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Zpacks Duplex Ultralight Tent for PCT thru hike


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Home Forums General Forums General Lightweight Backpacking Discussion Zpacks Duplex Ultralight Tent for PCT thru hike

Viewing 25 posts - 1 through 25 (of 42 total)
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  • #3444289
    ”V” (CzechClown)
    BPL Member

    @czechclown

    Duplex owners which weight cuben fiber would you suggest ?
    <h3>.51 oz/sqyd Standard Cuben Fiber Fabric or</h3>
    <h3>.74 oz/sqyd Spruce Green Cuben Fiber Material</h3>
    I will be using the tent on a 2017 PCT thru hike

    #3444290
    Link .
    BPL Member

    @annapurna

    Check out the video Cameron linked in this THREAD, Redbeard is using the .67 oz/sqyd Camoflage Cuben Fiber Fabric on his zpacks tent on the PCT.

     

    #3444295
    James Marco
    BPL Member

    @jamesdmarco

    Locale: Finger Lakes

    Yup. On any thru hike, a slightly heavier fabric is best. For short duration trips (like a week or two) a lighter fabric is fine, though.

    #3444336
    Nick Gatel
    BPL Member

    @ngatel

    Locale: Southern California

    You won’t need a shelter very often until you hit Oregon.

    #3444341
    Jennifer Mitol
    Spectator

    @jenmitol

    Locale: In my dreams....

    My two closest hiking buddies used the .51 duplex on a JMT thru in 2014, a CT thru in 2015, then a PCT thru last year.  And they set it up most every night.

     

    #3446229
    Colin M
    BPL Member

    @cmcvey23

    I hate worrying about gear rather than enjoying my time in the wilderness! For my tent, I went .74 and my pack is 38oz. There are lighter options but going that route saves only about 10oz and greatly decreases durability. I find these are the sweet spot of being very light but also very durable (for ultralight stuff). How much does 10oz slow me down (when my base weight is under 10lbs) vs having to get a new piece of gear shipped to me on the trail? The day or two wasted is far more than the extra couple minutes on the trail that 10oz slows me down.
    Specifically for the tent, I think the extra couple ounces of my .74 Altaplex for the increased overall useful life of the tent is worth it. It’s better for both punctures and seems quite a bit more durable when it comes to normal wear and tear from packing and unpacking/folding wear. This is a complete estimate but seeing as I’ve torn .51 stuff bags several times and never .74, I’d expect the .51 tent to last me 75 nights before it has so many patches it starts to fall apart whereas I’d think the .74 would last double that.
    I’ll be doing the northern most 700 miles of the PCT this summer with a .74 Altaplex.

    #3446295
    Terry Sparks
    Spectator

    @firebug

    Locale: Santa Barbara County Coast

    i used the lighter .51 cuben Hexamid Solo Plus on my PCT thru in ’14 and never had a problem. That was a dry year and once I got noth of Tuoloumne,  I rarely used it, as I prefer cowboy camping anyway, until I got north of Whites Pass WA. But the tent is still going strong with good care.

    #3446305
    JCH
    BPL Member

    @pastyj-2-2

    What Colin M  said.

    #3446335
    Mark
    BPL Member

    @gixer

    1oz CF is also an option, or it used to be

    My 1oz CF Duplex weighs 728g all packed and ready for action

    #3446416
    Mark Fowler
    BPL Member

    @kramrelwof

    Locale: Namadgi

    It seems to me that we are getting into the “packing your fears” area. .51 oz cuben works very well in my experience including severe storms and hail.  I haven’t seen more than 1 or 2 reports saying it doesn’t and given the number of .51 cuben shelters out there, and the length of time they have been produced, any weaknesses would have been well exposed by now.

    #3446467
    Colin M
    BPL Member

    @cmcvey23

    How so Mark?  61 grams of extra tent fabric on a 630g total weight tent that is not only is significantly stronger but also increases the chances it will be in great shape for resale should he choose to sell it hardly seems like a fear based decision.

