Calling All ZPacks Duplex Users

I’ve only got 22 night on the JMT in my spring 2015 Duplex then I sold it so I haven’t hit the 50 night mark but it’s a fantastic tent and I can share a couple of experiences.

• The bathtub floor is great in a deluge. I ended up in several inches of water during an epic thunderstorm above Guitar Lake. I suddenly noticed a floating feeling and realized the lower half of my body was buoyant on my NeoAir mattress with water just shooting under my side of the tent. I never had a drop of water leak through. I’m really glad I had thick DCF rather than silnylon under me that afternoon/evening.
• My Duplex was before the door toggles were added. Those doors would let some rain through in swirling winds. We ended up improvising with our rain skirts to keep the water out. I suspect the door toggles fix this potential weakness but they would only be needed in rare circumstances.
• I selected the Duplex because I was thru-hiking the JMT with my 12 year old and I wanted the lightest option that would protect us from mosquitos so that I could cover shelter for him and keep weight outbid his pack.

My favorite site we camped in the Duplex was just above Silver Lake Pass.

I’ve been using a fall 2015 version (the one before the Flex + door toggles upgrades). Only have about 20 nights on it so far. Here are my thoughts:

• Got it because I wanted the lightest, simplest, full-coverage 3+ season, 1-2P shelter I could find for my money, as I sleep roughly 50% of the time solo and the other 50% with my wife.
• Have the .74 oz/sqyd version.
• Pitching takes a bit of practice at first, but once you get the hang of it it’s very easy and quick.
• Poles set at the recommended 48″ height work for 1 (though i prefer ~46″), but not really for 2 IMHO. It significantly diminishes the usable interior space since the bathtub walls are lifted higher, and puts too much tension on the bug netting. I prefer setting it at around 44″ when sleeping with my wife (it still gives you a good bathtub).
• Tying the head/foot wall guy-outs (ideally propped-up with poles or sticks), increases headroom significantly, which I’ve found helps with condensation in humid environments.
• I’ve only been caught in 1 serious storm so far, and it performed perfectly. Had strong winds and rain from about noon to around 10 am the next morning, and save for some condensation (designated campsite was poorly located) it kept us dry and held strongly. Good pitching is obviously key here. I didn’t experience much door flapping as others have mentioned.
• Speaking of door flapping, I have found setting it up with the doors clipped closed helps getting a tighter pitch, which perhaps helps with the flapping others have mentioned (?). I do plan to send it back to ZPacks so they can add the new door toggles, upgrade the door clips/hooks to the newer version (which seem easier to operate), and add the Flex upgrades.
• The door clips on my version are practically impossible to operate with one hand, and their position makes them hard to reach from the inside. The first problem might be solved by the new clip design (?); the second I’m not sure how it can be solved without a completely different tent design.
• Would have loved a real, modular double wall version—wish ZPacks would sell that.
• Pain to setup on platforms (obviously, I knew that going in); hopefully the Flex upgrade will alleviate this for the most part.
• I got mine without the LineLocs but added the ones ZPacks sells with loops, so they could be easily removed. Honestly, once added I stopped caring and left them on, but would probably still order it the same way since it makes it easier to repair in case one breaks.

Unfortunately I haven’t taken many pictures of it—I’ve usually been too tired and/or it’s been too dark at night when I set it up, and get going quickly in the morning. This one is from that trip with the storm, though not at the same campsite.

This is a thread on this topic at trek-lite.com, our friends across the ocean:

http://www.trek-lite.com/index.php?threads/talk-me-out-of-a-zpacks-duplex.660/

When you climb through this thread there is a link to a video of a duplex getting bombed in a hailstorm, and then sitting on flowing water. Go to the 13′:30″ mark in the video:

I got mine this spring because I was looking for one tent that I could use for both solo use and for camping with my wife. So far I have only used it for 10 nights. My wife really likes. The only thing I have had trouble with is the carbon fiber stakes. I have had 3 tips come off, Although to be fair Z Packs sent out replacements immediately. I will switch to some other stakes next year.

I got it with the .74 material hoping for greater durability.

It is easy to pitch. I found that pitching it at 45″ seems to work better for 2 people. At 48″ there was quite a bit of stress on the netting when closing the zippers. Alone 48″ was fine.

