What did I do wrong?-Gear Choices Critique

Under those circumstances, on a day hike, I’d have had a baselayer on the bottom, probably wool. I use waterproof mid hiking boots (mine are Keen) for situations where I know my feet are going to get wet; the waterproofing keeps my feet much warmer. Plus they’re not mesh like trail runners. They won’t keep my feet totally dry, but they’ll keep them warm.

For backpacking I always have that totally 100% dry layer for putting on in the tent. Always.

For backpacking I always have that totally 100% dry layer for putting on in the tent. Always.

Thanks. This will be part of my list. Didn’t realize how much my lower half would perspire in such a short climb.

Same.  In those condition my polypro Lifa bottoms do the trick. Polypro doesn’t hold water as readily as other base layers ime

Ime when fersossi pants do get wet, they hold a lot of water.  I don’t use them in colder conditions, they shine when it’s hot

I quickly soak from sweat in rain pants.  If I’m not using my poncho, I reach for my 3ful rain skirt.  You trade off wet lower legs but don’t suffer sweating out

Feet in those conditions: darn toughs, bread bag, wpb boot.  Take off bags when rain stops and feet have dried boots

Same.  In those condition my polypro Lifa bottoms do the trick. Polypro doesn’t hold water as readily as other base layers ime

Ime when fersossi pants do get wet, they hold a lot of water.  I don’t use them in colder conditions, they shine when it’s hot

I quickly soak from sweat in rain pants.  If I’m not using my poncho, I reach for my 3ful rain skirt.  You trade off wet lower legs but don’t suffer sweating out

Ferossi are like a sponge. Maybe I was getting some wicking from the bottom as well which contributed.  The rain pants did well with keeping the slush off my shins, in a skirt that would be cold.

I did a 100 deg 99% humidity day hike in the ferossis and they loaded with sweat as expected but the amount of water was nuts and they took forever to dry

In normal conditions they’re hydrophobic and dry fast as little water is absorbed even in a light mist

I hike down to -20c in pants and lifas without cold lower legs including post holing  but ymmv

I never had issues with them in dryer conditions-I’d sweat and they would dry pretty fast- but the DWR must be gone from mine as the first brush up on a damp plant they soaked it up pretty good.

Would there be a more durable version of the bread bag? I have tried those, gallon ziplocks and some grocery bags but they all split at the seams at some point.

I hear good things about these but haven’t tried them (yet): Randy Sun Waterproof Ski socks

Would there be a more durable version of the bread bag?

Trash compactor (or Odor-No) bags, using a heat sealer to shape them:

Timmermade DCF Water-Crossing socks:

https://www.facebook.com/timmermadegear/posts/11oz-dcf-water-crossing-socks-vapor-barrier-liner-socks-knee-high-with-top-shock/559838439280063/

Trash compactor (or Odor-No) bags, using a heat sealer to shape them:

Interesting. I may give these a shot. I fear I would blow out the dcf liners.

I have found that putting my insoles INSIDE OF the socks reduces some of the stress on them. However, it also makes it slightly harder to put on my shoes. Tradeoffs.

I know that this isn’t a popular choice, but I really like mid-high lightweight gore-tex boots. My feet rarely get wet at all, and even if some water gets in, my feet are never cold. I like being able to wade right through shallow crossings without trying to balance on slippery logs or rocks. And the extra height protects my ankles during frequent off-trail bushwhacking. In contrast, when I have tried to backpack in trailrunners, my feet are always guaranteed to be wet from wet grass, slight rain or shallow crossings, and my shins and ankles take a beating.

“I know that this isn’t a popular choice, but I really like mid-high lightweight gore-tex boots.”

Me too, for all the reasons that you state. Add a pair of lightweight WP gaiters and you’re in business.  I used to go out in early season into the backcountry in yosemite. there were a ton of ankle to calf deep crossings in that season. and then of course snow. My feet would stay dry through it all. Yes, sometimes I’d have to remove my boots to wade through a stretch of deeper water. To me, having dry feet was worth the inconvenience. My feet blister when wet.

For many, wearing trail runners and having wet feet for an entire trip isn’t an issue. In snow…?? No thanks.

I ordered a pair of Kakotat Launch Socks. While they get great reviews for kayaking, they may prove to be a bit baggy for our purposes. No baggier than a bread bag. Ryan mentions them here.

Kakotat

I like the idea of heat sealing a plastic bag. I use a seal-a-meal for other projects, though it may be hard to position. The plastic rolls used for the S-a-M are basically a long plastic tube. I could see making a pair of plastic gators. In tall wet grass. Isn’t that the reason for wearing knickers? I mean besides looking cool on the golf course.

I have a food saver sealer. Never thought about using it to make custom liners.

It can be a little tricky trying to get the angles. You may want a softer plastic like one of Bill’s suggestions. I’ve successfully resized Ziplocks in mine without making a mess.

Same here.  Bag sealer on ziplok bags. Wait a moment for plastic to cool before you remove it.

Kokatat launch socks. 159 grams. 5.6 oz.

Taped seams. Turned them inside out and filled with water. No leaks or wet spots.

Size medium. 9-11 U.S.  Slightly baggy inside shoe with a size 9 foot.

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In that situation, I probably would have gone with something like the following:

1. The top. Mesh long sleeve top. A breathable, quick drying, wicking, lightweight, low odor baselayer short sleeve top over the long sleeve mesh baselayer (many things here could work, like OR Echo), and then a Terramar polypropylene long sleeve baselayer over that (unlike other PP baselayers, this one doesn’t wick, but sheds, and doesn’t hold much water).

Over that, I would wear a poncho with a WPB front insert (from top of chest to near groin).

