) I might ADD a couple more cm to the pole but that would be it.

When the going gets really steep I either grip down the pole, or, keeping holding normally (good straps help) and reach high with them, arms go high, and push all the way down through until they are behind me. At the top of the action I'm using my back muscles, by the bottom its more tricep/chest. I kind of evolved this action naturally however it might be less fatiguing overall than a short pole action that only uses triceps.

I think snowshoeing a bit in Japan with poles, set much longer than you would for a trekking pole (eg I used about 130-135cm) helped me develop this action. On a steep uphill on firm icey snow, don't get that pole sink, so, its using a 135cm pole going uphill. For short uphills, like a couple of metres, its much easier to just do this in one or two actions rather than many smaller ones. Actually this was the case on soft sinking powder too, for me.

When the going gets very steep, unless you are extremely extremely fit and able to keep up your pace (eg 4-5kph pace), you are getting in the realms where moving each pole in same sequence as each foot is no longer really needed, in my experience. Its easier to say plant both poles ahead of you together, then go through this long action, and take multiple steps, poles in place. Then do a double pole replant in front, repeat. You get a momentary point where both poles are mid-air, but this is probably ~1 step out of several in a cycle-all the other steps are effectively double poled, so more stability and assistance than flat single pole single step walking in sync.

Optimum pitch height for me with my gatewood cape seems to be around 112-113cm. I'm keen to make a set of CF fixed poles soon, I'll add that cm or two to them. I don't envisage problems at all in trekking pole use. In fact I think it might be better overall if I'm running a little higher. I'll test this on my adjustables before I make the decision, but not expecting it to be a problem.

[James Marco]

Yes, and no.

I use a single piece pole. It doesn't have adjustments. It is about 45" long, hollow carbon and weighs about 4oz.

I use an extra long strap. The loop is down around 10-12" long. So, I never adjust my pole, but I do adjust my grip. When I am going up hill, I usually drop my hand down in the loop. Now this takes about 2-3 seconds because I use it like a set of ski poles. Then I push up, helping the climb.(I usually don't grip it though, it is usually a two fingered aim then the strap picks up the weight.) This has the effect of shortening the "pole" making me plant it at every step. It pushes me up with every step, too.

Down hill, I often spin the strap three, sometimes four times. This lifts the strap up about 5-6" so my hand rests very near the top. Sometimes, I will put it in my palm as I step down. Every step it catches part of my weight on descents or downhills. Sometimes as I skip rocks (about the same as across a stream,) I hold it to help with balance, more than to help support my weight. I am moving too fast to use it as a staff.

On level ground, it doesn't matter. I often slip it under my arm and just hike…dead weight.

45" is also a good length for a pole for my tarp. I can slip it to one side in windy weather and still use it.

[John Vance]

I don't adjust mine either. Going downhill I sometimes put my hands on top of the grips and going uphill sometimes I drop my hand in the strap and grasp the pole below the grip. I started using fixed length downhill ski poles in 1983 while hiking the PCT due to knee problems and continued using the same poles until 2006 or so. They lasted some 6,000 miles over the years with pole tip replacements every 1,500 miles or so. I adapted my technique to fixed length poles and the habits have stuck. The only time I change the length is when I am using a shelter that requires it.

[Owen McMurrey]

Downhill my hand rides on top of the pole. Uphill I grip them normally, and just bring them higher when it gets steep. On extremely steep climbs, I use the lower grips provided on my BD Trails, and increase my reach as necessary. I never adjust the length.

Thought of this thread this week, and even took a few pics with it in mind.
The technique questioned in the OP seemed silly to me, but I guess people have different ideas of uphill. I actually tried it "just to see".
Along with putting you at a huge mechanical disadvantage, I can't imagine what you'd push off of if it's so steep that you need the poles for more than balance to begin with. I do hike a lot of steep terrain, though.

Steep:

Steeper:

Steepest(not unusual from getting off-trail into gorges chasing hidden waterfalls):

Definitely not seeing much to push off of!

[James Marco]

Owen, I see lots of places where a staff would be handy, up and down. The "stairs" in the second pic are really not bad, just kind'of tough on knees when carrying a 20# pack.

To each his own. Skipping down or up boulders is much different, often going up/down 45 degree or more grades. Trouble is, in the ADK's, there are very, very few switchbacks on the trails. Most trails go nearly straight up or down. I don't think I have ever hiked a day where I did not have at least one climb and descent from somewhere. Many have local names but are not often on the maps.

[Bob Moulder]

+1 Pretty much what Owen said…

This is all highly subjective depending upon the nature of the trail. There are some areas in the Northeast USA that are so sketchy and scrambly that it's best to not even try to use poles but rather to concentrate on foot placement. Such as great gobs of the aptly-named Devil's Path in the Catskills. There are even a few sections of trail in humble little Harriman State Park, NY, that are dead flat where trekking poles are only going to get in your way.

