Voile Objective BC ski

I did try T3s once – hiring. After 2 hours I had to take them off: the pressure and rubbing on the front of my shins from the boot tongue was horrendous. I could not even touch my shins with my fingers without pain. Agony.

Frankly, I cannot imagine anyone covering any distance of XC on rolling terrain in these boots – or by extension in any Darth Vader types of boots. There was just no ankle flex at all. Downhill, sure, but not kick and glide (which NEEDS ankle flex).

Cheers

The boots are indeed the real challenge. No manufacturer really focuses on the kind of gear I really want – and why should they, as the market is infinitesimal?. What I want is a really light, totally waterproof. double boot that is stiff enough to handle a steep descent from the high pass and yet flexible enough to be good for  the long gentle ascent up the valley that leads to the pass. Currently I have the lightest of the plastic 3-pin boots (Garmont Excursion, a bit lighter and more flexible than the T-3’s that tortured Roger, and with thermo molded liners that make them really fit), but I wish for something in between them and the beefiest of the NNN-BC boots – and with a removable liner for week-long snow camping. But such a beast does not exist. I could go to the lighter AT boots, and many folks do, but I can’t bring myself to pay the full retail ($800 and up, and THEN I have to get new bindings to go with them) and have been unable to find any used in my size. Currently I am working on modifying my Garmonts – taking off the cuff, moving a buckle, and adding an integral gaiter. I’m getting the weight down, but more importantly I’ll get better range of motion in the ankle. Will I lose too much downhill control? That remains to be seen, but I have seen online reports of similar mods that are promising.

All the NNN-BC boots I have had my hands on do not have a stiff enough sole to provide the control I need to get down off a 12,000 foot pass in the SIerra – though they’d be lovely on the cruise up the valley, I’m sure. And I worry about how to keep them dry for a week or 10 days in wet spring snow – I never had any luck with that back in the leather days, My well-sealed boots would be dry for two days max and then wet the rest of the trip, no way I could dry them out. Plastic boots with closed cell foam thermo-liners really spoil you there. Warm and dry no matter how wet the snow or how long the trip.

Edit to add: I agree with Ross that I’d rather have a beefy boot on a skinnier ski than vice versa, and that is particularly true when it comes to wider skis. Trying to get a wider ski up on edge with a too-flexible boot is a losing proposition. Of course, some skilled practitioners can ski anything, anywhere, anytime, on any kind of gear. But I am a very long way from being in that category, and need all the help I can get.

I use light AT boots (Scarpa Alien). My main complain with those is the lack of waterproofness. Even with the optional shrouds, I get soaked pretty quickly. However, the new Scarpa RS looks like a huge improvement (see 1:10):

I got my Scarpa Alien’s used for $300.

I also use AT bindings. Dynafit Speed Superlite toe piece but a Plum heel so I have a flat position. You can mix and match from Skimo.co.

@Paul — Yeah, I hear you. My fantasy boot would be a cross country type boot that fit into an A. T. binding, with a removable plastic outer shell. Going uphill and on gentle descents, I would just use the cross country ski boots. But once I hit a steep hill, I would attach the plastic over my feet, clamp them down, and be just fine. Like you said, there just isn’t the market for that. As it is, the Telemark market is dwindling every year. Folks are basically moving towards what Dan and Roger use (with a lot more like Dan). Of course there are probably just enough people who just like making Telemark turns to keep folks making them.

Here’s another look at the Scarpa RS boot. You’ve basically got a plastic lower boot with a soft top and a removeable liner (not shown), and then there is a plastic ankle part that pivots freely in walk mode – you can hardly tell it’s there – but locks into place for support on the descent. To me it looks perfect other than the $870 price tag, but of course I am actually looking to make a few turns and perhaps navigate some tough terrain, rather than taking XC style skiing off the nordic track. I suppose you’d want telemark style flexibility in the sole if you were doing extensive kick-glide ‘ing.

There are some new Alien RS boots on sale for a bit under $500 USD. Hmm….anyone want to buy my used regular Alien’s for $150 USD? Size 27.0.

Dan – you lucky dog to fit a 27.0. Sems like darn near every pair of used rando race type boots is a 27.0. I am unfortunate enough to wear a 29.5 and I can find almost nothing. What i covet is a pair of the old Scarpa F1 race, with the bellows, but despite keeping my eyes out for a couple years I have yet to see a used pair in my size. Closest I have come is a new old stock pair at a czech dealer for I  think 300 euro plus god knows how much shipping.

We have found that the NNN-BC boots, wholly synthetic, don’t really get very wet, so that over a week in the mountains they are still quite OK.