    #3446472
    Mark Fowler
    BPL Member

    @kramrelwof

    Locale: Namadgi

    The reason for my post was that Mark upped the ante from .74 to 1 oz cuben. My view is that the manufacturer selected the fabric and this choice has not been invalidated over several years and no doubt several thousand shelters. As we are mostly trying to save weight by finding the lightest option that works for us I find no compelling argument to move to a heavier fabric.  You have different view based on the perceived need for extra strength (not borne out in real world experience as far as I can tell) and an untested assumption that the heavier fabric will increase its saleability in the future. Nothing wrong with your view but I would prefer to save 62 grams.  I am sure you would be delighted to save 62 grams in your cook kit for example.

    #3446490
    Colin M
    BPL Member

    @cmcvey23

    Mark, in my first post I mentioned that I have in fact had multiple failures with .51 stuff sacks and never a problem with .74 thus my decision to have both my cuben shelters built out of .74. Parlaying that experience out to tents, I don’t think it’s a big stretch to assume that the .74 will be in far better shape after 100+ nights of use than the .51 thus increasing it’s value should he choose to sell it. I think you should probably read my first post above for both this and for the reasoning on why I believe the 61 grams is worth it on a key piece of equipment and why that 61g also has a good chance of making the OP faster overall on his hike before assuming that I have no experience with both fabrics and my opinion is invalid.

     

    #3446591
    Mark Fowler
    BPL Member

    @kramrelwof

    Locale: Namadgi

    Colin – your opinion is yours as mine is mine. As long as the gear works its not a big deal.

    Having had both a Hexamid Plus and now a Solplex, both in 0.51, both having had at least 100 nights use I haven’t noticed any serious cuben specific deterioration in either tent, but I am careful with my gear.  Stuff sacks on the other hand do deteriorate due to the very different and harsher usage and have recently replaced my Solplex stuffsack with a sil-nylon one.

    #3446673
    Bob Moulder
    BPL Member

    @bobmny10562

    Locale: Westchester County, NY

    I have a .51 Duplex and have quite a few nights (100, conservatively) in it with no problems. However it has been exposed to serious wind on only 3-4 occasions, and only two of those were alarmingly windy and both associated with strong thunderstorms. I remember seeing photos of a ripped Duplex that was being used by some folks in Scotland, where wind is a more prominent weather feature than here in the Northeast USA.

    So if I camped in places where high winds were regularly encountered I would get the .74, and at this point I think I would get the camo when my current one wears out. But the .51 still has a whole lotta life left in it, so it might be a good while before I have a camo version on the trail.

    #3446679
    Ian
    BPL Member

    @10-7

    I have a Hexamid Twin and hammock tarp in .51 cuben fiber, and a MLD Grace Solo in .75.  All are great shelters.  For me, I prefer .51 and find it perfectly adequate for my needs.

    In my view, the largest benefit of .51 is not the weight savings, but the low volume.  The .75 seems to take up exponentially more room in my pack.

    For me, the type of trips where I’d feel the need to have 1oz cuben fiber (exposed, above treeline, gale force winds) are the trips where I’d likely opt for silnylon mid anyways.  It’s not that a heavier weight cuben fiber couldn’t withstand those forces, but in my experience, silnylon sheds snow better than cuben.

    I think .51 and .75 merit consideration for hiking on the west coast, but considering the extra cost, weight, and bulk, 1oz is overkill.

    #3446741
    Mark
    BPL Member

    @gixer

    The reason for my post was that Mark upped the ante from .74 to 1 oz cuben. My view is that the manufacturer selected the fabric and this choice has not been invalidated over several years and no doubt several thousand shelters. As we are mostly trying to save weight by finding the lightest option that works for us I find no compelling argument to move to a heavier fabric.  You have different view based on the perceived need for extra strength (not borne out in real world experience as far as I can tell) and an untested assumption that the heavier fabric will increase its saleability in the future. Nothing wrong with your view but I would prefer to save 62 grams.  I am sure you would be delighted to save 62 grams in your cook kit for example.

    It’s a case of finding what works best for you, the hiking you do and the areas you hike in.

    I take exception to be told by a complete stranger i’m “packing my fears”

    It’s impossible for you to judge what i expect and how i use my gear if you know nothing about me or where i hike.

    Saying that a manufacturer knows what works best is a little silly, i don’t know about anyone else, but i chose what I think works best for me, not what the manufacturer thinks might work best, i buy the kit i feel will work best for me in the conditions i hike in.

