By the Numbers: Patagonia Worn Wear Micro Puff vs. New Micro Puff

Very interesting. Thanks for taking the time to do this.

My ancient Nano-Puff is Primaloft–I assume! maybe they changed this over the years. It still looks almost new, and is likely 20 years old with LOTS of worn time. I wear it probably five times a week all winter. Great insulation for its weight. The only downside is that it retains a sweat smell fairly easily. In a way that makes it more impressive because I wash it a lot and it’s still going strong.

I wear it in winter while skiing, but I haven’t stuffed it much over its life. I don’t take it backpacking.

Thank you, very interesting. It would be very cool to do the same thing with a light weight down jacket to test the old saying that these don´t degrade to the same extent, and to evaluate different “revivial” strategies.

It’s pretty much a given for me that synthetic fill loses loft over time, so a used one is going to reflect that. How it was used is going to make a difference.

I don’t see lightly insulated jackets as interchangeable with fleece.

Fleece is a good mid layer for active use. It breathes and is hydrophobic. It is heavy and bulky for the loft provided. It needs a shell for full performance, especially in any wind. A fleece is just a synthetic sweater.

Unless you have an “active insulation” garment, lightly insulated shells are not very breathable due to the requirement that the fabric needs to contain the fibers, regardless of synthetic or down fill. The actual loft is quite thin. IMHO, much of the warmth is from two wind shell level layers with low airflow/breathability. With sewn through construction and some degradation in loft, the thermal photos are no surprise. I would like to see photos of the fleece with a breathable wind shell or a rain shell.

Lightly insulated (60g) jackets are good grab and go items for errands or commuting and warding off a light chill in camp or a rest stop, but don’t cut it for colder weather and for active use. I prefer fleece with a wind or rain shell.

Degadation of fleece over time in comparison to high loft stuff could be interestingnas well…

wow, nice measurement setup, I didn’t see this before, I’m looking forward to more measurements, thanks

I read your “How I measure” document – nice how you verified your instrument with a known sample, cork.  Different thicknesses.  Maybe Styrofoam would be a good material to use because it’s more consistent, the R value is written on the side of it (not that that’s accurate)

Like Dale said, micropuff synthetic insulation is known to lose loft over time, which would be consistent with your lower measured R value for used garment.  Fleece loses fibers every time you wash it, but then it also loses mass, so maybe that’s not so bad.  (Except for ocean life)

The grams/R is about 4 times bigger for synthetic than fleece.  Synthetic has 4 times the warmth for the same weight.

I also ditched my fleece jacket and replaced it with synthetic. Same weight, 4 times the warmth.  Has the same benefit of retaining warmth when wet.  Maybe fleece retains warmth when wet a little better, but it’s still much worse than synthetic in my unscientific experience.

A few comments:

Bryan: Interesting concept but not something I can measure.  If you look at a human body in infrared, it is all about the same surface temperature and temperature differences can often  correspond to fat deposits.  So, I think to look into this, I would suggest finding the navy study that has been referred to here.  I have not  checked into this but I am sure there are lots of material doing physiological studies on line.

Jerry:  I also use extruded polystyrene foam board in 1/2″ and 1″ thicknesses so I can test to higher R values.  Although the R value is printed on the insulation, that is for an average insulation temperature of 75F.  Typically, manufacturers  specify for R value at 3 average temperatures: 25F, 40F and 75F. This may vary. This is because the R value changes with temperature, with R value increasing at average insulation temperature drops.  XPS insulation behavior is pretty linear with temperature.  Other insulations, such as isocyanurate, are not.  I use published manufacturer’s data to extrapolate to the higher temperatures I use during insulation testing.  The same behavior is true for cork or fiberglass batts.  So, R 13 rated fiberglass batts can range from R11.4 at 145F to R14.9 at -25F.  Since these are manufactured products, the actual performance can vary a bit from published values.

Stephen, a couple ideas:

1. It has been written that below a certain weight class, say sub-8 oz, the advantage in insulation efficiency offered by down over synthetic is so minimal as to be meaningless, because the amount of insulation is relatively small once the shell fabric, zipper, etc. have been added up. Furthermore, because such light jackets are most appropriate for temps when it might rain, choosing a hydrophobic synthetic insulation for jackets in this weight class makes additional sense.

Your data here seems to blow the first argument up.

2. How does equivalent weight Polartec Alpha compare to worn synthetic fill like Pluma or Climashield Apex in clo/R-value? Alpha has always been marketed as a hyper-efficient fleece, so as an “active insulation.” But presuming that Alpha maintains its loft, or can regain it with some handling, like fleece does, is it worth considering a stand-alone, or “direct” Alpha garment as an alternative to a synthetic fill garment for camp use? If we’re carrying a wind and/or rain jacket anyway, wouldn’t we have the entire weight of a synthetic fill jacket to budget toward a naked Alpha hoody?

E.g.

Used Patty MicroPuff or EE Torrid Apex (~8oz class synthetic fill garments for camp/sleeping)

2 x Timmermade (~ 9 oz) + windshell or rainshell (already carried)

Which is warmer?

(The Timmermade Alpha Direct hoody is 4.5 ounces and made with the 2.5 oz/yard (90 gsm) Alpha variant; I know that thicker Alpha (120) is around but don’t know of anyone making a “direct” style, unshelled garment with it.)

Do we know much about how Alpha holds its loft (we know it’s fragile, but that’s not to important to camp/sleep use, and if covered with a shell)?

A few articles about heat loss from the head:

https://www.livescience.com/34411-body-heat-loss-head.html

https://wildernessmedicinenewsletter.wordpress.com/2007/02/14/heat-loss-through-the-head-and-hypothermia/

I am interested to see how Patagonia Micro Puff compares with Lofttek used in Outdoor Vitals jackets and quilts.

They might send you something if you request it: [email protected]  or
(435) 572-0787

Hi Brad:

If you are willing to obtain the jacket and get it to me, I will be happy to test it.  You will be responsible for returning or keeping the jacket after the test. If you want to pursue this, PM me to discuss the logistics.