What's your winter tent?

ChrisC I wish that could be an option but this is a non-present giving family, so I’ll just wait until I get an inheritance or win the lottery or DIY and my silnylon sewing sucks so far. This is an area where I don’t want to go stupid light and a vestibule is a must for all the reasons above. In good weather I bitch about the weight of my old FairyDown Plateau, as soon as the weather turns nasty I’m glad I humped it

In hindsight I should have bought the extended vestibule version of this tent for all the reasons listed but I didn’t have the money at the time, in bad weather I think an extended vestibule is worth the pain of the extra weight

I know this is not ultra light. But I use a go light Shangri la 5. With a titanium cylinder stove, I put the stove jack in myself and the whole setup tent stove and 6ft pipe weigh less then 8 pounds

My son’s scout troop is heading to Camp Schiff in Long Island, NY this weekend. After tomorrow’s snow storm–possibly 12″ of snow–I’m sure it’ll be gorgeous winter wonderland.

If we were going, I’d probably bring the Hilleberg Jannu or possibly the Hilleberg Unna with an Exped Duo pad just to have a smaller volume of air to heat up at night.

Below is my Unna’s maiden voyage at Camp Schiff last year at a Leave No Trace training. I wanted to see how it handled the snow load. There was steady, heavy snow from about 9am until 4pm. I ended up losing a peg…so much for Leave No Trace!

The next morning by the lake….

Most of Wednesday’s snow melted away at Camp Schiff–pictured–so the boys didn’t get to hone their winter wilderness survival skills. They made the most of it by building a regular debris shelter – not pictured.

I’ve never tried the Zpacks Duplex in the snow, but I went on a winter trip up near the Mt. Baker ski area, and it dumped 2 feet of snow with 40 mph winds, and it held up amazingly well. I was very impressed.

The guy that used a Duplex with freestanding option posted a photo of his pitch over at the ZPacks website

ZPacks Duplex with freestanding option:

http://www.zpacks.com/images/shelter/duplex_flex/duplex-flex-snow-l.jpg

What would be the advantage of the freestanding option in this situation ?

I’m not sure. It wasn’t my shelter. I know that he did have the hiking poles in place which would been the main support for any snow loads. Perhaps he felt that the external poles would contribute additional support to deal with snow loading? After our tents were pitched, around 1.5 – 2 feet of snow fell by the next morning. Winds were 30 – 40 mph with higher gusts. Temperature got down to 13F by next morning. Looking at the photo, he very likely had already removed the snow from the Duplex. All of the tents were heavily covered with snow by morning.

For example,

I may be blind. I cannot see that the external poles contribute anything to the tent at all. To be sure, they could not substitute for the internal upright poles.

I can’ see any ventilation. Bet there was a lot of (frozen?) condensation inside the tent in the morning.

Cheers

From the ZPacks website page for the Duplex freestanding option:

http://www.zpacks.com/shelter/duplex-flex.shtml

The Flex tent upgrade is an add-on to our normal Duplex Tent that allows it to be pitched with freestanding tent poles. It can be set up with zero stakes in calm conditions, or with just 2 stakes if you want to use the vestibules. It is not necessary to stake the corners or side walls except in extreme weather.

Note that this tent is definitely not intended to be a four season shelter. The OP (Diane) was asking if others had used it in snow.

The tent fly is sewn to the DCF floor with bug netting in between. That is the primary means of ventilation available with this shelter. In three season weather, any of the 4 door panels can be opened as well.

To be The devils advocate….obviously….The external poles are tensioning the panels outward, preventing sagging into the useable interior space (Maybe not ideal but could be useful if experiencing the following conditions and you weren’t totally prepared for snow in quantities), also it looks like the tension created perpendicular to the panel, may reduce fabric from flapping around excessively, because many many pictures of duplexes we’ve seen pitched in more ideal conditions have a horrible crease in those large panels (incorrect guy-out angle) that would flap in any alpine wind.

This pole strategy replaces some need for the additional guy lines that could be secured to the adjacent tree on the left, and on the right using a guyline strung over a pole and then down to a deadman.  Sometimes it can be really hard to get a suitable anchor for additional guy lines if the snow is really fluffy, unconsolidated, or too shallow above frozen ground or bed rock.  I’ve found such conditions when my skiis were already used for 2 of the four corners of a mid, poles buried on the other two corners and none of the snow is holding these tight.

So is there a lighter solution if you have the black arts UL skills for all conditions, yes.  But if your caught out in conditions that slightly overwhelm your skill set or gear, these poles could tension the large panels when you might otherwise be unable too or expose yourself to inclement conditions as you struggle to create anchors for the 7th and 8th guy lines.

Just some thoughts on the potential benefits since some were totally incredulous about any benefit.

Edit to add:  Those panels aren’t even attached to the crossing poles, and another terrible angle on the guy lines.  That user got sooo close, but no cigar. Sorry, tried to help a zpack owner justify their new toy, but now I see Rogers point…

Looks like an awful lot of poles needed to get just two extra guy points. Not at all efficient imho. Now, if you had put the poles inside the tent, or in sleeves, then you might be making a difference.