    The reason i went for the 1oz Duplex was due to my .75oz Duplex failing in severe weather.

    A 62g weight gain is a small price to pay for piece of mind and a dry nights sleep, for me.

    #3446794
    Mark Fowler
    BPL Member

    @kramrelwof

    Locale: Namadgi

    Mark – I am sorry you feel so insecure and threatened by what I consider a perfectly reasonable post in keeping with the ethos of this web site “backpacking light” and the purpose of this thread. HYOH and don’t worry if opinions are expressed that differ from your own. I am not offended by your original post even though it is at odds with my own thoughts.

    #3446837
    Dan @ Durston Gear
    BPL Member

    @dandydan

    Locale: Canadian Rockies

    I’ve been using cuben gear for years now, many tents tarps, stuff sacks from 0.33oz to 1.5oz to hybrid cuben. I’ve concluded that cuben almost always fails because of abrasion (or torsion, if you really twist it up when packing), not because of some epic force that tears the spectra fibers. Since both 0.51 and .7oz cuben uses the same outer mylar, I find they last equally long. Either way once the mylar has taken enough abuse it’ll start to peel away and then you’ve got a rats nest of spectra. So I haven’ t seen any indication that 0.7oz lasts longer. Even 1.5oz with heavier mylar meets the end pretty quick once the mylar is compromised – thankfully it has 2x as thick mylar so that lasts a lot longer. I’ve never been too impressed with Zpacks, and particularly not the Duplex, but if I was buying one I’d go 0.5oz.

    With regards to the broader philosophy that it’s worth it to carry an item that is X ounces heaver because those ounces provide some benefit and who really notices X ounces. I think this is a poor way of making gear decisions. Gear items are not carried individually down the trail, where X ounces are noticed or not. Rather a complete kit is carried together. If you switch to a philosophy where 30% heavier is okay because who notices 30% on any one item, this will be true at first but then eventually your entire kit will become 30% heavier and you’ll likely notice that. I certainly prefer 10 lbs to 13 lbs.

    I’m not saying that spending a few ounces for added functionality is bad – it can be very wise – just that rationalizing weight gain by saying you won’t notice those ounces is a poor reason because it can be – and often is – applied to every gear purchase. Surely there’s a better way to decide what ounces are worth carrying and what aren’t.

    I think you want to start with a target weight for your kit – a target weight you’ve thought about and evolved over years of being outside that represents your conclusion of a reasonable, balanced amount of weight to carry given the trip goals. Then make the most of those pounds. If you want to add something, you need to either cut something else or re-evaluate your target weight for your gear kit. Hopefully over time you can get more performance out of those pounds. I see so many people that go a bit too light, but then swing too hard the other way when they replace gear with substantially heavier stuff since the effect of each individual decision is small, even though the total is not. When you’re super light adding a few ounces seems like no big deal, but eventually it catches up with you.

    I know I’m personally guilty of some of this. I remember when I would have had a hard time putting together a solo kit together heavier than 8 lbs from my gear closet. Now I have to struggle to get to 10 lbs and sometimes its 12-13lbs. For my thru-hike this coming summer with electronics etc and a good book I’m almost at 14 lbs. All those little decisions of a couple ounces here and there do add up. I’m not saying 14 lbs is bad, just that it’s not great when it sneaks up on you, and because you bought 30 different things that are all 2-3oz too heavy, going back is really expensive.

    In the case of cuben, I say to stay rigorous and follow the evidence. I don’t think there’s any compelling evidence that 0.7oz lasts better than 0.5oz since they use the same mylar. My experience is they both last okay but will wear out if abraded or twisted. If your expected usage is extreme, then go silnylon.

    #3446842
    Mark
    BPL Member

    @gixer

    Mark – I am sorry you feel so insecure and threatened by what I consider a perfectly reasonable post in keeping with the ethos of this web site “backpacking light” and the purpose of this thread. HYOH and don’t worry if opinions are expressed that differ from your own. I am not offended by your original post even though it is at odds with my own thoughts.

