Episode 91 | Fishnet Mesh Base Layers

Ryan, how do you find the odor resistance of the synthetic Brynje?
I have used both Brynje and Castelli wool mesh layers until now, figuring that the mesh would mostly mitigate the drawbacks of wool(slow drying), like the anecdote about the cotton mesh baselayers.

But, if the odor resistance is good, it might be time to switch.

I think Schoeller may have cracked the nut when it comes to polypropylene odor resistance. Brynje polypropylene since about 2017 or 2018 is Schoeller Polycolon. I’ve worn my Brynje base layers made with this fiber for up to about 7 days at a time with minimal to no odor. When I notice “minimal” odor, I give it a rinse / quick hand wash and it dries fast (as polypropylene does).

I do think merino or alpaca will go longer than Polycolon without odor but putting Polycolon in a mesh, where there’s not a lot of surface area for odor-causing bacteria to grow anyways, probably helps.

Except for skin-feel (which is hard to notice in a mesh layer), I’m not sure I see a compelling reason to opt for Brynje mesh in the merino version.

I just picked up a Brynje for the first time a month ago and have been experimenting with different layers while backpacking and jogging. So far the mesh and a snug-fitting mid-weight polyester base layer over the top has been most comfortable in temps down to the mid 20s while active, with a wind shirt depending on conditions, but I’m still playing around with combinations. I also want to try layering alpha direct or Mountain Hardwear airmesh once it gets colder in the midwest.

Ryan, what was the Finetrack layer you mentioned on the podcast?

For those looking to layer another shirt to layer over the fishnet mesh,

Gorewear has a lightweight (mostly) polypro crew neck shirt, in bother with and black:

https://www.gorewear.com/us/en-us/m-base-layer-long-sleeve-shirt-100317

Although earlier tests seem to indicate baselayer dry time is mostly determined by fabric weight, having PP as the main fabric helps create a lightweight shirt, and the low hydrophobicity should still help a little bit.

I start in inverted order:

2) As I have a hard time to tolerate wool in direct contact with my body I am using mostly poly fabrics on the upper body. The Bryne is awsome during my winter bike commutes. Bike commuting is hard on any garnment as one adds some sweet in the morning and then let it cool down (optimal for the bacterial growth) just to add more sweet in the evening. I have one for each day with consideration to my fellow bikers. Meaning even they start to smell a bit after some usage cycles. However, I am sometimes forced to use one for several days, being hiking and not able to wash them in the weekend. With rinsing this worked for 3 days until I gave in and went washing the rest. Third day was too hard on my nose ;-) .

When I hike during winter I am also using the Bryne as it has an incredible warmth with a wool or fleece (with the risk of a serious stink there) shirt over it. I must admit that I do not get why one would use it with a normal lifa – take that directly on the skin would be my guess. During hiking in winter I can easily go 2-3 days without doing much. This as the great thing is that here in Sweden I take of the Bryne and let it “freeze”dry over night as it contains so little water that it does not freeze solid for me and without the risk of bacterial grow (pretty sure all bacterias are dead in the morning). I realy do not like to sleep with it as it is uncomfortable for me when lying on it and I full embrace the concept of sleeping cloths in the winter.

1) On the principle of “lagom” (I really do not think you should call it a philosophy) I think it is heavily interwined witht the Swedish mentality. Not being a born Swede I must admit that even after more then 2 decades I only partially get it. What I most like is the pragmatic approach of doing the necessary thing for oneself to be satisfied. That means it is a relative principle for anyone to come to the point of heapiness.

For example “äta lagom” can mean eating a lot when hungrig or little/nothing when not. But it means eating that amount that gives you what you need at that time. And if one eats so much that one is a bit “full” because but one needs the mental kick after a long and demanding day – then this was “lagom” at that time while on another day one would complain of having eaten too much.

Which brings me to the simple answer – I always try to make my hikes “lagom”. It is among the most relaxing activities I know. But it does not mean that I am not tiered, sometimes dirty or even temporarily unpleasant/cold/wet/… . But I am always satisfied while doing i and in the end! Lagom trött men mycket nöjd.

1.
Wu wei is one concept that can be applied to backpacking — especially lightweight backpacking. I like the definition of “effortless action”, not the more common “inaction”, or the legalistic uses.

2.
I started with fishnet in the 70s, and continued until it was no longer available. Even in cotton, it is remarkably effective.

I remember when “wicking” was the hot new thing. It didn’t work for me then and never has since. Fundamentally, the phase-change from direct evaporation will cool much more effectively than placing an insulator between you and the evaporation. If it works more effectively, it reduces the water you lose to sweat, reducing dehydration, improving physical performance, and providing more flexibility around how much water you need to carry.

I’ve used both the merino and the PP versions of Brynje and prefer the PP. The merino will shrink which can become a problem, since the garment is close fitting. I had to stop using the shirt on one trip after wearing holes in my skin around the armholes.

I wear the shirt year-round, finding it cools better than anything else. However, I found in the 70s that fishnet does not provide sun protection and can lead to some interesting sunburns.

On one training hike, I got caught in an unexpected downpour that completely soaked my windshirt. I could tell exactly where the fishnet ended by the skin temperature — notably colder where there was no fishnet.

I haven’t used the lower layers. It has to be really cold for me to want something on my legs. However, I do have both short and long-sleeved shirts, and may eventually gets something for the legs — I find myself getting colder as I get older.

I notice that the recommended Brynje shirt link points to the short sleeve version. The BPL review is also of the short sleeve version. I’m curious whether you prefer the long or short sleeve? And does anyone find they mostly use the long sleeve in summer or the short sleeve in winter?

https://www.pactimo.com/products/mens-polartec-alpha-core-cycling-base-layer

I just stumbled across this sleeveless base layer It’s using a combination of alpha direct around the core and stretch mesh side and lower panels. It looks interesting and also it’s on sale.

Anyone try either of these models by Craft?

https://www.craftsports.us/products/mens-cool-mesh-superlight-sleeveless or

https://www.craftsports.us/products/mens-pro-dry-nanoweight-baselayer

I don’t currently get out much to winter hike (hoping to start this year and make more attempts moving forward) but I do run in cool/cold temps everyday. Think these would be great to replace the poly T-shirt I use below my other layer(s).

There’s some interesting discussion here! I am new to BPL and thought I’d jump into this thread. I live in Utah, am a year-round runner and especially enjoy snowshoe running in the mountains. I ran a 25k snowshoe running race last January and wore (on top) just a Brynje wool Thermo LS shirt with a short sleeve woven merino t-shirt over it. This was a pretty good combo and I stayed warm in the 20 degree (F) range despite lots of sweating. The outer shirt was fairly wet at the end of the race so this winter I want to try a different outer layer that will vent better and not wet out.

I thought I heard Jeff Jacobs say on the podcast that he sometimes doubles up on Brynje mesh shirts with no other layers. I am intrigued since this would seem to be a pretty good venting system while also providing a bit more warmth (and modesty!) than just a single layer alone. Has anyone tried this while doing high intensity winter sports?

Well, I really tested my Brynje Polypropylene layers recently.

I was doing a multi day hut to hut ski touring trip in Switzerland.
I wore my Brynje Polypro for 5 days straight, with a lot of sweating, and it smelled fine. Even the fourth night, in a guesthouse (not hut) restaurant, so surrounded by people who put on clean clothes every day ;-).

I also find the Super thermo very comfortable and soft against the skin.

Besides odor resistance, I also really tested  the moisture management. I mostly wore it under a Neoair shell jacket and dermizax shell pants.
Due to rapidly changing conditions, and the fact that you are wearing a pack, I was not always able to adjust my layers optimally, and would end up sweating for a while, followed by much colder, windier Conditions moments later. I was never overly cold from wetness.

And at night too, with all other base layers, once I am done for the day, at home or in a hut, I usually get chilled, even if they don’t feel damp, and with very thin base layers. Not so with this one.

The final test was our last ski day in Switzerland:

We ended up lift served skiing on the Gemstock, which has 5000’ vertical. Due to falling a lot in the deep powder, I kept my shells fully zipped up. I also made a mistake in my estimation of the conditions, and so I started the day with the Brynje long underpants, and Polartec alpha and Brynje mesh on top, under my shell pants and jacket. It turned out, that was way warmer than needed, so I was sweating like crazy. Mid day I managed to take those extra layers off, ending with nothing on my legs, and just the Brynje on top, underneath my shell pant and jacket.

The lower half of the mountain was in the sun, and quite warm, so, while working hard skiing, I’d work up a tremendous sweat. Then, we’d reach the bottom and stand around, waiting for the tram, then ride 2 trams to the top. A total of about 45 minutes of standing still.

Emerging at the top, it was many degrees colder, and we were in the fog, so damp, and much more wind. Yet, I was merely cool, not freezing like I would have been in any other baselayer after sweat speaking it and then standing still for that long.

Repeating this throughout the day had the same result every time.

@Chad V

I have occasionally layered my short and long sleeve Brynje Super thermo shorts on top of each other.
Works well, although I have not tried it super often.