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Esbit burner testing


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Viewing 25 posts - 726 through 750 (of 907 total)
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  • #3560994
    rmeurant
    BPL Member

    @rmeurant

    Locale: Laniakea

    I think deconstruction of existing “understanding” is a valuable component of enquiry. I had naively expected that hotter air supply would improve combustion, but here (from Eric) is the antithesis, albeit QED. So some of the organizing principles for design and use can be counter-intuitive. I do believe the design process is nonlinear, and in significant measure, non-rational. Creativity doesn’t want to be constrained by overly critical rationality (de Bono, etc.)

    Thanks Jon, also. Liquid forms only sometimes; that may be a function of the particular tabs used, or maybe related to the conditions – I sometimes brew up in exposed blustery conditions, from choice or necessity, so get rather imperfect combustion, but I have not yet noticed a correlation. Great videos Dan! That damn 4dog is similar to mine (smallest size), seldom worked well.

    #3560998
    Roger Caffin
    BPL Member

    @rcaffin

    Locale: Wollemi & Kosciusko NPs, Europe

    I tend to agree with Jon: most of any extra heat comes from the BS.

    I will also make the bald flat statement that wood does not burn. Yes, you read that right!

    I will quote the Encyc Brittanica here:
    Pyrolysis, the chemical decomposition of organic (carbon-based) materials through the application of heat. Pyrolysis, which is also the first step in gasification and combustion, occurs in the absence or near absence of oxygen, and it is thus distinct from combustion (burning), which can take place only if sufficient oxygen is present. The rate of pyrolysis increases with temperature. In industrial applications the temperatures used are often 430 °C (about 800 °F) or higher, whereas in smaller-scale operations the temperature may be much lower. Two well-known products created by pyrolysis are a form of charcoal called biochar, created by heating wood, and coke (which is used as an industrial fuel and a heat shield), created by heating coal. Pyrolysis also produces condensable liquids (or tar) and noncondensable gases.

    Throw a cut log on a wood fire and watch. First, it does not go up in an explosion of flame. (If it does, you are not handling wood!)
    It heats up until pyrolysis happens inside the log. Volatiles come out the end of the log as the grain is more open there, and those volatiles further decompose and burn. Eventually, when all possible volatile gases have been boiled off, you are left with charcoal, glowing red.

    So – wood does not burn; the pyrolysis products and the remaining charcoal are what burns.

    In an open fire this is all obvious. In a tin can … exactly the same pyrolysis happens. There are flames at the top as the volatiles mix with air and burn. Not enough air – and combustion is quenched and you get soot and smoke.

    Does the exact air flow pattern matter, or the temperature of the incoming air? Most unlikely. Mix fuel and air and apply a match. Have enough air and the fuel will burn pretty much to completion. Ah – chill the flame too much and the combustion will fail. This does not mean however that heating the incoming air from ambient to 100 C is going to do very much. After all, with a combustion (flame) temperature of 1200 – 1400 C, who cares about the bottom end?

    Can you recirculate the combustion products (basically, CO2 and H2O) and burn them again? Don’t be daft! Is there all that much unburnt fuel available for secondary recirculation and combustion? Not if you have enough air flow at the start.

    So what is with all the double walls, wicks and secondary air holes? Well, most of it (in my own personal opinion) is good marketing spin. After all, if a soup can with some holes punched in it is just as good, why pay the extra?

    My apologies to all those whose products I have insulted. Eric asked, and I answered.

    I remember a story Will Rietveld once told. He had the alcohol, but had forgotten his alky stove. His wife found an empty Coke can at the camp site (shame on someone else!). A few minutes later with his SAK and he had a fully functional alky stove and was cooking dinner. Moral: you don’t need fancy.

    Footnote: the TD cone is another matter. It is also a very good windshield, which can be essential. Other arrangements may be similar.

    Cheers

    #3561013
    rmeurant
    BPL Member

    @rmeurant

    Locale: Laniakea
    #3561053
    Eric Blumensaadt
    BPL Member

    @danepacker

    Locale: Mojave Desert

    Thank you Roger for taking the time to give the details. Asked and answered, as I’d hoped.

    #3561065
    DAN-Y
    BPL Member

    @zelph2

    Thank you Roger.

    #3561073
    Roger Caffin
    BPL Member

    @rcaffin

    Locale: Wollemi & Kosciusko NPs, Europe

    As an after-thought: for the next 5 (summer) months or so, here in NSW/Oz, open flames from wood fires are banned in National Parks. The risk of catastrophic wildfires has become too high.

    Cheers

    #3561121
    Eric Blumensaadt
    BPL Member

    @danepacker

    Locale: Mojave Desert

    Increased danger of wildfires?? I don’t understand Rog. Trump says global warming is a hoax.

    Who are we to believe, Trump or the world’s climatologists? ;o)

    P.S. Seriously, I taught high school Environmental Studies for over 20 years. What the world is now experiencing in severe weather and rising average temperatures was, in the 1990s, predicted to not happen until the 2050’s. THAT is what alarms me the most.

    Definitely believe the new UN report that gives the world 12 years to lower CO2 output significantly.