    Mark, you seem to have a tendency for judging complete strangers you know absolutely nothing about, you belittle other peoples choices with nonsense like “packing your fears” then start casting dispersions with a larger brush when people take the time out of their day to explain their choices.

    You use whatever gear works for you, everyone else uses gear that works for them, there really is no need for school yard bickering or trolling.

     

    Dan,

    In my case the corner of the tent tore off, it wasn’t wear related as the tent was brand new, there is no doubt the tent was used outside it’s limits of design though, the wind was strong enough to take me (90kg) off my feet and deposit me 3 meters further down the trail, typical English summer then.

    What matters to me first and foremost is buying and using something that’s functional for the uses i need, weight is secondary to that.

    I don’t think i’m being particularly rebellious with that thinking (on here) either, if other hikers first priority was weight then there would be no market for framed backpacks as everyone would be using mega light cuben frameless packs.

    Like everything in life it’s a balance between priorities, with a rucksack that’ll be comfort, size, functions and weight.

    With a tent i need something i can trust so at the end of a tiring day with atrocious weather where i’m cold and wet i can just throw it up and crawl inside.

    IF i can find that and stay under 1kg perfect, as it is if really bad weather is forecast i go heavier with my TT Scarp.

    It’s easy to overthink gear, at the end of the day we’re talking about a hobby that involves throwing one foot in front of the other, something our species has been doing for thousands of years.

    I choose my gear then forget about it, it’s all about the experience once i’m out there hiking.

    #3446855
    Colin M
    BPL Member

    @cmcvey23

    Hey Dan, way to perfectly illustrate the use of the Slippery Slope argument! OP asked for opinions on .74 vs .51 for their Duplex specifically, not for an argument to make all the items they carry heavier. For a few key items, as I mentioned in my first post here, I have found there is a weight to durability equilibrium that is optimal. Sure, I can save 61g with .51 for my tent but is it worth it? For me, no, as if it tears out it could end my hike and my personal experience with .51 fabric has not been impressive. Torn pants do not end hikes. Bent UL sporks do not end hikes. I don’t even know how to apply that to a headlamp but suffice it to say headlamps going out do not end hikes. Torn out tents and broken packs do end hikes (or at least add days of delays) so more care should be applied to those purchases. We are on BPL so IMO, any increase in weight needs to be justified. For me, the increased durability and decreased chance for issues greatly out weight the .61 grams, particularly considering the amount of time a torn out shelter can end up causing, ceteris paribus.

    BTW, .51 and .74 are not the same; you must be thinking of the camo stuff that’s the same thread count as .51 with the patterned layer sandwiched in. .74 uses both thicker membranes (edit: maybe? Not sure about mylar being thicker) and a higher thread count so it is both stronger to sheer forces as well as being more puncture resistant.

    #3446864
    Colin M
    BPL Member

    @cmcvey23

    I find it funny .74 is so controversial here when even makers of cuben shelters don’t agree that .51 is strong enough of a fabric. Zpacks is really one of the few manufacturers to say .51 is fine where MLD, Six Moon Designs and HMG rarely use anything but .74. MLD only uses it for small shelters and specifically point out “it will have a shorter service life [vs. .74].”

    As such, I find it peculiar some seem to think .74 is unnecessary when the majority of manufacturers disagree with you.

    #3446868
    William Chilton
    BPL Member

    @williamc3

    Locale: Antakya

    To the best of my knowledge, .51 and .74 do have the same mylar thickness, thus the 08 in their (previous?)  name.

    Incidentally, the incident that Bob alludes to (though I think it happened in the English Lake District, not Scotland) involved a Duplex with .74, IIRC.

    #3446871
    Jeffs Eleven
    BPL Member

    @woodenwizard

    Locale: NePo

    Ahhhh!  This thread reminds me of the old days.  In a good way.

    #3446872
    Nick Gatel
    BPL Member

    @ngatel

    Locale: Southern California

    Back to the OP. Either shelter will be fine to complete a PCT thru, if you don’t abuse the shelter. Many people have done the hike with both.

    I’m not going to bother and go to the zPacks website to see if Joe still puts this in his marketing blurb, but he used to say that his Cuben shelters should last one long thru-hike of about 2,500 miles. If someone wants a longer lasting shelter then Cuben might not be the material of choice.

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