2. For bottoms, I would wear mesh baselayer with nylon shorts with EPIC fabric connected to them for the pant legs.

3 Feet: Could go one of two ways.  Thin alpaca-synthetic blend socks with WPB socks over same, and thin PP socks over that with trail runner type shoes.

Or, thin alpaca-synthetic blend socks, with thin PP socks over, and thicker PP socks over that, and a thin, lightweight, tightly woven/wind and water resistant DWR treated polyester fabric over sock over these, and with slightly over sized hiking sandals.  Why, everything in this system dries super fast, even though your feet will get wet. You can wring and/or swing out the water in the PP socks. Not much material in the hiking sandal to dry to begin with. That’s the main idea, to get everything dry as fast as possible, while still having breathability.
I don’t find encasing my feet in completely non breathable material to be a tenable solution tbh.  Might be ok in very, very cold and very dry conditions (vapor barrier and preventing moisture ingress into thermal layers), but not humid and very wet conditions.

(I would have a backup, dry pair of the thin alpaca-synthetic socks, because these don’t dry as quick as the other layers).

This thread took a bit of a twist. I plan on trying the socks in cold weather and to help keep the snow out of my shoes. Mostly though, I’ll use them for their intended purpose. To replace my boot waders.

Keen makes a neoprene lined water sandal with an enclosed toe that works well. Chaco used to have a light neoprene water shoe with a vibram sole. Basically a fully enclosed sandal. Kept the sand out. Somehow I felt they kept my feet cooler on desert hikes.  I’ve been using bison wool/synthetic blend that seems to dry, or feel dry, pretty quickly. They work well, but tend to wear fast. I haven’t tried alpaca.`

I don’t know why there isn’t more love for Keens. While they’re not the lightest, they’re indestructible. I must drag my feet, I prefer the closed toe for keeping sand and snow out. Keens are the only ones I’ve found.

Got some Sealskinz socks and tried them out twice this last week. Sealskinz over Darn Tough socks. Not harsh conditions but 30f, wet slush, low to moderate output in non-waterproof boots-Topo Trailventure. Wow, I was shocked at 1) how warm my feet stayed 2) How well they breathed. My socks at the end were about as damp-not very-as if I hadn’t had the waterproof sock over them.  Second trip-32F, 1-3′ of compacted to fluffy snow-top of boot was constantly covered- was higher output-climbing a few thousand feet. My feet were a bit too warm for what I was used to but surprisingly, only slightly damp on the bottom. Definitely will be taking these along on winter hikes and was impressed at how well they allowed moisture to escape.

Another item I tested was the Patagonia R1 Air. I had not taken it out as I always thought it was too heavy and didn’t see a place for it in my kit. On a low output, high 20’s hike with the Mountain Hardware Kor Airshell over, I was shockingly warm with zero sweat. I suspect that combo could go down to the low teens.

As for the poncho-I wouldn’t take that in winter as wind driven rain/sleet/snow would find it’s way into the openings-arms, bottom, etc.  I really liked the thicker material of the 3L rain jacket to insulate from cold water/snow/sleet hitting the material. On my Silpoly UL jacket I could feel that easily through the thin material.

sealskinz socks have a membrane inside an inner and outer layer?  Like goretex?

sealskinz socks have a membrane inside an inner and outer layer?  Like goretex?

They don’t go into much detail about the Aquasealz™ membrane but I was impressed in my very limited testing.

https://www.sealskinz.com/blogs/news/the-innovative-acquasealz-technology-of-sealskinz

sealskinz socks have a membrane inside an inner and outer layer? Like goretex?

Yes. I like SealSkinz. I got the All-Weather variant: Polypropylene and nylon outer layer, merino/acrylic/polyester/nylon blend inner layer. The membrane is slightly stretchy, which works well for socks. They are great for damp and cool/cold weather.

That said, the Tyvek or plastic over-socks work the best for full immersion.

Mine are what SealSkinz calls “mid-weight”. They are the heaviest socks I wear. They don’t dry as fast as lightweight synthetic socks, of course, but they are not water sponges like the GoreWear socks.

Polypropylene liners dry almost instantly, so I wear those in warm weather.

(My experience with GoreWear Shield socks (Gore-Tex) was that they were junk — soaked up water, wet through with little resistance, then dried slowly.)

It is true that ponchos can get water ingress, especially in the arm holes and generally that your arms tend to get wet. With that said, and I should have mentioned it in my last post, but I always have a water resistant wind jacket on me, and if its colder, I wear it under the poncho with it unzipped. Via a combo of the windjacket plus the Terramar polypropylene baselayer under it (repels water) over a mesh baselayer, my skin doesn’t actually get wet most of the time, and when it does a little, it dries really fast. (This is akin to the Paramo concepts/systems, except lighter and less hot).

You’re going to get wet no matter what, whether it is from rain or perspiration.  That is not the issue so much.  The real issue is, “how long does it take to dry” and are you relatively comfortable meanwhile?  The system I outlined is excellent at drying very fast and keeping you comfortable meanwhile.  (Provided the DWR is working well on the windjacket).

I mean, has anyone yet figured out a way to stay completely dry during moderate to high exertion while outside in rain, sleet, etc for a long while (whether it is from rain/sleet etc and/or perspiration)?  I would love to learn their high secrets.

This:  “has anyone yet figured out a way to stay completely dry during moderate to high exertion while outside in rain, sleet, etc for a long while (whether it is from rain/sleet etc and/or perspiration)”

No, they haven’t. They claim to, but I am skeptical. I sweat going up a flight of stairs and I’m not a terribly sweaty person. Maybe they’re alien lizard people.