Had quite a storm one night on the Superior Hiking Trail with heavy rain and had almost no condensation dripping.

I always set it up with the doors closed and seemed to get a nice pitch. I like the fact that with cuben fiber there is no need to retighten the tent.

This picture was taken on our first night in the Wind River Range.

Well, while I have no personal experience with the Duplex, I did get some insight into its performance from Lou & Marion Darveniza from Australia.  I met them while hiking the High Sierra Trail this summer, and chatted with them for quite some time about their lightweight gear.  Much of the discussion centered on the Duplex they were using.  I don’t know the year, but I a do know it was pre 2016.  The one complain they had was from Lou, who is 6’4″ or so.  Lou generally has trouble keeping in one place while sleeping unless the tent is pitched on perfectly flat ground.  If it rains, the pressure of his feet on the end of the tent allows water to run onto the ground sheet through the mesh.  Other than that, they were extremely happy with their tent and put a LOT of miles/nights on it.

Jorge is totally right about dropping the poles down a couple inches to take tension off the bug net and relax the bathtub a little wider.

re pole height: Totally agree that ZPack’s recommended pole length of 48″/120cm is too long in almost every situation.  I always start at 45″/115cm and adjust up or down (mostly down) depending on the lay of the site and weather.  I chose 45″ for my MYOG fixed length CF poles for when the trip does not warrant trekking poles…they can be “lowered” by angling the pole and/or digging it into the ground a little.

6’4″ is definitely stretching it (pun intended) for the Duplex in general much less for 2 people.  At 6’1″ I sleep solo diagonally with the panels pulled out and it is perfect.

I purchased the Duplex in Nov 2013 so have one of the first production models. I really like the door closure, and wind is not a problem if it is oriented the right way. I have retrofitted both the door toggles and double-hook door closure upgrades as well as adding lineloc 3s at all 4 corners and both apexes.

I have yet to see another shelter that appeals to me as much, much less more, than the beautifully minimal, well considered, and well engineered Duplex.

Besides many local weekend trips here in California of the last couple of years, my sons and I used the Duplex (in .51 cuben) in 2014 during a four week trip crossing the Brooks Range and my daughter and i used the Duplex this summer to cross Iceland in three weeks.https://backpackinglight.com/forums/topic/traversing-iceland-a-father-daughter-adventure/ Our Duplex saw pretty severe weather during the trips in Alaska and Iceland and mastered it well. We own the Duplex as well as the SMD Haven  in Cuben with InnerNet (which we take when we want a truly double wall tent).

Our Duplex doesn’t have the door toggles — and in our experience doesn’t need them if the tent is pitched with right orientation into the wind. The doors will automatically close if the overlapping door panel is pitched into the wind. The wind will push it down on the other panel and there is no flapping. If the tent – that looks symmetric – is pitched the other way around, the wind will grab that overlapping panel, start to flap it and in strong wind turn it into a sail. We have over 50 nights in the tent and don’t yet have any problems. My wife likes the simplicity of pitching the Duplex compared to pitching the Haven where we have to attach the inner net to it. She also likes that the Duplex always has the mosquito net built in as I’m known to not take the inner net with our Haven and sometimes the mosquito pressure is bigger than I anticipated.

I don’t have the tent in hand right now so I have a question for those of you who have pitched the Duplex at various heights.

There’s a recurring theme that 48″ is the recommended pitch, but it seems that many of you pitch it lower to realize some other benefits: increase floor space, retain more heat, etc.

So my specific question is this:

Does pitching the tent at a lower height negatively impact tensioning of the panels in a way that compromises its wind resistance/stability?

Do you have any photos that compare a “low” pitch vs. a “high” pitch?

http://ultralightinsights.blogspot.com/2016/09/gear-review-zpacks-duplex-tarp.html?m=1

“Does pitching the tent at a lower height negatively impact tensioning of the panels in a way that compromises its wind resistance/stability?”

We usually pitch at about 44″, as it seems to put less stress on the door zips. It has absolutely no negative effect on the tensioning of the panels, in our experience.

Low pitch pic:

Does pitching the tent at a lower height negatively impact tensioning of the panels in a way that compromises its wind resistance/stability?

None whatsoever [that I’ve noticed].

I haven’t noticed a difference in tightness of pitch but it really relieves the tension on the Zipper.

