will the nike wildhorse 3 solve all of life's problems?

[Jon Fong / Flat Cat Gear]

Interesting thread. A few years ago, I had problems with my feet and the pain was diagnosed as Plantar fasciitis (UCLA Medical Center).  It appears that this was due to age, weight and the fact that I spent several months wearing sandals.  Plantar fasciitis is sometimes called flip flop foot (at least in my area) as it has been associated with warmer weather and people wearing flip flops all of the time (guilty).  I did get custom inserts made and my Dr. recommended that if I wore sneakers to get them with arch support and that I needed pronation control (my feet tend to angle outward).  The problem has gone away, I think that the biggest problem was wearing flip flops for so long.  My 2 cents.

[Roger Caffin]

How curious. I have worn flip flops for most of my life. I do not suffer from plantar fasciitis.

Sorry Jon, but I do not think your doctor knew much about feet or plantar fasciitis. His diagnosis flies against most of the medical opinion I have read. General opinion seems to be that it represents some sort of micro-tear injury in the tendon and that it will sort itself out in 6 – 12 months. Some add ‘regardless of treatment’!

Cheers

 

[Jon Fong / Flat Cat Gear]

Roger,

My understanding is that plantars fasciitis is due to straining the tendon between the heel and the toes.  Pronation can cause your arch to collapse as your foot rolls slightly inward.  The pain is caused by straining the tendon.  BTW, the pain only existed for a short period when waking up and getting out of bed, after a few steps the pain would go away.  I did stop wearing flip flops and do use orthopedic arch supports on my dress shoes and Arch support/pronation sneakers.  It took about a month for the morning pain to subside.  The Dr. was from the UCLA Med Center, I had X-Rays of my feet and saw the comparison between mine and the text book case of  plantars fasciitis.  I am not sure what more you are looking for, it works for me.

[HiLight]

No doctor here, but I wonder if a lack of arch support (flip flops) on non-flat feet (Jon) could lead to Flip Flop Foot, while a lack of arch support (flip flops) on flat feet (Roger) could lead to Happy Feet.

Or maybe they just have bitchin’ flip flops in Australia.

[Roger Caffin]

Hi Jon

First of all, let me repeat: I am not a medical doctor, just an opinionated walker. Perhaps though I just have a lot more close-up experience of foot problems… :-)

My understanding is that plantars fasciitis is due to straining the tendon between the heel and the toes.
Often referred to as ‘micro-tears’. It’s probably about the same thing.
The early morning pain is often due to what are called ‘attachments’, which formed in the night. These attachments are tiny bits of the micro-tears rejoining, usually too short for the rest of the tendon. When stressed, they hurt. A few steps in the morning is enough to break those few attachments so for the rest of the day they don’t hurt any more. But sometimes they reform in the night.

Coming over Le Brevent opposite Mt Blanc I had a sore ankle. It had been touchy for a few days after a stumble. I stumbled again, and as I went down onto a knee the thought flashed through my mind: ‘this is going to hurt’. But when I stood up, there was no pain AT ALL. I had broken the attachments which had formed, and was now back to the fully healed tendon. Joy.

Pronation can cause your arch to collapse as your foot rolls slightly inward.
Here I say b*****t. It is completely the reverse.
If your arch collapses as your foot rolls forwards, that would have to be due to seriously weak tendons under the foot – including the plantar. The human race has hundreds of thousands of years of good evolution here, and the foot is engineered as best as evolution can make it. But if your tendons are weak, you can have problems. The cure for that is exercise.
The appearance of the arch collapsing might be what some might call a ‘pronation problem’, but we should not confuse a real mechanical cause with a catch-all cover phrase which conceals a lack of genuine knowledge. The medical fraternity has many of these Latin terms which really mean ‘we don’t know’.

It took about a month for the morning pain to subside. 
Other medical opinion is that it would have gone away in the same time if you had done nothing at all. Eventually the loose torn bits of tendon, the micro-tears, wither away. That approach would not have cost you as much either.

By the way – I do not think I have ‘flat feet’. I have quite a solid arch.

Cheers

[HiLight]

Ah, I misplaced my copy of The Complete Caffin, and went from memory.

Wide, but not flat, correct?

[Roger Caffin]

Snerk!

Yeah, 4E wide, but certainly not ‘flat’.

Cheers

 

[HiLight]

Noted.

For the record, I still suspect that Australia has the edge in flip flop tech.

[Roger Caffin]

I prefer to think we have the flap, not the edge, in flip flop …
Or is it the flup? :-)

Cheers

[HiLight]

As I have never gazed upon Ayers Rock, I will defer to your wisdom in this matter.

