Esbit burner testing

[Dan Yeruski]

Eric, it worked the same. I cut the legs off and added(glued) the felt to it so there was no difference. Esbit burns completely. That's using the 14 gram tablet.

I did a test burn using a round metal disc with raised 1/8" raised edge to retain melted esbit. One four gram esbit just fits inside the disc tray. I put another 4 gram tablet on top and proceeded to try and boil 2 cups and could not due to too much oxygen getting to the tablets. It was a quick test, did not even begin to hear a sound coming from the heating water. I'll get a photo of the disc side by side with the shallow stainless rectangular tray. The 2 four gram tablets need to be side by side and have some side protection to prevent oxygen getting to them.

I think I'll enlarge the width of the BGET so that 2 four gram tablets will fit side by side and then do some tests.

[Dan Yeruski]

Here is a photo of the round tray and others, described in the above comment.

[Eric Blumensaadt]

Dan,

I use a tray like the rectangular one at 2 o'clock in your photo. I use it INSIDE my Gram Cracker for easier storage so I can still remove the side plates from the Gram Cracker.

[Dan Yeruski]

Eric, with your set-up as described, can you boil 3 cups in your Cone with one 14 gram cube?

[Eric Blumensaadt]

I can boil 2 cups with my regular size ESBIT tablets. Never need to do more but when I finish my tests (currently 2 cups) I'll try a full pot of 3 cups.

I think I may need 2 tablets.

[Dan Yeruski]

A Caldera Cone for KEG with 32oz beer can will boil 4 cups with 1-1/2 fourteen gram tablets. It a nice kit for 2 people. Use the large silicone band to lower a non ribbed can down to the 1-1/2" above the esbit. I know it works with a BGET tray.

[Paul Kilroy]

No offense here but can anyone reproduce the claim of a full boil on 1/2 an esbit? There are no videos and no one else can seem to match this even with pretty efficient rigs.

[Bob Moulder]

You would have to specify at least 2 parameters — starting temperature of the water and altitude. Plus, to a lesser extent, wind and ambient temperature.

If one were starting with 60°F (or warmer) water at 10,000ft I would say it's feasible because boiling temperature at that altitude is 193.6°F. That's a huge difference.

I have several times boiled 3 cups of 50°F water at 110ft ASL with one 14g tab… with ease, actually.

[Eric Blumensaadt]

I'm still testing and recording data with my Sidewinder and 3 cup Open country pot with TWO cups of water. I am using that amount because it's usually the most I boil for both food and hot drinks. A 3 cup test may happen later if enough people are interested after my first tests.

I bagan last week but I've had to start testing over B/C I omitted recording some base data. But I have plenty of ESBIT and Firelite left to continue the tests. A test of both kinds of tablets has always interested me. So far very little difference, with Firelite being a tiny bit faster – sometimes.

Hopefully by Saturday I'll have some data to report, photos to explain the equipment used, and procedures used to obtain the data. Barring any Honey-Do projects, of course.

I hope 3 tests per setup will be considered sufficient to get a rough average of each type of test.

[Dan Yeruski]

{I hope 3 tests per setup will be considered sufficient to get a rough average of each type of test.}

Three tests per set-up works for me :) Looks forward to your test results.

[Gary Dunckel]

I'd like to suggest the following parameters to be included in peoples' test reporting, because I believe that each one is an important variable:

Starting water temperature
Altitude
Wind (calm, mild breeze, moderate breeze, strong wind or gusts)
Ambient temperature
Diameter of pot's bottom (aluminum vs. titanium would also be interesting to know)
2 cup boil (sorry Bob, but this is a fairly common standard)

Other factors that may affect the boil:
Simple wind screen?
Caldera Cone?

Also, a photo of the setup would be helpful, so that others can see the ventilation of a wind screen, for example.

I think 3 tests would yield valid results. Any more would likely be a waste of fuel (and time?).

[Bob Moulder]

I put together a test data sheet. I got tired of scribbling in a steno notebook.

Kinda crude, but PM with email address if anyone wants me to send a pdf.

[Gary Dunckel]

That's perfect, Bob. I have scores of sticky notes stacked together in a highly disorganized fashion, so I know what you mean. Now you're making me go out and buy one of those kitchen digital thermometer thingies? Does our geekhood never actually level off?

[Bob Moulder]

Believe it or not, I was looking at some data loggers the other day. There are some that aren't terribly expensive that can wifi data straight to your desktop or tablet, etc.

[Bob Moulder]

With the 1/2 Esbit tab question hanging above, I had to make a 1/2 tab BGET to test with my new pot support. Dimensioned such that the tab top was 1.25" below the pot.

Quick-n-dirty, 2 cups of 69°F water raised to 197°F with 1/2 tab. Open Country 3-cup pot. Ambient 84°F, no wind, humid as hell.

Once again, did a 3 cup boil with 1 tab with fuel to spare. Thermometer shows 210°F, but it was a rolling boil for more than 2 minutes.

Pics of pot support, 1/2 tab Bget

Assembled test setup

Easy boil of 3 cups with 1 full tab

[Dan Yeruski]

Since were testing "esbit burners" I think we should eliminate the windscreen and test under "calm" conditions only.

Standardize beginning water temperature at 70 degrees.

Testing an esbit burner under a Caldera Cone is good but it's "pot" oriented and will have almost endless results ;) It will be of interest to specific users only. Testing with a cone should also be under calm conditions.

