what would a 10 # base weight look for a winter trip?

Hey Mike,

I've been impressed with how wearable the EE Revelation quilts are, especially with a quilt strap worn as a belt. The shock cord at either end can be synched around the waist, and the excess length hangs to about the knee, forming a doubled up fold that protects the hands. The other shock cord can synch around the neck, or it can be worn as a hood. The snaps do a fairly good job of buttoning up the front, but leave room for the arms to move freely for camp chores. Works very well if worn with a hood as well. The 40F quilts have a little over 7 oz of down but weight just 13oz or so. I've found it warmer than a comparable down jacket with the same amount of down, because of the more even distribution and wind protection. It could do double duty in your sleep system as well, and perhaps mitigate the need for a bivy.

Cheers, Ed

Ed- interesting idea :) that would definitely shave some ounces- lighter under quilt (probably a 30 degree would be sufficient w/ a 40 over the top) and could go forego a parka, would probably still want a light down jacket though

Mike

I haven't tried this at 0F, but yeah I can imagine a lighter down jacket would pair well with this setup. I was warm to about 15 wearing just the 40F quilt a cap 4 hoody and 200 wt tights, while walking for about an hour after setting up camp, and sitting for a few minutes here and there, with light wind. But 0F with real wind is another story. I also folded my sleeping pad up into the gap where the quilt came around in front and blew it up enough to hold its shape and stay put under the pad strap worn as a belt while walking. I could have done without it but it made the setup super cozy. Not probably the most graceful setup for camp chores, but it worked a treat for just ambling around after setting up camp and staying warm for just enjoying the night.

would definitely be a skill building exercise, best tried at warmer temps for practice :)

well was out this past weekend, temps were reasonable 20’s high, low teens low, but experienced some of the worst winds ever AND they lasted all night and into the morning- not a lot of sleep :)

Anyways thought of this thread and thought it was worth a bump. My base weight is still right at the 15-ish mark.

15-ish is about on the mark for me too Mike.  10….that’s pushing it.  If possible it would require a very expensive re-tooling of my gear which simply wouldn’t be worth it to me.

WM Antelope (5 degree)/Ridgerest Solar = 3.5 lbs.

HMG Southwest 3500 or Granite Gear Vapor Trail = 2-3 lbs.

Mid/stakes/groundsheet = 2 lbs.

Big three come in at ~8 pounds.  Still leaving me ~7-8 lbs for clothes/insulation, snowshoes, cooking gear, etc.  which is a comfortable margin.

I started perusing around at lightweight, but still near bomber shelters and nothing I found that was lighter than my BD Firstlight

after the windstorm I survived Friday night, the only thing I could think of that might work is burrowing down (snow trench like) with a waterproof bivy- wouldn’t be quite as cozy as a tent :)

What would a 10 lb. base weight look like for winter trips?

D@MN COLD!

Sounds like you got worked over Mike.

Snow trenches….I’ve done it with calm skies but sure as heck wouldn’t care much for it if the winds picked up and snow was blowing.

Eric- probably true!

Craig- it was a rough one- close to 14 hours in the tent and maybe got two hours of sleep, sounded like a cross between a train and a jet headed for my shelter; kept thinking didn’t want to go out of this world by a falling lodgepole- of course there are probably worse ways to go :)

Mike –

What space/volume did you have left with a wind like that?

What tie-outs did you have? Would more have helped?

Greg- volume wasn’t too bad (I was positioned pretty close to middle), every once in awhile I’d get a slap of tent material

I had four corner stakes and then four upper corner tieouts- was using MSR Blizzard stakes, had them stomped into the snow pretty good all held through the night

its possible to side tieouts might have helped, but overall I’m very happy with the way the tent handled the wind, just hope I don’t have to go through that again :)

Mike

Thanks Mike.

The Firstlight has always intrigued me.  Good to know it can handle wind.

The only storm proof tent weighing less than the BD is probably the old Marmot Taku and that hasn’t been made for a very long time and when it was I couldn’t afford it or the major modification it needed

Or the Mountain Hardware Direkt 2, but it looks like it’s now discontinued as well.

I looked at the Direkt when I was looking at the Firstlight- the Direkt got pretty poor points for condensation- the Firstlight is actually not too bad (cold/dry conditions) in that regard

MSR makes the Pro 2- about the same weight, but appears to be even more bomber yet

pretty limited niche to be sure :)

RE: Snow trenches
A proper snow trench shelter needs a roof and must be long and wide enough so you are not touching the sides. They also take practice and a snow shovel. Depending on snow conditions, they take 1 to 2 hours to build properly. If a storm is already blowing, you are probably better off setting up a storm worthy tent.

I agree- a BCA shovel is always part of my winter base weight, regardless of bivy or tent

I’ve used a sil 5×7’ tarp for trenches, roughly 7 oz (on top of a 14 oz bivy); I’ve also used the tarp draped over a-frame debris like shelter and then heaped with snow- this a longer project yet (probably in the neighborhood of 4 hours), but is relatively cozy :)

I’ve done a couple short solo winter trips without a shovel, with a ‘mid, xtherm/ccf, and frameless higher volume pack, for a base weight around 12lb. I wasn’t in avy terrain, but I’m wondering about the rationale of always bringing a shovel if you have sheltered camp options, and don’t need it for avy rescue. Are you mainly thinking a storm can’t be ruled out and you want to be able to dig down if the ‘mid fails?

yup digging- for shelter, for a cooking spot, break spot, digging to get into a cabin door, etc.

it’s 16 oz has proven so useful so many times that I don’t leave home without it in the winter :)

It is going to be hard to get the weight down when certain items such as a WPB bivvy and a proper snow shovel are mandatory inclusions.

I could save a couple of kilos myself but I’m reluctant to spend the money needed to do so and also hesitant to replace the fail-safe synthetics with the much lighter down equivalent on certain items but I’m already at a point where  your 15 pound base weight looks Uber-ultra light

it’s probably not doable for me at this juncture (with a good margin of safety) and plenty happy with a 15# base weight, but always worth looking into :)

QUICKIE SNOW TRENCH (in 3+ ft. of snow)

1. Using skis or snowshoes (not boots) compress the snow in the area to be dug out and wait 45 mins. for the snow to harden (called firnification). Now the tench side walls will be strong.
2. Dig the trench only torso length with at least 2 1/2 ft. side walls and then dig a “leg tunnel” for your leg area. This means less snow needs to be moved with more natural insulation above your legs and less top cover needed.
3. Use your pack or a big snow ball to block most wind from the entrance.

4. Hopefully you will have a silnylon tarp to cover your short trench over skis, poles and sticks “rafters”.

5. And also you’ll want a space blanket today your mattress on.

Sleep tight!

NOTE: Some will say, “Why stomp the torso area and make it harder to dig out?”  OK, good point. But you still need to compress the side walls area and the “leg tunnel” area.

“I looked at the Direkt when I was looking at the Firstlight- the Direkt got pretty poor points for condensation”

Can confirm.
I borrowed the Direkt 2 from a friend once. Slept in it after scrambling up one of the steeper and longer routes in the Northern Japanese Alps. Next morning woke up to quite a lot of condensation on the inside, and the sleeping bag fabric was soaked.
Slept like a baby though (I was so beat I think you could’ve dumped me in the river and I would have slept through it).

^ thanks for confirming; everyone who used one said it was absolutely bomber- just needed better ventilation

the Firstlite isn’t great in that regard, but adequate, especially with the drier conditions that I’m generally in

Eric- I’ll give that a go sometime :)