Ah well, to each his own.

Cheers

The correct use of the external poles is illustrated in this photo from the ZPacks website. It is difficult to see in the earlier user’s photo, however he does actually have the crossed poles attached to the middle panel. It’s being done with that yellow cord (strong, but hard to see in the photo).

And this photo

That Z-Packs external pole setup looks like it would be of some help in high winds and snow loads.

And the guy lines that run from the inner (hiking) poles to the ground appear to be the most important guys. Maybe use double (tandem) stakes on them for high winds?

SEE MIKE’S COMMENT BELOW. I agree with Mike,  pole sleeves or several wide fabric loops would help with more stability for the “exoskeleton”.

looks like a few well placed sleeves would really extend the range of that shelter, probably not too much of a weight hit either?????

Thanks Patrick for the clarifying pictures showing the pole connection to the center of the large panels I assumed I saw in the prior pic, before noticing the panels aren’t connected to the crossing poles in the photo Franco commented on.

They are connected but hard to see :

after I had posted my first comment I took another look and realised why it seemed that the poles were not connected.

So now it makes more sense, they are somewhat similar to the way the Tarptent external poles work but with fewer connecting points.

This photo is another view with the attachment more visible along with some snow on top

Well I just bought a new winter tent for myself. It is a bit bigger than I actually initially wanted but I have been persuaded that the extra room is needed even for solo use. Extra room is something I myself advocate but this is a little bigger again.

Also I have accepted the weight hit and gone for a tent with an extended vestibule and extra pole

https://www.helsport.no/fjellheimen-x-trem-camp

I was offered a deal on the previous model with the short rear pole which is a bit tighter but also a good bit lighter. Anecdotally it is a bit stronger that the same design from Hilleberg but the expense of some extra weight. Some of the extra weight is from features like the valances that I think essential and that Hilleberg do not have.

The link is to a THREE-man tent. Is that what you bought?

Cheers

That Tarptent Scarp photo looks like the user forgot to zip the fly door shut.

And that photo is a perfect example of why I ran my Scarp 2 X-ing poles under my fly for better wind and  snow load resistance.  (See BPL’s “Winter Hiking” forum and “Winterizing My Scarp 2” thread for photos.)

Yes Roger. It is a tight 3-man tho, and while I will use it here I purchased for my trip really

I’m not going solo on my Arctic trip and we both use wide mats so we need the extra room and I agreed to supply the tent for the trip. My mate supplies the base camp hot tent with stove and bear fences depending on itinerary and changes of plans.

It may need double poling or upgrading to a larger diametre, with double poles it is I admit a kilo heavier than optimum but it is a reasonably strong unit.

I also bought partly on affordability, it was half price.

Ah, now if you bought it as a TWO-man tent, that is wildly different. (The half-price bit is, in my book, a minor point, especially at 2 am, -10 C and 80 kph.)

I have never double-poled any of my tunnels, nor have I ever thought I needed to. Fwiiw.

Cheers

I converted a big agnes yahmolite  (originally Shangri-la 5 ) into a hot tent. Very simple to install a stove jack, and bought a titanium cylinder stove with just a 6 ft. Titanium exhaust pipe, I  run it out sideways so it’s plenty far away, I use a spark arrester, anyway. I bought a 50 inch by 90 inch sil nylon bathtub floor, the whole setup only weighs about 8 pounds so it’s not in the ultra light catagory, but I  use the stove to cook on also. The tent has plenty of ventilation but you have to learn how to regulate the air on the stove or it will get so hot in there you have to open the door. It is still light enough to backpack pretty much anywhere you want to go, and if you have a partner you can split up the weight between you.. the tent is supposedly for 5 people, but with a stove 2 is reasonable because you have to stack wood inside. It also has plenty of tie outs  it’s pyramid shape makes it very efficient  shedding snow, and good in wind. I carry a silky saw very light weight but excellent saw, and a very light small ax to split wood easy  (batoning). Anyway if you like going out in any weather and being warm and comfortable this set up works great for me.   Cheers

I took my new tent away for a week-end. So far I like it.

The ventilation system seems to work although it is hard to actually tell with just a singleton in tent this large. Having set it up in an exposed position deliberately I think I can say that it is designed to handle wind very well but in Australias heavy wet snow there will be a need to wake up and move snow during a heavy snow fall, but it was purchased with a specific trip in mind where wind will be a bigger factor than wet snow.

I am still considering pole strength and wondering if upgrading from a DAC 9.6mm to the 10.25mm would be worthwhile for the larger centre pole rather than taking two of the 9.6mm and double poling. Helsport do supply both a repair piece and a full spare length so there is an assumption that poles do break. Unlike you Roger I have had poles break on a couple of tents over the decades, mainly due to snow load when I slept right though a storm until “SNAP”