Ursack failure

[Todd T]

What Chris R said.  Don’t put steak seasoning on anything you don’t want a bear treating like steak.

[AK Granola]

Why do so many people not follow the simple directions that come with their bear spray? Or their Ursacks for that matter? Just follow the directions. No, you don’t use bear spray like insect repellant. It doesn’t get sprayed unless the bear charges you. Seems so obvious. And it’s written on the can.

There was a post on a FB hiking group about a lady who accidentally discharged her bear spray and got a face full. She wasn’t misusing it, just made a mistake. 12 hours later, she was able to write about it. Ouch.

[bradmacmt]

pepper sprayed around the tent

You did what??!!

Bears love pepper spray, and will slurp the stuff up. They just don’t like it in atomized form in their face.

[Rex Sanders]

Several years ago a USGS researcher recorded Alaskan brown bears rolling around on a beach that had been sprayed with “bear repellent”. The pre-YouTube video circulated for a while, but I can’t find it now.

“It’s a 500-pound cat with a ball of catnip,” Smith said.

…

“We’ve had some parents spray it on their children because it says ‘bear repellent,’ ” Johnson said. The company [Counter Assault] has begun changing the wording on its packaging to “bear deterrent” instead of repellent.

https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1998-feb-15-mn-19305-story.html

— Rex

[Sam Farrington]

Re: You did what??!!

So the mystery is finally solved. It wasn’t the blueberry Kool Aid at all. It was the pepper spray. But wait. The spray was not used until sometime after after the candle lantern and banging pans. So maybe it was both. BTW, it was not “bear spray” with directions. It was a much smaller can of capsicum spray for bicycle riders to use on attacking dogs. We must let hunters know about using a mix of blueberry juice and capsicum spray as bear bait.

Some years ago, I began hiking with dogs, and have not been bothered by bears since. The spray is still sold in bicycle shops, if you want to use it to attract bears to pose for photos. But note that the spray was not carried with bears in mind. It was carried to repel hostile two-legged animals. Thanks for the tips.

[BlackHatGuy]

Of course, bear canisters have their issues as well….

[John S.]

I thought in the early 2000’s that Ursack recommended tying around the tree trunk and then changed later to hanging like a typical food bag is hung. Need to find out.

[Tom K]

“Maybe Skurka was right about sleeping with food.”

He’s not the only one, at least in areas where the bears aren’t habituated.  Odor management is the key, IMO/IME.  Even in areas with habituated bears odor management will reduce your chances of close encounters of the unpleasant kind, particularly if others nearby are careless.

[John S.]

Circa 2003

“USE AND CARE OF URSACK

DO
Cinch the cord lock tight so that there is no opening at the top of the bag. If food is visible, you have packed too much in. If you can see it, a bear can get it.
Tie URSACK up a tree trunk or to a strong branch so that it can’t be crushed or stolen. Bears have been known to chew through 5 inch branches to get to food.
Tie URSACK using a figure 8 knot, so that it can be untied easily. If you need help, try this animated description of a figure 8 knot.
Keep any food item that could leak in a plastic bag inside URSACK. Even though a bear may not be able to penetrate URSACK, he may be able to crush the contents. If URSACK does get crushed, there won’t be a “food reward” that can be licked from the outside.

DO NOT
Do not put a large hard-sided object like a cook pot into your Ursack. It has the opposite of the intended effect. It actually provides purchase to the bear and allows him to more easily tear the bag.
Do not keep URSACK in camp. URSACK must be secured to a fixed object that is a safe distance from your camp site.
Do not keep URSACK in or near your sleeping bag or tent.
Do not keep URSACK in the sun. Aramid fiber deteriorates with exposure to UV rays.”

[Tom K]

“Use the liner”

A resounding plus one to that.  It’s the only practical way to use an Ursack, IMO.  Otherwise, even if the bear doesn’t succeed in penetrating the Ursack, your food will be inedible for all practical purposes.

 

[John S.]

The entire history of ursack fabrics over the years (didn’t military take all of one material at one point?), directions to use over the years, failures and the owners litigious-ness would be an interesting read.

[Tom K]

“Every one I have used has developed holes and tears  from freeze dried food packaging and ultimately had the ziplock closure fail.”

Repackage your food to avoid sharp edges and double bag with Nylofume bags, or even triple bag.  They only weigh ~1/2 oz. each.  Also it helps to use low odor foods and even go cold food to reduce cooking odors.  The experiments with odor sniffing dogs were in a highly controlled environment where the dogs were put in close proximity to the bagged food.  In the backcountry, the trick is to reduce the odors escaping to such a low level that they don’t disperse far enough in detectable quantities to bring a bear to your camp, especially when they have to overcome their natural fear of humans and the odors they produce.  Been doing it for years and never had an incident.  YMMV, as always, but worth thinking about?

[Mike M]

Nothing to do with Ursacks, but in grizzly country we’ve gotten in the habit of eating supper on the trail (almost always with a gorgeous view!).  It’s advantageous as we tend to hike to close to dark (sometimes after)- gives us a much needed sit down rest, a big calorie dump and a mental boost.  The last thing you want when weary is to cook supper, when you have other chores that need taken care of.  Also eating a big meal right before you go to sleep sucks.

AND there is no odor of cooking anywhere near camp, which in grizzly country might be the only reason you need :)

[Pedestrian]

+1 to cooking and eating on the trail for all the above reasons, whether in grizzly country or not.

