Episode 26 | Load Hauling

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Summary

Note: This podcast was recorded in early February 2020 – before Covid-19 social distancing measures went into place. 

In this episode of the Backpacking Light Podcast, Ryan and Andrew talk about load hauling – how to go as light as possible when the nature of your trip (packrafting, desert water carries, winter travel, etc.) requires specialized and (often) heavy gear.

After catching up (Ryan is running some cool experiments) the guys talk gear: packs, footwear, and other considerations for when the pack weight starts to creep up. After that they move into a discussion of skills that can lighten up a trip, even when the equipment is heavy.

Ryan updates the listeners on cool new stuff going on at BPL, and Andrew talks about his new favorite thing – a new pair of ultralight running shoes.

The episode wraps with an interview of Kevin Timm, owner and founder of Seek Outside. In a wide-ranging discussion, Kevin and Andrew talk about:

• Seek Outside’s story and gear design aesthetic
• What Kevin values in a piece of gear
• Kevin’s advice to budding outdoorsy industry entrepreneurs
• Lessons learned
• The overlap between hunters and backpackers
• Conservation and public lands use
• And more!

Outline

• Introduction
  • Today’s theme – load hauling: going light when you have to bring along a bunch of gear.
• Catching Up
  • Ryan’s been doing experiments
    • Load testing with tent guylines
    • Comparison of moisture transfer in different layering systems
    • Looking at base layers made from alpaca wool!
  • Andrew’s upcoming thru-hike of the Benton MacKaye Trail
    • Testing the Rogue Panda Zoro 65 L
• Gear
  • What are we looking for in a “load hauler” style pack?
    • Volume
      • Lots of food
      • Mountaineering
      • Packrafting
    • Comfortable at heavy weight
      • Internal frame
      • Decently wide hip-belt
        • Weight transfer over padding in shoulder-straps
  • Ryan’s favorite load-hauling pack
    • McHale Sarc pack – 80 L
  • Footwear
    • Packweight limits your ability to be nimble and adjust to rough terrain
      • A theoretical argument for torque resistance
    • Ryan looks for leather-upper low-top shoes with a stiff foot-bed
      • Scarpa Zen Pro
  • Trekking poles can be crucial with a heavy pack
  • What’s the single biggest thing you could do to lighten your pack on a “load-hauling” trip?
    • More squats!
• Skills
  • Tom Murphy (photographer who has to use heavy gear in the backcountry)
    • If your specialized gear is heavy, lighten up everything else (duh)
    • Be comfortable with ultralight camping gear
  • How to learn to use a tarp
    • psychological barrier
      • Experience in a low-consequence environment
    • Bivy sack
• What’s New at BPL?
  • Dialing in the format for reviews
  • The Wilderness Adventures Trekking Program – what is different about this year’s trips?
    • Running all trips at same time
    • Focusing on the route – more options by holding the trek earlier in the year
      • Moving the trek to July preserves opportunities for cool routes and new experiences
  • Cool new articles at BPL
    • Measuring Waterproofness in Outdoor Performance Fabrics with a DIY Hydrostatic Pressure Test Device at Home
    • Is a Heat Exchanger Pot Worth the Weight?
    • Arc’teryx Proton LT Hoody Review
    • Enlightened Equipment VISP Rain Jacket Review
• In the Forums
  • https://backpackinglight.com/forums/topic/why-tents-fail-in-the-wind/
  • https://backpackinglight.com/forums/topic/winter-air-mattress-and-closed-cell-foam-pad/
  • https://backpackinglight.com/forums/topic/rei-flash-air-1-tent/
    • REI Co-op Flash Air 1
• New Favorite Things
  • Andrew – Xero Shoes Mesa Trails
  • Ryan – Arc’teryx Proton FL Hoody
• Interview: Kevin Timm, Owner and Founder of Seek Outside
  • A general overview of the Seek Outside story
  • Kevin’s past as a computer security research expert
  • Engineering background
  • What does the process of gear design look like for Seek Outside?
    • Consumer driven
    • Inspiration driven
    • Breaking and fixing things
      • The simpler the better – less things to fail
  • Working with DCF
    • Learning curve with the fabric
    • Kevin didn’t feel the need to work DCF into this designs because his growth was good enough anyway
  • Designing products for a diverse user base
  • Seek Outside’s general guiding principle
    • As minimalist as possible that will still perform
    • Making stuff for people that are going to stay out in the woods when the weather gets bad.
  • Moving from tents to backpacks
    • Kevin started out by experimenting with packs that he bought – making ultralight packs stronger for heavy loads
    • Felt the need to make a waterproof pack
    • Worked with a customer and client to prototype packs, ran through tons of features to see what worked best
    • Started from the ground-up in terms of design
    • A focus on contouring over stiffness (in terms of belts)
  • Overlap between hunting and recreational backpacking worlds
    • Are some outdoor companies focusing on the differences in order to appeal to core user bases?
    • Hunting apparel companies have been doing some innovation in the last ten-to-twenty years.
    • From a conservation standpoint, hunters and recreational backpackers need to get along better
  • What is Kevin the most proud of as a designer and small business owner?
    • His company’s commitment to conservation and public lands advocacy
    • His staff and team
  • What is Kevin’s biggest regret or something he wished he’d done differently
    • Marketing, explainer videos, instructions, and branding
  • What advice would Kevin give to someone with a good idea who is thinking of turning it into a business
    • Go for it – but go for it in a smart way
    • Ego is the Enemy and The Obstacle is the Way by Ryan Holiday
    • The Lean Startup: How Today’s Entrepreneurs Use Continuous Innovation to Create Radically Successful Businesses by Eric Ries
  • What is the biggest challenge for the outdoor industry right now?
    • Overuse
    • Conservation
    • Do outdoor gear companies have an ethical mandate to promote conservation efforts?
  • How Kevin handles criticism

Links

• Seek Outside contact info:
  • Website
  • Facebook
  • Instagram
  • Twitter

Feedback, Questions, Tips?

• Submit them via email or Twitter and get featured on our next podcast!

Credits

• Backpacking Light – Executive Producer
• Ryan Jordan – Director and Host
• Andrew Marshall – Producer and Host
• Kevin Timm – Guest Interview
• Look for Me in the Mountains – Music

• Written by: Chris Cunningham and Ryan Jordan
• Performed by: Chris Cunningham (acoustic guitar, lead and harmony vocals, harmonica), Chad Langford (upright bass), and Tom Murphy (mandolin).
• Produced by: Basecamp Studios in Bozeman, Montana

Sponsors

• This episode of the Backpacking Light Podcast is supported and kept advertising-free by Backpacking Light membership fees. Please consider becoming a member which helps support projects like this podcast, in addition to a whole slew of other benefits!

Contact

You can contact us at [email protected], or follow us on social media –

• Backpacking Light – Facebook | Instagram | Twitter
• Andrew Marshall – Instagram | Twitter | WWW
• Ryan Jordan – Instagram | Twitter | WWW

Related Content

• The BPL community talks about Seek Outside’s packs.