ZPacks Duplex Zip Tent

So just what is a “mid” anyway? I always thought of a mid as having only one apex, like a pyramid. The SMD Lunar Solo, Lanshan 1 and Hexamid are basically half pyramids with a vestibule and an added small triangle on the backside.

To me the X-Mid looks like an A frame with its 2 poles, only offset at a diagonal instead of perpendicular.

4500 years ago the Egyptians figured out just how solid pyramids are. The Romans used arches and domes to construct master works because of their strength. Also I see that since MLD went to silpoly Ron has suspended orders until May 1 because demand is off the charts. It’s true that pyramids don’t offer as much livable space per footprint area as a 2 pole tent, but pyramids are the most solid trekking pole tents in strong winds. Simple geometric shapes are still the best.

The TT Moment DW, Terra Nova Compact and Hilleberg Enan are tunnel (arch) designs and all are very solid in major blows. Just not much room to sit up.

Thanks, Jscott,  I live in NH’s White Mountains, and have hiked in CA only once to do most of the JMT (skipped the crowds in Yosemite), and never in Oregon & Washington because it is much easier to get off Routes 80 or 90 in the Rockies, which are awesome.  So am not familiar with the challenges of the PNW, except in guide books. That One % in the PNW must be hellish at times, although the lightning storms in southern CO can be frightful after a few days of frequent sitting on the pack and watching the bolts crashing nearby. I once bagged a hike to escape that; but no tent can prevent electrocution, especially if planted next to a lonely tree.  So expect your 1% hellish in the PNW is more about raging winds and torrents.  And any tent without a heavier freestanding frame to hold it up will be dependent on stakes to keep standing, and at greater risk of failure in the severest blows.

So my take away is that if you had to choose one tent, you would go without the heavier freestanding frame as seen on Everest and rely on extra staking, along with an aerodynamic shape, to spill those severe blows.   “Aerodynamic,” meaning that any walls even close to vertical and horizontal are designed out.  (Think of some of those freestanding box-like tents as an example of what must be avoided.)

If you are inclined to agree, there may be hope for much lighter all purpose tents; but it won’t come from upright trekking poles that have no inherent stability, unless we figure an easy way to stretch the pole and sink one end well into the ground.  Three extended poles lashed into a tripod?  Talk about heavy!

Jeff M;
Re: “I disagree with this.  TarpTent’s patented struts on tents like their Stratospire and Notch, and Durston’s unique offset trekking pole outer and rotated inner have done a lot to maximize interior space without having to resort to a “dome” style tent that requires a full set of poles.”

Just a few posts earlier, the OP, Monte M, posted a video that addresses the shibboleths concerning X-mids and Duplexes, not to mention the Tarptents you mentioned. They all look a bit different; but share the same problem with A-frames: namely, claustrophobic cramped space, due to slanting walls that slope so sharply inward they overly confine the occupants. Tarptent’s “Pitch Locs” do raise those walls up a bit, but not enough to approach anything like a dome tent. They are all side entry tents, and have the gall to stick the only real support, trekking poles, somewhere obstructing the entries. The tents in the video were so suffocating, I had to stop watching it. We only need the tents in adverse weather; and if it gets real bad, we can be stuck in them for a day or more.

Granted, as your reference to a pole set implies, a palatial backpacking tent is going to be far too heavy to qualify for backpacking light. It is a tough problem, and hikers are spending inordinate amounts of money to lower tent weights with laminates like DCF that do not last anywhere near the life of a good woven fabric. That is why I’m so critical of the industry.

But there is some hope.  As I posted yesterday on a current thread in this forum, the best carbon tubing for poles is relatively inexpensive and weighs less than a quarter ounce per running foot. And there are different pole configurations that can make tent walls convex rather than flat or even slightly concave, while eliminating obstructions from upright trekking or other poles completely. Here is a model of one:

The scale is 1″= 1′, and the doll is 6 feet long.  The metal represents the flexible poles, and the wooden struts show the approximate location of seams on the fabric, although the vestibule seams would be catenary cut, and therefor slightly concave.

Because the metal framework uses elbows to form a double crossed convex wall, there is much more inner space created for weight, and some full scale canopies have been constructed that show a convex curvature with an outward deflection of 8 to 10 inches just above the pole crossings.  And because the pole framework is completely free standing, the pressure on the 4 to six stakes needed is far less than on a tent where the trekking poles or other supports are held up by stakes.

However, my question in an earlier post, above, was asked with only one pole, not two crossing  poles, in mind; such that the tent would look like a mid, only with two opposing walls bowed out.  It would place more stress on the stakes in high winds, but the weight reduction might be worth it.  Hope this clarifies a bit my earlier posts on this thread.

if you’re going to do that, then may as well do a tunnel tent

my 1970s tunnel tent has been in worse weather and did better than any mid

I should go set it up.  I bet it will smell terrible because of the PU coating degrading and then I can throw it out.