    I believe BPL needs an Environmental forum. There we could exchange information, plan activities and learn about various environmental organizations and legislative environmental high jinx &/or good laws being proposed.

    Aa backpackers we need to be in the forefront of environmental action. Good Lord, if not us then who?

     

     

    #3561128
    Roger Caffin
    BPL Member

    @rcaffin

    Locale: Wollemi & Kosciusko NPs, Europe

    Don’t ask me. We have just had a severe 8 month long drought here, and our farm dam was down >1.5 m.

    Cheers

    #3562593
    DAN-Y
    BPL Member

    @zelph2

    Robert, do you still use your esbitmiser?

    It’s an easy do-it-yourself project….try it.

    Esbitmiser, see how it simmers so nice because of air intake holes, which are important for efficient burn:

    YouTube video

    #3562595
    rmeurant
    BPL Member

    @rmeurant

    Locale: Laniakea

    Very nice Dan. Yes, I use the esbitmiser each time I use Esbit now. It has become an essential part of my kit. A beautiful design… Thanks for the tips in the video; I have been using it without the lid, but will now try the simmering technique you demonstrate.

    #3562735
    rmeurant
    BPL Member

    @rmeurant

    Locale: Laniakea

    Dan, I just watched “Esbit Stove with an attitude”:

    YouTube video

    Good grief, how on earth?

    #3562765
    Jon Fong / Flat Cat Gear
    BPL Member

    @jonfong

    Locale: FLAT CAT GEAR

    Robert,

    I built this almost 7 years ago: an adjustable ESBIT stove.  It turns out that as long as you have a boil and a simmer mode, most customers were more than happy: adjustability didn’t seem to add too much value.  With 2 modes, there is less to think about and it just works.  My 2 cents.

    #3562810
    rmeurant
    BPL Member

    @rmeurant

    Locale: Laniakea

    Very nice, Jon!

    #3562812
    DAN-Y
    BPL Member

    @zelph2

    Fourdogstoveco.

    “If you ever wanted to learn the best ways to burn Esbit and Heximine this video explains how and why. Learn all the different heximine camp and backpacking stoves . How they compare as well as the most effective ways to burn esbit and heximine. Visit https://fourdog.com for all your camp and trail stoves.”

     

    YouTube video

    #3562813
    DAN-Y
    BPL Member

    @zelph2

    Interesting info:

    YouTube video

    #3562815
    DAN-Y
    BPL Member

    @zelph2

    Interesting stainless steel pot support for esbit…folds flat:

    YouTube video

    #3562818
    DAN-Y
    BPL Member

    @zelph2

    Advance the video to the 7:22 point and watch the Cohglan tablet “pop” and spit particles…..not a very nice thing to be doing :-)

    YouTube video

    #3562819
    Roger Caffin
    BPL Member

    @rcaffin

    Locale: Wollemi & Kosciusko NPs, Europe

    Hi Dan

    Any idea why the Coghlans tabs should do that?

    Cheers

    #3562820
    DAN-Y
    BPL Member

    @zelph2

    More interesting esbit stuff to include titanium burner and lightweight beer can pots:

    YouTube video

    #3562821
    DAN-Y
    BPL Member

    @zelph2

    Roger, I suspect the day those tablets were made, it was a very humid day and the chemicals absorbed moisture from the air and then during the process of compressing, encapsulated the tiny droplets of water. When the tab is lit and begins heating, the water turns to steam and pops is my guess.

    A month ago I was at a campground on a humid day and did some testing of esbit. I was breaking the cubes in half. The  esbit crumbs that fell on the wood table began to show rings of moisture forming around them. I left the used, burnt esbit remains on the table over night and they totally disolved. I had the table covered with a screen tent.

    #3562825
    Roger Caffin
    BPL Member

    @rcaffin

    Locale: Wollemi & Kosciusko NPs, Europe
      Hi Dan

      My thoughts too. IF those Coghlins tabs were in sealed containers, that’s rather poor QC.

      Cheers

    #3562829
    DAN-Y
    BPL Member

    @zelph2

    One thing I don’t like about Esbit/Cohglans is the residue given off when it’s snuffed out.

    Before photo:

    PB056680.JPG

     

    Lid was used to snuff out flames. Notice the residue left on lid and sidewalls of container. Crystals, I dislike them with a passion ;-) I shudder to think folks out there store those snuffed out fuel cubes in close proximity to their food. Handling the burner container has got to be a challenge not to get the crystal residue on your hands.

    After snuffing with lid.

    PB056690.JPG

    #3562831
    rmeurant
    BPL Member

    @rmeurant

    Locale: Laniakea

    Dan, can’t view the jpgs of your last post – is that just my system misbehaving?

    Yeah, can’t view on iPad or iMac…

    #3562832
    Eric Blumensaadt
    BPL Member

    @danepacker

    Locale: Mojave Desert

    I store all my ESBIT tabs, used and new, in a roll top coffee bag, the kind with an aluminum/mylar lining.

    The residual coffee smell negates some of the fishy ESBIT smell and the lining will not let odors out. Finally the roll top helps keep odors in.

    #3562839
    DAN-Y
    BPL Member

    @zelph2

    Robert, how about these:

    Before:

     

    After:

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