So far we have the "Esbit" "TriWing" burner, Trail Designs Gram Cracker, Brian Green Esbit Tray(BGET) and the small "juice can bottom".

[Eric Blumensaadt]

Dan,
Regarding testing the "burners" (tablet holders) only, W/O windscreen I'll agree that it's not a bad idea to test naked burners to get definitive results on that part of the system. In a conversation with a T.D. designer he mentioned that the Gram Cracker's advantage was controlling the burn by containing the sides of the tablet. Not sure I understand that reasoning but, again, testing will determine that design wisdom.

On the trail most people wisely use some form of windscreen. That configuration is what helps people decide on which system to use.

I'm still testing (between Honey-Do projects) with my T.D. Sidewinder. When I finish I would like to see other tests with ANY windscreen/pot support. We are after the SYSTEM that works best, including the best tablet holder.

ESBIT "system" -> tablet holder, pot support, windscreen

[Dale Wambaugh]

+1 on testing as a system. Pot size and windscreen design make a big difference. Matching pot to flame pattern, etc. IMHO, having a reasonable pot size for the heat source is very important. Trying to use something like 2 liter pots with Esbit or small alcohol stoves is SLOW. Using either without a good windscreen is futile.

The cone windscreens really maximize the heat from the small fuel sources. I didn't like trying to get a boiling pot out of a cone and managing it in my pack without damage was a pain, but if I was going to use alcohol as my main stove, I would have a cone.

As to Esbit stove design, the fuel liquefies as it burns and the way the holder manages the liquid and airflow around the fuel tablet is important. I like Esbit for SUL overnight minimal cooking or day hike hot drinks with a 450ml mug. For anything more, out comes the canister stove.

[Jon Fong / Flat Cat Gear]

If your not doing system level testing, then you are wasting a bunch of time and energy. My 2 cents.

[Dan Yeruski]

Very well, let the thread be systems. We've pretty much covered the burner portion.

Let's post the "systems" :-)

Yon, you go first ;)

[Bob Moulder]

For me it has reached the point where I am quite satisfied with my particular system.

I've done enough testing and had enough field experience to have a feel for what is good, very good and excellent regarding these systems' baseline performance. It is going to take some out-of-the-box thinking to extract significantly better fuel efficiency while keeping the system very light in weight.

HERE is a link showing the pot support and the Esbit system I plan to use for some time to come, featuring the Open country 3-cup pot, myog pot support, legless BGET and windscreen. I have this fixation on having everything fit into the pot when possible, including fuel.

edit to add link

[Bob Moulder]

I like Esbit for SUL overnight minimal cooking or day hike hot drinks with a 450ml mug. For anything more, out comes the canister stove.

The more I use Esbit the more I like it for multi-night trips because it makes the most sense for UL. Isobutane is tops with regard to energy density (rolling boil of 4 cups with 9.5g of fuel!), but with a canister stove there's always the weight of the empty canister (100g) and extra fuel in the canister that in many cases is not needed for a particular (short) trip. With Esbit, count out the tabs and that's it.

For winter, however, it's now canister every time. Those serious BTUs are necessary for melting snow, which would take forever — and get pretty expensive — with Esbit.

At first I put off even trying Esbit because of the complaints I read about the smell and soot, but I find these things do not bother me at all.

[Dan Yeruski]

Caldera Cone System

Titanium Caldera Cone

2 cup Foster pot with headroom for boil. Pot has permanent attached Carbon Felt pot grabber. Pot lid and plastic cover to secure contents of items stored in pot.

Modified Gram Cracker with attached BGET tray to prevent loss of liquid esbit. Legs of BGET fold under the body of the Gram Cracker which will then sit flat on ground.

Plastic storage container with lid for esbit tray.

All items fit inside pot with a little room to spare for? and covered with plastic lid.

Almost forgot…total weight of items equals 61 grams

[Adam Kilpatrick]

I see this out now at Gossamer Gear: http://gossamergear.com/gvp-stove-system.html?utm_source=Newsletter+Subscribers+-+Combined&utm_campaign=61749fc7be-GG_10_09_1510_7_2015&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_bda6bed9e7-61749fc7be-233408833&mc_cid=61749fc7be&mc_eid=3487432a3f Looks like the system you ended up with Dan, but with with a non-modified gram cracker (ie not tray version), and a bonus bit of reflective Ti floor. Is it with the cone at the right height? Are these your cones? I'll probably drop coin on it soon. :-)

[Dan Yeruski]

Hello Adam, Gossamer teamed up with trail Designs on the cones and esbit burners. The good looking pot is of Gossamers design and approved by Trail Designs to be supported by their Titanium cones. I have a vested interest in the pots :-) Using the Foster pot was Grant's(Gossamer Gear)idea. He has used one since long ago when they were first introduced. I beefed up the upper ridgelines to strengthen the wide mouth of the pot. I don't think there is a lighter kit on the market. It can get lighter if a DIY "BGET" Brian Green Esbit Tray is used. Test results of the tray are in this thread somewhere. Trail Designs esbit tray is here also. A lot of good info has come about since this thread was started. The photos I posted is the same pot and Titanium Cone as seen in Gossamer Gear's webpage: http://gossamergear.com/gvp-stove-system.html

[Author]

Posts