Good insights, Jeff!

They are all side entry tents, and have the gall to stick the only real support, trekking poles, somewhere obstructing the entries.

The Xmid tents definitely DO NOT do that.   Here’s a stock photo of the XMid 1p.  The Trekking pole is not obstructing the door.

Here’s the Stratospire 2.  The trekking pole MAY intrude into the doorway about an inch but I don’t recall my wife and I ever having a problem with it, and usually I set it up so that it’s out of the way.  In the stock photo, the trekking pole actually appears a bit slanted, and if it were completely vertical, then it would not block the door.  In fact, looking closer, the door on the other side of the tent does not appear to be obstructed by a trekking pole.

Here’s the ZPacks Duplex.  It DOES have the trekking pole right in the middle of their rainbow door, and I think it’s a poor design.  Consequently, I don’t own a Duplex.

Looking at the Gossamer Gear tents, they are similar to the Xmids in that they have a right triangle shaped door with the trekking pole not obstructing it.

Another thing I dislike about the ZPacks Duplex is that they use this rainbow door design.  Which means when it’s unzipped, it’s either lying in the mud outside of the tent, or it’s lying inside the tent and you’re potentially crawling over it.

The tents in the video were so suffocating, I had to stop watching it.

I got news for you.  The Big Agnes Copper Spur 2 isn’t any better in terms of spaciousness.

I just spent a weekend participating as an instructor for a beginner backpacking workshop that we run through our local outdoors club.   The club loaned out 4 Copper Spur UL2’s and 1 Copper Spur UL1.  Two of the other volunteer instructors had ZPacks Duplex 2P tents, but they use them as palatial solo tents.  At 20oz, they’re so lightweight people can afford the weight penalty of carrying and using the Duplex as a palatial 1P.

One of the couples that was given a Copper Spur UL2 last weekend said it was so cramped they wanted to borrow a 3P tent instead.  We see that quite often, even the dome tents:  tents like the Copper Spur 2 and the Nemo Hornet 2P are used as 1-person tents and people look for tents rated for 3 people to use comfortably with 2 adults.

And now a Triplex Zip…as if there were ever any doubt.

Jerry, re; “if you’re going to do that, then may as well do a tunnel tent.”

Never! That would mean Roger is right about everything.

Jeff:  OK, OK.  The X-mid pole is off to the side.  My goal is to have the whole front of the side entry tent unobstructed, as in this canopy prototype:

But am thinking about extending the front vestibule doors (beaks – not shown), and placing an unobstructed triangular shaped zip door between the beaks; especially if the canopy is supported by only one arched pole instead of two double crossed ones, which would lighten the pole weight considerably while enlarging the vestibule a bit.

Guess you were not as struck by Monte’s posted video as I was.  The video and photos all remind me of how cramped an A-Frame can be.  The goal is to build a very light solo tent without the confinement and discomfort shown in the video; but with enough room to prepare a meal and remain dry in an all night storm.  DCF may not be flexible enough for such a tent; but even if it were, the goal is a solo+ that is also affordable, easily packable, in the 16-20 oz range, and sturdy enough to survive the elements for at least several years of backpacking.  Don’t want to get into the DCF vs woven fabric argument; but the price of DCF tents alone rules it out for me.

As far as Big Agnes’ tents are concerned, bought a couple and sent them back after weighing them and getting a close look, but won’t get into that either.  The goal is to encourage better tents, not arguments with companies that are trying to run a business.  By publicizing some ideas, they may be protected from patents and available to anyone who wants to use them.

Never! That would mean Roger is right about everything.

Cheers

The main reason Big Agnes attained such huge tent sales is MARKETING. They were a little ahead of the curve in offering lightweight backpacking tents. BA got in with REI, Campsaver, Backcountry, Moosejaw, etc early on with a plethora of different options. The Copper Spur is a decent design really, but Big Agnes tents are notorious for wetting out and leaking is sustained heavy rainfalls. Very much overpriced as well. One thing I found to be so endearing about the X-Mid is that they’ve been offered at a very fair price to the consumer. A good tent at a good price, kind of like SMD and 3F UL Gear.

“Never! That would mean Roger is right about everything.”

I never made a mistake in my life. I thought I did once, but I was wrong.

Roger; Glad I could get you out of bed.  Haven’t seen you on BPL lately.  Or maybe I’ve not been reading about backpackers’ widgets.

Monte; For a number of years I hiked loops in the vicinity of Big Agnes in Colorado.  There is a stretch where the trail slabs over Little Agnes.  It made me wince thinking of the Big Agnes tents, especially the Fly Creek series.