Does pitching the tent at a lower height negatively impact tensioning of the panels in a way that compromises its wind resistance/stability

Since the inner tent (mesh and floor) simply hangs…loosely…from the tarp, it is the only thing affected by the height at which the tent is pitched. The pitch of the tarp part of the Duplex is pretty much identical no matter the height.

Although we only have about 10 nights in our ’16 model I was pretty much convinced the first couple of nights out. First off I find it so simple to pitch. If you watch it done once on a video you should be a pro. First time I set it up was about half the time of setting up my BA fly creek 2. I was concerned at first on the overall footprint as space in our stomping grounds can be tight at times but no worries, it tucks into tiny spots remarkable well. Much better than my  previous shelter. I bought the camo version and it is awesome for stealth camping as well as a bit more privacy for the wife. It also tones down the full moons so rest comes easier. I would agree with pitching it a little lower to lessen the tension on the netting in the corners and possibly the doors. With two people it shouldn’t lower the tub floor enough to mattter unless you park it in a dry stream bed with an approaching deluge.

Under good weather conditions we have had no issues with condensation. We use a window film footprint for added protection but soon found out that it also keeps the tent bottom bone dry from ground moisture as well as clean. If the polycro is wet or dirty in the morning it gets packed as such, no big deal.

Trip before last we had a great foul weather test with an all night hammering of rain. Conditions were right for condensation and as expected wiping down of the inner walls was necessary. It is an added chore but it is easy to do with this design and well worth the little bit of effort for the reduction of weight. I left two doors open at first to see how the overlapping design would work but soon the storm was overpowering the overlap and wetting the screens a bit. Next time before an impending storm  I will simply close all four doors.

As far as interior space goes its huge compared to our previous shelter. Of course this will depend on your individual size but at 5’8″ the wife and I have room to stretch out and extra room for stowing packs and small items at the foot and head. The little net pockets are not really necessary but for negligible weight they can and do come in handy. In fair or foul weather we have plenty of room to fully pack our gear while inside, less the shelter itself.

Before pulling the trigger on this shelter I thought long and hard of a MYOG CF shelter but with the season pressing in on us and after receiving our Duplex I was glad I made the commitment and very pleased with the overall quality and build of this shelter. I have absolutely no regrets in spending, what for us, is a very considerable chunk of change.

As far as longevity goes, time will tell. I have no illusions that this item will last generations but I do believe with proper care it can surely pay for itself.

Hope this helps.

Excellent shelter, and purchased from the BPL gear swap, no less. Just served me (5’10”) and a friend (6’2″) well in the Wind River Range for four nights. Snowed 2.5 inches the first night.

Picture was taken just above Island Lake, with Fremont Peak and Titcomb Basin in background.

GREAT feedback, everyone! Thank you.

I have a few specific questions:

There are these side-panel tie-outs. But when we use them, and whenever I see people’s photos of them in use, they create these tension wrinkles between the tie-out and the tops of the poles. This seems (to me) to create undue stress in high winds (watch what happens in high wind here).

Maybe I’m hung up on aesthetics.

I know they are there to prevent the panel from collapsing in high wind, but I’m wondering if there are improvements to be made here.

Discuss!

Tension wrinkles. Maybe but as good as these shelters are you have to admit from an outsiders perspective it must look like were sleeping in trash bag forts. If I’m dry….I dont sweat the small stuff :)

The tension wrinkles occur because of cuben’s lack of stretch and the change in topology of the panel from a flat plane caused by the tieouts being pulled away from the panel plane.  In a silnylon tent the same tensions are there but disguised by the stretchiness of the fabric.  I have a Solplex rather than the Duplex.  When pitching I choose to not pull the panels out of plane to any great degree, I don’t need the additional headroom, and the guy does its job of limiting the panel inverting in response to wind.  It does help to use a prop part way along the guy line to keep the angle close to perpendicular to the panel but this applies in all tents.

+1 to what kramrelwof wrote.

Mod notes: although we appreciate the attempt at comparing Duplex performance features to the character of a certain well-known politician, this reply has been edited to remove political commentary, which may offend some users.

Don’t see how you can avoid wrinkles on any tent.

Even if you have a drum tight pitch when the wind really blows it’ll find any loose bit of outer material.

Had my Duplex at wind speeds that were picking up both me and my brother off our feet (with rucksacks) and was dumping us over 1meter back down the path.