Flap flup, it is.

[Roger Caffin]

In the meantime, a proper Review of the Wildhorse 3 shoes would be appreciated. Anyone?

Cheers

[Justin Baker]

Roger, I think that the correlation between flips flops and foot issues has to do more with the way your foot tries to grip the flip flop, repetitive muscle grip action or something, rather than a lack of arch support. I have heard that simply adding a backstrap stops that issue.

I like flip flops but I have gotten foot pain from walking in them for extended periods of time. I only wear flat minimal footwear so the issue is not a lack of arch support. I have a very high arch that developed from wearing flat shoes with very little cushioning.

[Roger Caffin]

Hi Justin

the correlation between flips flops and foot issues has to do more with the way your foot tries to grip the flip flop, 
I dunno. But then, I don’t bother trying to grip the flip flop either. I just let them … flip and flop.

I have a very high arch that developed from wearing flat shoes with very little cushioning.
Exactly. Wearing flat shoes means that one’s feet have to do the work – and that is just the exercise feet and arches need.
What is equally as amusing is the way most elderly walkers I know all have quite wide feet. Most of them wear very minimal footwear too, with no ‘support’ at all. (It’s sort of trad around here.) One could be forgiven for wondering whether all the exercise without foot-binding has made their feet develop?

Cheers

[Colin M]

Zak, the original Kieger lasted me probably 500 miles of running and hiking before breaking down. Tread wore very well (about 1/3rd left at 500 miles) but I’ve yet to find any running shoe that goes 500+ miles without the actual cushioning of the sole breaking down under my 180lbs.

I checked out the Wildhorse 3’s in the store and wore them on the treadmill. I didn’t buy them but they seemed very much like my Kieger 3’s but more cushioned and with 3mm more drop. Aside from the non gusseted tongue I think they would work for many as a hiking shoe with a moderately wide forefoot, very comfortable upper and enough cushioning for big mileage. For me, they are a bit more drop than I personally like as my feet like 0-6mm best (varies by application, I like 0 for PCT style trails, up to 6 for very steep, sustained, repeated big climbs) but I’m sure I’d be fine in them.

[Nick Gatel]

Instead of a review on a Nike shoe, this is better IMO

Gear That Works: Flip Flops

My primary footwear has always been flip flops for almost 60 years. My secondary footwear has been no footwear — barefooted. Because of this, just about any shoe works as a backpacking shoe for me, as long as the shoe fits.

I generally ignore shoe reviews. I buy the lightest shoes with zero drop if possible, which is usually a cross country racing flat for most walking.

[HiLight]

Nick – That’s nice and all, but the footwear experience of the Naʼvi may not translate to us puny humans.

[Colin M]

I swear minimalist shoe people are right there in the vegan/crossfit/triathalon religion!

[HiLight]

Colin – Is there a difference between people that only require minimal shoes and Minimalist Shoe People?

[Clue M]

I think of it like this :

Minimalist Shoe people frequently have weak hips, knees, and ankles.  They pronate so much that they almost walk on the inside of the shoes.

People that only need minimal shoes walk on the soles.

You can tell the difference by looking at their stride and how the shoes are wearing.

[Colin M]

Of course! Some people eat only non-animal product, some tell everyone meat is murder. Some people get in great shape doing crossfit, others post all over their social media every detail of their workout. Some people wear minimalist shoes (like me) and some people tell everyone they are doing it wrong if they wear anything else!
Tongue in cheek, we can’t really take any of this too seriously right?!

[Roger Caffin]

Right.

Cheers

 

[Zak S]

Thanks Colin.  4mm drop is working out really well for me on the stuff I normally do, and the Kiger heights match that of my favorite shoe.  The “maximalist” shoe I have is a little taller than the wildhorse, and also 4mm drop- it’s super comfy, but it feels too wide for me (outside, the fit is fine).  I’ve got a couple hundred more miles to wear either of them out, and I’ve only been running regularly for a bit more than a year. . . I’ll probably wait a while before I buy any replacements.

 

 

[HiLight]

If I wore Five Fingers with thick socks, but only on plush carpet, would that still make me a MSP?

Back to ben – Lots of generally positive WH3 reviews, but I’d still have to try them on before knowing how they’d work for me. Since you’ve had good experiences with Nike, I’d give ’em a go.

[Nick Gatel]

Ben,

If those Nike’s look good for you, then you should buy them. Fit is most important. Since you can’t get much Google information, there is only one option — buy them and see if You are happy.

As to diet, here is my new favorite  holiday.

[ben .]

ha, i like that you all are trying to bring this back to the original question. no need!

and yes, i’ll probably try these shoes out sometime in the near future :)

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