YER EXPERIENCE WITH DYNEEMA TENT FLOORS?

[Opogobalus]

So, where on earth are RSBTR getting their “data” from? Are they doing tests that have different results? Are they going of factory specs? Or are they doing, as dan suggested, very informal “I yanked fabric x and fabric y and x seemed probably twice as strong” tests?

[Sam Farrington]

Poking around, noted that the Trekkertent Saor comes in two DCF versions: lighter  3-season and a heavier stronger version for cold weather.  The lighter version’s floor is 30D silnylon, the heaver version has a silpoly PU 4000, but the denier is not listed.  Although the FAQ section states their 4 season floors are generally silnylon in heavier deniers.

This only added to my confusion about poly vs nylon for floors.  Perhaps it is a TMI situation, where uncertainty produces too much information for consumers to make good decisions.  Some times this is done intentionally to confuse, something I endured in organizational politics; but at other times is done quite innocently.

When confronted with TMI, it is a good idea to ask for evidence, realizing that TME (too much evidence), such as lengthy data sheets from uncertain sources, can just add to the confusion.  However, speculation, while helpful in developing theories to be tested, is not much help in resolving differences of opinion or making choices.

I think this is what we have on this thread, and doubt it is helpful to the OP and others who have expressed some bewilderment.  So we may need some more contributions from others who have had experiences with nylon vs poly, as well as DCF for floors.

Hope we can agree that there is less slippage with the  poly, which is a primary attraction I saw on BPL posts when RBTR came out with it.  Ordered some. but found that it was heavier and stiffer than desired.  Floors also take considerable abuse, so the next question is which material, when used as a floor, is more resistant for its weight to abrasion and punctures.  My two cents about that were posted above.

Even if you are using the tent during sunny days, instead of nights or rain like me, I doubt that a floor will receive enough sun to be affected by deterioration due to exposure to light.

So each of us is left to make our own decision about materials for tent floors; DCF, poly or nylon.  It would be helpful to hear from more backpackers about this.  Otherwise, the choice suggested by most appears to be DCF, which I fear may not be the right one.

[Dan @ Durston Gear]

Regarding slippage – this is primarily the result of silicone coatings. Both poly and nylon are quite slick with silicone, but grippy with PU or PE. I recommend at least the top side of the floor is not silicone.

[Opogobalus]

For you then Dan, is there any significant difference *for floors* on the general properties of nylon or poly? Obviously, as already demonstrated there are wide ranges of differences between different variations of 20d silpolys etc, but, in broad strokes?

[Stumphges]

Hydrostatic head, puncture resistance, abrasion resistance, weight, water absorption (weight), packability, cost, slipperiness.

poly with sil/pu or sil/pe coatings seem to have the best balance of traits and definitely best performance/price, as Dan has been saying for a couple years.

DCF and maybe especially 0.8 looks good if price and packability are not turnoffs, especially considering Xavier’s data on surprisingly good puncture resistance.

Nylon w/ sil/pu also solid but will hold water weight and possibly superior tear resistance not too important to a floor.

[Stumphges]

BTW, gossamer gear using 10d and 15d nylons with sil/UTS coatings for both fly and floor.

What is UTS?

 

[James Marco]

UTS is Ultra Tear Strength.

From RBTR: Unlike many traditional PU coatings, UTS is specially formulated to increase tear strength while offering excellent hydrolysis performance (i.e. breakdown of coating in water).

[Dan @ Durston Gear]

UTS appears to be just a marketing term for PE coatings. “Polyether urethane” doesn’t sound nearly as rad as “Ultra Tear Strength”.

“For you then Dan, is there any significant difference *for floors* on the general properties of nylon or poly?”
I think nylon vs poly is pretty inconsequential for floors, since coatings, denier, threadcount, calendaring etc matter a lot more. Nylon might have an edge in tear strength, poly seems to have an edge in abrasion – but those are only generalizations and individual fabrics vary a lot. The tear strength we have for our 20D poly floor is roughly in line with the average 30D nylon, and similar to the highest 20D nylon I’ve seen, so I’m not aware of a 20D nylon that would give higher tear strength. A nylon floor would be good too. I’m not against it. I see it as basically a toss up, so I side with poly because it doesn’t absorb water weight, which nylon can do quite a bit if you’re camped on wet ground. Oftentimes it’s these mundane but real advantages that matter more than sensational but theoretical advantages.

[Phong D]

Hey Sam, the Silnylon 6.6 you mentioned, does it absorb water?  I’ve used window insulation polycro on a hike from Washington to California.  It worked well enough for me, and I am still using the same piece now.  Oregon rained alot and was seldom sunny enough for me to dry out my gear, since then I have been concerned about materials absorbing water.  This was partly because they get heavy, but mostly because they are hard to dry, and they get OTHER gear wet…like moisture just spreads and is very hard to stop.

Anyway, I’d like to hear a good comparison between Sil 6.6 and polycro if you have one.

[Sam Farrington]

Hi Phong D,

Sorry, cannot fully answer, because  do not use ground sheets, so have not used polycro (or polycryo).  I’ve not seen specs for its strength and durability, such as tear, puncture and abrasion resistance; but do know that most plastic films are not suitable for sewing, so would not try to use it for a floor material sewn into a tent.  My choice for a tent floor would be at least 20D 6.6 silnylon with at least 3000mm HH, not just for its water resistance, but also for its strength, flexibility and durability.  As stated earlier, I’ve used silnylon for the floors of my last two tents, and the floors still look like new.

I do not use ground sheets, because in addition to keeping tent pitching simple and quick,  I don’t want another waterproof layer under the floor preventing water from draining into permeable ground, or getting between the two layers, trapping water and driving it through the floor with an accordion-like action.  I use tents with strong and highly waterproof floors for the protection they offer from extreme weather, the goal being to not get soaked, ever.

So I don’t use ground sheets, either polycro or anything else.  No fiddling – the tent goes up, and I’m done.  Of course, site selection precedes that, and level, water permeable ground, without exposure to drainage is the goal.  No disrespect intended to mountaineers who pitch on rock.

Perhaps careful site selection, even in nasty weather, maybe especially in nasty weather, is why I can’t’ recall being caught with a soaked floor bottom.  Even when I’ve had to towel off the tent canopy before folding and rolling up the tent, there has usually been a dry spot where the tent floor was.  The floor being dry, the damp tent is folded lengthwise inside it, and then rolled up, bound with shockcord loops, and slid into a waterproof stuffsack.

So there is no problem with anything being soaked in the pack.  Granted, if the tent’s outer canopy or fly is nylon, there will be some absorption of water, but not soaking it up like a sponge as some might suggest.  Although it will make the tent somewhat heavier to carry.  Toweling off the outer tent or fly before folding has limited the increased weight, but when rain rarely continues unchecked into the next day, packing up has to be a wet process.

Maybe trekking in the NW US is a different story from what I’ve experienced.  I’ve trekked mostly in CO and WY, and northern New England (Only single treks in the Canada Rockies, the JMT  and the Uintas years ago – saw no horrendous deluges there either).   The rain in northern VT, for example, can sometimes go on for a week or so with only short letups. But in CO a few days is the most I’ve encountered, and that was rare.

If in the NW US you are going to be in flooding situations even with good site selection, the waterproofing would be most important.  Note that RBTR specs its 1.1 oz (1,4 oz coated) 6.6  30D silnylon as over 3000mm HH.  It is only available in white.  A dark green color is available from Thru-Hiker for another 1.4 oz 6.6 silnylon that was tested by Richard Nisley on BPL to around 3000mm HH.

RBTR also sells a 1.1 oz sil/PU blend coated polyester it specs as approx. 2000mm HH.  It specs it’s 1.1 oz PU4000 polyester as approx. 4000mm HH, but also represents its tear strength and puncture resistance as Low-Med or Med-Low, which calls its suitability as a floor material into some question.

It seems unlikely that heavy ambient moisture levels in the air can soak a tent floor; and with good site selection and less than flooding conditions, I’ve not experienced soaking wet floors since in the scouts, where some of us pitched tents and tarps any old place; on moderately sloping dirt tracks for example, and got washed out.

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