MYOG Titanium/Carbon Fiber Ice Axe

Steve,

Let me think about that: 300 feet, times 12 inches, divided by, say, 2.5 inches per ice axe, equals 1440. Would you have to quit your day job?

Thanks for the update, Steven! I think these were some very smart manufacturing changes. So you think you're going to be able to meet the tolerances you need with the stock tube, or are you doing additional machining?

Since all other discussions are being disregarded, any chance this one will be type B compliant? :)

cool! I am stoked about V2.

I am wondering how much weight shovel end will add.

I think I am going to tape mine as the bottom of the CF shaft near the spike is vulnerable to damage

You nailed it. That is the major reason for bonding the shaft inside the spike. When the shafts are stock length there is less of an issue but when I cut them myself, even with a wet saw and taping the shaft to minimize fraying, there was still small fibers that were out of place. I added a layer of the epoxy around the perimeter to keep these in place, but seeing as the spike receives the majority of the abuse, it's smarter to bond inside.

I see a good market for an axe like the one I have, made more economically like version 2. That does not mean that a B rated axe is not a good idea also. There is clearly a demand for that too. That I think is mostly down to strengthening the shaft, not just at the head but in the middle for a belay anchor and near the bottom to stop the sort of breakage I reported in self belay. In other words a bigger diameter and probably thicker walled shaft perhaps still with an insert at any particular weakness. Even adding 50 or 100% to the Carbon fibre weight would not make a heavy axe

A great project, well done.
Not sure if I have missed a new thread on this…
Are you making / selling the v2s?
Much feedback from those who have used it?

Great project, but having subscribed mainly (to be fair not exclusively) to see this premium content, I'm a bit ticked off. This is far from being a MYOG project (what I was hoping to see) – it's a report on the design development of a commercial product! Very very few will have the resources to make this for themselves.

So, interesting read, but in the wrong place as it's misleading to call it a MYOG project.

IMHO, of course.

Mark

Hi Steven.

Outsourcing ISN'T MYO! I could get just about anything made if I took that approach, but it wouldn't be self made, and certainly wouldn't be a candidate to be sold as a MYOG project.

The issue isn't so much that it's there or how it came about (I did say it's a great article), it's that, in effect, BPL are using it to entice people to subscribe. They put it in a MYOG section, give NO difficulty info in the summary that you can see before you subscribe, and offer a description that gives no hint at all that it's as specialized as it is.

So, someone's looking for some hints on how to make their own ice axe, see this summary, pay their dollars, and find that it's no where near being a MYOG project after all.

Not a problem in my case because there were other articles that were worth paying to see, but if something's sold as a MYOG project, it should be a MYOG project, within the reach of a significant proportion of readers, which this simply isn't. It should at the very least have a proper description of the project people are being asked to pay to see.

Thanks for your offer to help, but to be honest even with that, and even though I'm an engineer, it's way beyond what I'd want to take on, or have the facilities or time to do.

Mark

Both of you make good points. I'd contact BPL direct and let them know how you were mislead.

You just need to improve your skills; think of it as an aspirational project…

And no, I'm not a BPL member, but I do make some of my own gear. Most significantly, I do know my limitations, and know that making a titanium ice axe is beyond me.

If you don't know that working titanium for something like this isn't something you can do with scissors and glue, you probably shouldn't be contemplating MYOG projects with it.

It's not as if the first few posts don't give a clue as to some of the techniques required:

"yet machining it out of solid titanium rod costs 22.7% of the total cost."

"now THAT is some serious MYOG"

"You are right that it would be easier to ream a tube and cut on an angle."

"The idea of trying to weld a titanium adze to an aluminium ferrule and spike … no thanks."

If you're thinking of making an axe, surely you've looked at commercially available axes and thought to yourself: "how is that made?" and "do I know how to do that?". If there are much easier ways of doing these things, don't you think the manufacturers would be using them?

Even the most basic axe requires the ability to cut, shape, bend and bond fairly sizeable chunks of metal, and be able to assess whether it will be strong enough for purpose.

Steve; I'm pretty sure that Spruce Goose's comment was firmly tongue-in-cheek.

[ah, SG got in there before I did]

Quote:

I was also upset about this. When I saw an article entitled "MYOG Titanium/Carbon Fiber Ice Axe", I expected something like this:

1) find some carbon fiber and use a hand saw and sandpaper to shape it into a shaft
2) find some titanium and pound it with a hammer until you have a head, and a spike
3) Gorilla Glue the titanium onto the shaft

Needless to say, I was very disappointed with this article. Shame on you all.

Reply:

Why on earth would you expect that (or from someone else; "scissors and glue")? Why wouldn't you expect to find an article describing how to do this using the kinds of tools someone with general engineering skills might have at home, or at the very least would be able to hire at a sensible cost? I mean, given that this is sold (not given; sold) by BPL as a MYOG project, wouldn't that be reasonable?

From the description (and the comments – I guess you can find those if you know the site, but they're not linked from the MYOG page or the article summary if you're not a member), it's obviously not going to be something you can knock up in a couple of hours, but it could easily be something that could be done using bench drill, power saw, bench grinder etc etc etc. If it's not, it's not MYOG.

And people, please read my posts before commenting on them. I said this is a great article, and it is. It's fascinating, inventive, clever, comprehensive, well written, etc etc etc. I have no quarrel with Steve, and it SHOULD be on BPL. The issue is that it's premium content that people are asked to pay for, and so should be properly classified and/or described, that's all. Either that, or offered free.

Steve, maybe I should contact BPL direct, but do they not read comments on their own site?

Mark