Where is the bias-stable DCF for tents?

[Jerry Adams]

ahhh… that’s what those vertical lines are

hmmm… that seems like a negative feature

[Eric Blumensaadt]

When I look at my Gen. 2 Tarptent Notch Li I see that Henry Shires designed in more reinforcing areas than the Gen. 1 Notch Li. This good design detail is what makes Tarptent products last longer. As well, the build quality of the Gen. 2  TT Dyneema tents  is a somewhat better than previously, being made in a top Chinese tent making factory.

Additionally when I decided to add 4 fly hem stake loops I asked Henry to send me 4 circular Dyneema patches, which he did. I folded them around the fly hem edge, so 1/2 was in the inside, 1/2 on the outside. Then I added larger circles of Tenacious Tape over the Dyneema tape circles and sewed on my stake loops of nylon grosgrain tape. To those loops I’ve added elastic women’s “hair circles” with a girth hitch. The stakes will go into these elastic loops giving tension on the fly hem and absorbing some shock in high winds. So I’ve done my due diligence in reinforcing my loop attachment points and I think they will hold up well.

Why add fly hem stake loops? Because staked down flys are much less prone to noisily flap and flutter in high winds and less likely to wear other strain points. I really dislike the sound of flapping flys on a windy all-night storm.

[Niko Z.]

@Jon Solomon

How exactly do you get the Wind Bivy taught inside an octogon mid?In the picture you posted earlier it appears like you have bungee ropes going back to the fly apex? How do you get the ridge line of the Wind Bivy taught?
Cheers,
Niko Z.

[Jon Solomon]

Niko: As you anticipated, I just attach the bungee cord from three points on the Wind Bivy (head, midsection, feet) to the apex, while staking out the four corners of the bivy with carbon pegs. The ridgeline of the bivy stays taut pretty much until the extremity of the foot area. The head area on the wind bivy is formed by a triangle of three zippers and that works perfectly. Overall it’s not a totally perfect combo but is the next best thing to a custom design to match the octagon. Plus the Wind Bivy is very light. Last summer when I was using the MH 2P, I was just using a single offset pole, so the Wind Bivy was off to one side of the octagon. With a DPTE type setup, the bivy could be place directly in the middle of the octagon, the sweet spot rectangular area with the most room. This will undoubtedly further improve the pitch of the bivy. Sometimes I put a pack or a stick on the inside of the Bivy at the foot end to keep the ridgeline off my sleeping quilt.

Was it you who bought the updated version from Xavier?

[Niko Z.]

Thank you for the information Jon. I have never got around to trying to fit a Wind Bivy in my octogon mid. I have a 3F UL Lanshan 1 inner that sort of fits in the octogon set up with DPTE, though not fully tensioned. I will play with the Wind Bivy tomorrow to see how that works.

Was it you who bought the updated version from Xavier?

I wish! By the time I clicked on the link it was already gone. Do keep us updated how your tent performs in the field and any further ideas for refinement you might have. I was wondering whether a door that cuts diagonally instead of perpendicular might be used to shield the entrance from the rain more, similar to Sarek Sidewinder mid, but with the benefit of double layers.

Cheers,

Niko Z.

[Jon Solomon]

Niko, I hope that your experiment with the Wind Bivy goes well. What kind of octagonal mid do you have? Is it symmetrical or asymmetrical? DIY?

Since I generally only use the shelter solo, there was no need for me to think about protecting the entrance from the rain. The space inside is a palace for one and there is plenty of extra room to keep everything dry when exiting and entering. A diagonal cut would obviously not follow the ridgeline. This necessitates a bunch of design decisions that I see as negatives. The diagonal creates stress along the bias. With 30D silpoly instead of DCF that might not matter so much. It would also be more difficult to make an inner door in monolite and would inevitably necessitate a separate top vent somewhere, so more complex and more expensive to make. The top of the diagonal zip on the Sarek ends below the apex in a hooded top vent and anyway Sarek uses bonded panels at the top of the door. I have to say that I don’t like the way the DCF is stressed when fastening the door halfway open. Zippers are one of the first places on DCF tents where stretching and deformation becomes noticeable. And what is it with the pitch of the mids in the photos on Sarek’s website? Lots of loose, untaut panels and DCF stress. I see all of these changes as detracting from the design brief of the octagon, whose primary mission is to laugh at the wind.

[Niko Z.]

Thank you for the very informative analysis Jon. It makes perfect sense that you would keep the entrance simple and strong.

I have a cheapish Chinese 2P symmetrical elongated octogon mid (Aricxi brand). Bought it on AliExpress to see how I like the mid concept before purchasing something more upmarket. Well, I love the idea of octogon mid as I often camp out over 3,000 meters where it gets quite windy, yet given the tropical climate here four season tents don’t really make sense. Now I am looking to upgrade to something with better fabrics, but octogon mids are just not present on the higher end of the market (that I know of).

Perhaps you should start a production run!

[Jon Solomon]

Aricxi makes some cool stuff. If only they would use a high end fabric…!

Sounds like your use scenario is very similar to mine. Must be a cool place!

I was talking to Xavier today and he mentioned, in response to my suggestion, that he is considering making the Haitao House a part of his regular product line. To lower the cost, he might modify the design a little. By using horizontal panels near the apex, he could economize fabric costs. I opted for single continuous panels for the superior strength of having all the panels oriented against the bias all the way up from the perimeter to the apex. If horizontal panels were used at top, those panels would be oriented along the bias, hence much less rigid against the wind. But it would save on fabric costs. In addition, he might also remove the inner door panel in monolite. Those changes would bring the price down considerably. Maybe he would even eliminate the monolite skirts around the perimeter for further money and weight savings. Without a screen door, the mosquito protection of the monolite skirts doesn’t make a whole lot of sense (but including them would still allow for buttoning up the shelter in heavy bug conditions — albeit with compromised ventilation).

If he does bring this market, maybe you’ll be interested.

[Niko Z.]

I am actually very interested in the design as it stands now. I hope you will keep us updated with the field report and pictures. I think if Xavier takes away certain elements, the system does not work together anymore. At this segment of the market people are looking for the best design. The monolite skirt and double doors are great features 👍.

And yes, Papua and Indonesia are astounding, both above the ground and below surface.

(Sorry for the thread drift all! 🙏)

[Jon Solomon]

I agree totally.

Though I am interested in sourcing some unobtanium Korean 10D silnylon for a pared down version with no monolite to bring the weight down to close to 400g.

If you want the 30D silpoly version the way we designed it with Xavier, you could just get in touch with him now. I’m sure he’d be happy to do it. Lead times are currently about 3 months.

[Jon Solomon]

Indonesia and Papua!

[Author]

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