The control over the skis with NNN-BC may not be as good as with the Darth Vader class of boots, but on XC over rolling terrain (lots of kick and glide) they are fine. We just have to be a bit more precise with our Telemark turns: get the weight just right. Well, good practice, especially with winter packs on.

Cheers

“Dan – you lucky dog to fit a 27.0”
Well part of the problem is that I don’t really fit a 27.0. I just thought I did when I bought them online. The ease at which water enters is a downside with the regular Alien’s, but the main issue with mine is that they are a size too small. I have to wear thin hiking socks in them and even then my feet are pretty squished.

Roger I think your problem was the T-3 boot It was simply awful to wear, neither fish nor fowl but absolutely foul to ski in. I went from a heavy leather Scarpa touring boot to plastic and I’ve never looked back. Also liners/inner boots are so much better with every iteration and generational change. but even an old and set in his ways bloke like me would change to a tech boot and binding system if I could afford it.

Also I know of a feller who can Telemark in his tech boots system, although it must place a lot of force on those two pins with his heel free

I am not sure about that ‘lots of force’ idea. It seems to me that if you get your legs in the right positions in a Telemark turn, just about all the force is down ONTO the skis. I may be wrong of course.

Cheers

Did you see the latest additions to Fischer’s S-Bound Crown/Skis?:
https://www.fischersports.com/ch_de/s-bound-112-crown/skin-335
The official page isnt to informative, weight for the 179cm seems to be 2690 g./pair, for the 98er version 2490g.
Could be a great option for UL BC Skiing, as the specialised skins look really lightweight.

Edit: And I found the Rosignol Positrack 110 or even 125 on the net, any opinions or even experiences on this?:
https://www.rossignol.com/at/rossignol-bc-125-skis-nordic-rhewf22-000-2018-2019.html

A big difference between the Objective BC and most of these other skis (S-Bound, Rossi Positrack, Karhu’s) is the amount of camber. The Objective’s have only a bit of camber like an alpine ski whereas these other models have tons of camber like an XC ski. Which is better depends on what you’re after. Tons of camber is good for kick/glide skiing, but not so good for making turns. Lots of camber is a disaster when you’re skiing on breakable crust.

Yeah, I hear you. I fund even some more “hybrid” skis like the ones above, but all of them seem to come out of an nordic bc approach. The Objective BC seesm to be the only one coming from an alpine background. Its just so crazy looking for an US ski as I am in Austria, Europe. You guys would love the used market here :)

A modular shoe would be really cool, has anyone used a touring-skiboot inner with an outer of a winter boot (Sorel f.e.), or a Neos overshoe?

Edit: Question: Is the tip of the Objective fitted for Dynafit skins attachement?

I wouldn’t go as far as saying that all but Voile come from a Nordic approach. The Rossignol BC 125 (at least the pair I owned) doesn’t have a lot of camber. I would say the big innovation for Viole is that the ski has rocker. They weren’t the first to come out with a big backcountry ski with fish scales, but they were the first to add rocker.

I’ve noticed that Rossignol has added that, and Fischer talks about “Nordic rocker”. If the Viole skis perform better downhill I don’t think it is because of a different philosophy, it is probably just because it is a higher end ski. Rossignol sells the “Smash” for $400, and the Super 7 HD for twice as much. My guess is that the Super 7 skis better (for some conditions and some skiers).

Amy skins that fit out of the bag nicely on the Objective BC, what do you guys use?

Wish my old Atomic TM22 skis were that light. But at my age I’ll not be getting new backcountry skis.

Plus I have a nice pair of touring skis, Asnes Combi Combt Norwegian Army skis (yep, all white) with full metal edges.

I use Scarpa T3 boots with these skis for control skiing in the mountains and Vasque heavy leather boots for the Asnes skis on rolling terrain.

Both sets of skis have Voile release bindings with the old Besser-type release mechanism. As a former Nordic and alpine ski patroller I don’t want to see myself in the winter backcountry with a fracture.

Max – while I don’t own objectives (yet, anyway), i do know that voile makes skins specifically for them with a tip attachment designed for that notch. Do not know if the dynafit skins fit the voile notch. If a shop had both skis in hand they could measure both notches for you, might be an idea.

Found this on the Skimo.co website:

“Hello, do you think the Dynafit rubber tip will fit another brand of ski like the Voile Objective ? It seems they have a deeper and narrower slot…
Thanks ! 4/3/2017

Answer from  jbo

Hi Jules, the tip is a little fat for the Voile tip when unstretched, but with a little tension it slides in just fine. That said, cord systems seem to slot in a little easier.”

So, can be done, if a little snug. Probably a few licks with a file on the sides of the slot would get a perfect fit.