Tent did amazingly well, it did eventually tear off one of the corners but there is absolutely no way i’d ever pitch a tent in conditions like that again.

Although the tent looked after us through the night (failed around 05:00) it was a miserable miserable night.

The Duplex is not a place you want to spend any time in if it’s windy and raining.

The doors were flapping, even though we pitched the tent as tight as we could when the wind really blew the sides bowed inwards to the point where out heads were literally pinned to the ground inside the tent.

What made it worse was the rain though.

With the wind it was absolutely essential we pitched low, with a normal pitch (i.e, fly 6″ or so off the ground) the tent was like a parachute and each timer the wind blew it carried in enough water through the side vents that our hair was dripping wet.

We really had no choice but to drop the tent lower, but then we had no bathtub, so standing water blew in, we ended up trying to prop up the bathtub corners but with limited success.

The doors were also a problem, this was before the toggle thing so as the wind blew it bowed both doors and let in a LOT of water.

These conditions were terrible though, we’d arranged a meet with folks that camp in areas and conditions i wouldn’t, yet they decided to stay home.

When we hiked out the next morning and dropped down to civilisation there were trees blown over and roofs missing off houses.

I would NOT use my Duplex in windy conditions again, the side panel is just too much fabric for those sorts of condition IMO, but for milder conditions i’m still a big big fan.

IF there was some way of keeping a bathtub with the tent dropped into limpet mode it would add a fair bit of usefulness for UK conditions though.

The Duplex that the corner failed on was .75oz CF, Zpacks replaced it without any fuss and were fantastic, my new version is made out of 1oz CF.

Ryan – There was a very active thread in the year after the Duplex was released concerning it’s use in extreme weather.  One of the participants was from the UK and was lamenting it’s performance in high winds. You may want to try and find that thread.  IMO, the Duplex design tradeoffs that make it darn near perfect for most weather situations make it totally unsuitable in high winds…as @gixer’s account demonstrates.

To answer your question about the side panels, I consider the “tension wrinkles” to be a non-issue. I’ve used the Duplex many times in winds up to 20-25 mph, with the panels pulled out as shown below, and never had any problems. If I know in advance the wind will come up during the night, I may not pull out the upwind panel. I always pull out the downwind panel for increased headroom and sleep with my head at that end.

I asked Joe about the strength of the tie out-to-panel connections and he said they had not to that point received any reports of failure. As stated previously, in windy conditions, it is important to pitch the tent with the correct end into the wind (ZPacks logos in the corners upwind) so the door overlap works as intended. While I have retrofitted the mid-door toggle closures, they will not solve the problem caused by incorrect orientation, but in swirling winds they do help some.

I have been doing this UL backpacking thing for 17 years. At least. And have accumulated too much stuff to even remember.

Out of all the backpacks and tents and sleeping bags and stoves and pads, the Duplex is my very favorite piece of gear. It is perfect. Minimal, reliable, simple, and elegant. In all honesty, it may be my very favorite thing out of everything I own!

I have never felt the need to use the side panel tie outs. However, use a trekking pole at that location to pull the guyline perpendicular from the panel. That removes the wrinkles.

I use 45″ fixed length trekking poles to set up the tent. I agree that 48″ is too high and might rip the rainbow zipper. The geometry of the tent works well at either height-the only difference is the angle of the storm flaps.

The new anchor shaped hooks for the storm flaps are much easier to use than the original carabiners. It’s nice that this tent has gone through several levels of refinement based on customer feedback.

I have wondered this, however. When the doors are rolled open, there are grosgain loops that tie them back with a toggle. When the doors are closed, the grosgain loops are exposed about halfway up the outer edge of the door. These seem to be the perfect location to attach a guyline in ahigh wind situation. I just don’t know if they are strong enough to handle that kind of stress. Is there any experience using these? Could this be tested?

I have wondered this, however. When the doors are rolled open, there are grosgain loops that tie them back with a toggle. When the doors are closed, the grosgain loops are exposed about halfway up the outer edge of the door. These seem to be the perfect location to attach a guyline in ahigh wind situation. I just don’t know if they are strong enough to handle that kind of stress. Is there any experience using these? Could this be tested?

In a photo from this thread, that is exactly what Manfred Kopisch has done: