Some new Tent ideas I have up on Kickstarter

"WET on the left, DRY on the right, the same. No wait, I said that backward. It's the DRY one on the left and the WET one on the right. (Pretty sure I got that right. It's just hard to tell)"

ha, ha, ha, a comedian : )

looks like some nice tents

Hi Mike,

What changed from your last Kickstarter on this tent design and these? Any why less than half a monetary goal with this one than with the last one? Is the production a lot cheaper?

Hi Doug, thanks for checking it out and thanks for asking. The link goes to the 2-person model which costs less. The factory minimum is 200 for the 2-person and 300 for a combined production of MoonLight 3 and 4s. Hence the goal difference.
The new 3 & 4s ARE about a hundred dollars less than the RugRats were mostly because I found a new fabric source but I also tweaked the windows and vestibule a touch. It turned out that round windows are particularly expensive.

Thanks Jerry. Ya gotta have some fun with it, right?

definitely

I have an older MSR two person tent from back in my car camping an non UL days. I found that to be a "wonderful" experience so your wonderful description is meaningless at least to me. While these may be wonderful tents, they come at a not so wonderful price. All of the techno jargon in the world isn't going to make it a wonderful value at least for me, even if I transport myself back to my pre UL days. I wish you wonderful luck in your wonderful startup.

When it comes to marketing, less is more.

Aw hiking Malto, don't be hating me. MSR makes the hubba-hubba and it's $400 this year. It defines 20D-class tents. I merely claim to be making that weight-class too. And a bunch of other stuff…

Mike,

I'm biased toward positive comments when someone comes up with an idea or makes something. Why rain on their parade if they are happy with it and it works for them.

But in this case you are asking for feedback and you are about to invest a lot of your or someone else's money so I figure I should say something, even if it is negative.

I only looked at the 2 person so my comments may not apply to the larger tent. The only word I can come up with is "unremarkable". I can't see any compelling reason to buy the tent. I might buy it if it was on REI Outlet or Big 5 but it would have to be in well under $100 for it to even catch my eye and I would only use it for car camping.

Daryl and daryl, Thank you for checking out the project. Your "don't see it" response is also very valuable to me. I make a lot of tents for a lot of people. So many priorities and values… We really are not all the same and I appreciate and value that.

Thank you!
Miike

Hi Mike,

I still think you need to make a big checkerboard out of the floor…. :-)

Best of luck.

If I'm going to buy a tent big enough for for three or four persons, I would not be looking at backpacking tents. Who want to haul that around and try to find a site to pitch it? So I would only be buying something for car camping. If I am going that route I want to be able to stand up in it.

I'll share a tent with one other. But prefer to have it all to myself.

So I'm not your target demographic either.

We use a 10×10 screen room for car camping. Can put it over a picnic table. Was less than $200 ten years ago.

Reading about 2 lbs per person – not unreasonable (think you should lead with that), esp for a tent 2 can be comfortable in … plus BPL is redefining UL anyways (if increasing the load bearing ability on framed packs, may as well use said capacity). Nice color scheme with just the right amt of green and use of mesh on the tent itself. Probably good for rock festivals too if ones going that route. Add think it would be nicer than those 1996 Tadpole's or Flashlight 2's from the back in the day cafe. More features at probably at about the same weight.

Hi Doug I., I like it! Not sure I can squeeze it in on this run. So many things going on…

Hi Ken T., Your point about size is well taken. I would say it's the opinion of most car-campers (by far) and there are a vast number of products that fill that need.

Besides backpackers who simply need a bigger tent for their families, I consciously decided to cater to another kind of camper who is currently underserved: the MoonLights are part of a fast and light camping style that's perfect for rafters, boaters, bikers (with sag wagon) and road-trip car-camping. These styles of camping place value on fast setup and take-down, modest stowage requirements, versatile temperature regulation, and often as not, high wind strength. This last one really saves the day when a freak windstorm hits or you're forced to camp in an exposed place. It's a big difference: walk-in tents are REALLY hard to make strong enough to take that kind of abuse – and boy are they heavy – and they pack large – and they're not cheap.