I did a bunch of experimentation last year and found that I am actually faster and more comfortable using strapless, fixed-length trekking poles (120cm BD UD z's). For uphill, the grips have that natty little finger rest lower on the long grip that lets me "choke up" and position my hands about 4-5" down.

Where I hike, the idea of putting the poles behind one and pushing off is just not practical. On steep uphills, what actually ends up happening almost all the time is that I place them as far forward as possible — with a good, solid plant — and leave them there until I'm comfortably past that point and plant them forward again.

[Franco Darioli]

Well , I still haven't seen a photo or video to show me how pushing with the poles behind you is at all possible going up hill and yes I meant real up hill not a false flat type ground.
(I do it occasionally on flat ground…)
Anyway , I was somewhat perplexed when the idea came up and nobody questioned how it could be done.

[Jake D]

real steep Owen ;) (huntingtons ravine NH) no poles for this one (sorry for the sideways)

[Andy Blackwell]

If the ground is suitable for it, I lengthen my trekking poles on the moderate uphill slopes that aren't too terribly rocky. I lean forward a bit, push the pole into the ground an inch or two behind my heel and then extend my elbow/push down with my upper arm/shoulder so it pushes me forward up the hill.

It only works on a relatively even trail at a moderate slope. If its stairs or rocky or really uneven, it becomes a little too much trouble to be worth it.

[Cameron M]

As I am a swimmer I dig in hard going uphill. I cannot imagine pushing behind very much. Like in swimming, most all the power is upfront, synchronized like nordic skiing. I usually don't bother lengthening downhill but it does make sense to do so in some situations. I use my grip uphill, the straps do less work than downhill where I PUSH my palms against the straps. Sitting the palms against the top of the pole works also, and is a relief to the hands after gripping while climbing a few thousand feet.

Komperdell, Leki and Black Diamond have all come out with new light carbon models that have one elegant height adjustment at the top.

[Bean]

A person in my life that I won't identify publicly, spent a lot of time adjusting their poles on almost every dip and rise of a trail. As a "gift" I upgraded them to some lighter fixed length Black Diamond Distance Z-poles. They didn't seem to notice that they couldn't adjust them, and got up and down hills just fine (maybe better than before).

For them, just taking away the option of adjusting the poles, they somehow figure out the mechanics of using longer poles length and never questioned it.

Myself, I like to have my poles maxed out on length, and I plant my poles almost vertical about as far away from myself as possible (like I'm planting a flag). Then I pull as straight down on the pole as I can, allowing my elbow to chicken wing to the side, as my chest pulls into my hand. Feels a little like getting out of the deep end of a pool on a ladder, pulling yourself up and forward.

[Richard May]

For whatever it means my poles are long enough that, with my elbow at 90deg, the poles lean forward a little even when reaching out on the forward step. My arms swing alternate to my feet as when walking naturally. The way it feels when walking, flat or uphill, is that I'm getting a little umph from my arms–my feet feel a little lighter.

By the end of the day my arms feel like they've worked but not necessarily depleted.

Interestingly if I put my hiking shoes on a couple days after the hike, walking without the poles felt odd.

[Franco Darioli]

Searching for a photo on something else to do with poles I came across this Komperdell drawing :

take a look at the first drawing on the left and tell me just how long those poles need to be to have them behind you pushing up.

[Bob Moulder]

Franco,

That appears to be perhaps 35° or so slope, so planting the (VERY long!) poles behind the hiker would create such an acute angle between the pole tips and the surface that it would lose grip on most surfaces. And that angle would become even more acute as the hiker pushed forward, which also means greatly diminished biomechanical advantage for the triceps and lat muscles. Also, most people aren't going to be taking such big steps on such a steep incline; smaller steps are much more efficient.

I'd hazard a guess that the post you referred to in your original post in this thread was somebody who "discovered" a unique set of circumstances where this long-pole/back-placement arrangement worked for him/her and perhaps thought it had a wider application.

I am certain that for me this technique would not work. Most of the responses here indicate that people figure out through trial and error what works for them and go with that. A couple of years ago I would have thought it nuts to go strapless, but once I tried it it worked for me, although I still use straps in the winter for snowshoeing.

[Franco Darioli]

Bob,
You are correct about "what works for you" and with poles the classic strap/strapless debate keeps popping up (I always use straps…)
In this case however what I was thinking about that original comment wasn't if it is the right or wrong way (according to personal preference) but if indeed it is possible at all.
What you described, lack of grip because of the angle, is the picture that came to mind and that is why I asked for a photo to demonstrate it could be done.
Of course on a mild incline it can…

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