So it was a conscious decision to make the bigger MoonLight tents roomy but not walk-in huge and really lightweight, but not ultra-lightweight. It's a kind of tent that's very seldom seen.

hi hk newman, THANKS!

Thanks for checking the project out, much appreciated!
Mike

Bear in mind, I am probably not your target customer. Here are my thoughts –

Price – I bought a new 2 man and a 3 man tent last year for family camping and backpacking. The total I paid for both tents was $360, so $350+ for one is a little rich for my blood.

Size – 88" x 52" is not going to be big enough for me. I typically stick with 90" in length at a bare minimum. At 6'2" with a 2" mattress, and size 14 feet, if I go any lower than 90" (usually) some part of me ends up touching walls, which is a pet peeve. Now I may not touch walls on your tent, but if history is a guide, I wouldn't take the chance on 88".

I wish you the best of luck on the Kickstarter campaign! By the way, I have the Vaporlight 2XL, which it appears you designed. I love that tent!

Old problem. Inner gets wet when pitching in the rain.

The round windows, in my opinion, seem gimmicky. I don't see that they add really anything to the overall design.

Still want to see wind tests in soil, with stakes, instead of bolted to the floor.

Hi Marc,
You have a vapor light? Sweet! I liked that tent too.

I debated about the length and eventually decided that the walls were steep enough that a tall person would be well taken care of – but I hear you. If this succeeds I'll probably make that bigger one and use some even stronger poles with hubs just like the bigger tents. That would make it part of a more consistent family of tents. But, as you also pointed out, the price isn't in the same range as what you're used to. Those 20D fabrics really do make a huge difference in weight as well as cost.

Thanks for checking out the project!
Best,
Mike

Hi Ken,

These are tents that you can pitch the rainfly first if you like – no extra hardware needed. Old problem solved!

The round windows next to the door are certainly just for looks. If it's gimmicky to some, all I can say is sorry (but I do get a lot of compliments about them).

The wind tunnel is much more brutal than what you get outdoors. I should also mention that without a wind meter, it's a rare individual who doesn't guess windspeed wrong by almost a factor of two. If you're out in a measured 30mph wind, most think its doing at least 50mph. BTW standard weather stations report the windspeed at 33ft up and it's significantly stronger winds up there – 20-50% stronger typically.

The anchors are up to you, of course. About the only thing I can do is help to make it easy to do a good job and give you good stakes. All very much a part of what I've done with the tents.

Thanks again for checking out the project,
Mike

"I should also mention that without a wind meter, it's a rare individual who doesn't guess windspeed wrong by almost a factor of two."

yeah

I have a wind meter and when it measures 30 MPH, for example, it is very windy. Surprising it measures that low.

If you're not mountaineering, 30 MPH is probably as windy as someone will ever get.

Hi Mike,

I really like the designs and don't think the prices are too far out of whack for backpacking tents when all factors are considered. Car camping sure, but these are a pretty different animal. Highly doubt my Wentzl tent has been in a wind tunnel. Will people buy them? Who knows! Either way, thanks for sharing.

Ryan

Thanks Ryan! Much appreciated!
-Mike

These are tents that you can pitch the rainfly first if you like – no extra hardware needed. Old problem solved!

But not inner and outer at the same time. Sorry, problem.

Compliments are one thing, Lets see if people open up their wallets as much as their mouths.

Best of luck. I've owned quite a number of things you designed/help design over the years. Had that Satori pack been just a bit longer in the torso…

Thanks Ken,

The fly-and-all pitch is pretty popular in Europe. What that gives up is the option to take the rainfly off and sleep under the stars in good weather. So far the US has voted for that feature over the all-together pitch but I'm sure it could change.

At some point there's always a decision about gear and technique that has to be made. What's surprising is just how back and forth that technique/gear relationship is and how it zigs and zags through every decision.

Best,
Mike

Hi Mike

I really like your tent design! Can you tell more about the expected durability of the fly fabric. I see u use a really light 20d Sil/pu coated polyester. How does it compare to 20d 1.1oz silnylon in terms of abrasion resistance, strength and uv resistance?

Best regards,
Niek