 

[jscott]

Regarding bear canister failure referenced by Idester: I like to think my Bearikade offers a better resistance to the kind of damage shown in the linked video.

–it’s metal, not plastic

–there’s no lip or anything for the bear to get a purchase on with claws or teeth

that said….

[Greg Mihalik]

^^^

Back in 2012 I posted pictures of a Bearikade absolutely shredded by a bear at the Grizzly Center in Montana.  (apparently BPL migrations have resulted in “page not found”).

So ….  ain’t nothing “bear-proof”.

[Pedestrian]

“ain’t nothing “bear-proof”.”

The more one pays for a good, the more one tends to believe it’s infallible/perfect/etc. A form of confirmation bias.

 

[jscott]

“A form of confirmation bias.”

Well, no. I’ve spent hundreds of nights out in areas of known bear concentration and never ever lost any food. Au contraire, I’m certain that bears know they can’t get into my canister and simply move on. On several occasions I’ve spoken with people hiking out who lost their food to bears in the same area I proceeded to camp in. I had no issues.

So, no. That’s long experience, not confirmation bias. Which can be tossed back at those making the claim as well. Annoying, isn’t it?

park rangers require canisters in areas of high traffic and  bear concentration. Canisters have reduced bear incidents significantly. that’s not confirmation bias. Far fewer bears are dying now due to eating packaging etc.

so…since there’s been an incident of canister failure, what? Bring nothing? again, canisters are the gold standard. Smug dismissivness costs bears their life.

 

[Todd T]

jscott, I think you’re responding to something different from what @pedestrian said.

[Rex Sanders]

Extracts from: https://www.wild-ideas.net/about-wild-ideas/bearikade-faqs/

What is the Bearikade made from?

The patented Bearikade canisters principally consist of 6061 T-6 aluminum hatch, locking collar, and end fittings securely bonded to a proprietary composite carbon-fiber cylinder with high strength epoxy.

“Composite”, “epoxy” = carbon-fiber reinforced plastic body, similar to fiberglass.

Has the Bearikade been tested with bears?

… The Bearikade has been in field service all over North America since 1998.  No food has ever been lost to a wild animal from a properly locked Bearikade.

If you believe the maker, the Bearikade is a very safe way to store food.

But nothing’s perfect, and there’s some great suggestions here and in the FAQ on reducing bear-human conflicts. Even if the bear never gets in, I’ll sleep much better not listening to a bruin maul my canister. And I probably won’t need to search for the bear can in the morning.

— Rex

[Pedestrian]

“jscott, I think you’re responding to something different from what @pedestrian said.”

@texasbb, thanks for pointing that out.

[jscott]

well, Pedestrian seemed to imply I was a glassy eyed consumer smitten with a piece of junk. I simply stated my experience with the Bearikade over hundreds of nights in bear country.

and then threw in some additional smack of my own. Guilty.

Still waiting to hear the better alternative…

 

p.s. for the record, I never claimed that canisters are “perfect and infallible”.

 

p.p.s I’ll stipulate that covid, current and new terrible fires, weeks of smoke in the air and a heat wave that has me cooped up have made me irritable and liable to take offense where none was meant.

[Greg Mihalik]

Another perspective, from    Andrew Skurka–

“Recently, I received a spreadsheet that documented 199 food-related bear incidents with backpackers in Yosemite National Park between July 2012 and July 2017.”

“From what I can gather, when used properly there were no reported cases of broken Bearikades or the Ur$ack Maj0r (formerly S.29 AllWhite), and only one BearVault. The Garcia canister failed most often, but you’d expect that since they are the most common rental canister.”

It seems that the biggest issue with canisters is a poor location that allows Mr.Bear to roll the canister away from camp,  typically into a creek or over a cliff.

[Sam Farrington]

Idester: re “Sam, I assume you’re talking about these?”

Yes, that’s them. Sorry for the delayed response.

[Murali C]

I guess it all boils down to luck with respect to bears getting into your Ursack? I did the CT this year and luckily didn’t have any issues with the Ursack.

Maybe some redundancy is needed. Carry two Ursacks and keep them at opposite ends. Or a small bear canister that can hold 2 days food and the rest in an Ursack?

I  like to avoid campsites where there are lots of people camped as you are dependent on their behaviours – like eating inside the tent or not eating a little away from the campsite etc.

Instead of just carrying two Opsacks and filling them completely, this time around I carried 4 Opsacks (actually two opsacks and two smelly proof bags from Gossamer gear). I never filled them completely – maybe 30 to 40% full. I would then try to seal them as best as possible and then roll it 5 or 6 times like a dry bag and then place it inside the Ursack with the weight of the food holding the rolled down portion in place.  Also most of my food is inside some form of ziplock which is also sealed. I try to make sure that I do not touch my food as well with my bare hands. For example, I will have 1 oz of almonds in a 2 oz ziplock kind of bag. When I eat, I will pour contents into my mouth directly from the ziplock bag. That said, I do touch food accidentally once in a while – like when the Green Belly lunch meals start disintegrating. Trying not to touch food with your hands/fingers will make sure that opsack exterior is not smelly.

There were 4 to 5 times we had to keep food in the vestibule as there were no trees nearby.

I did encounter some folks who ate inside their tents. Also on the PCT, none of the thru hikers I encountered used a opsack – they all ate inside their tents and either slept with the food or kept it in the vestibule.

So, I think it comes down to luck. Most of the bears avoid humans. I wonder if keeping it inside the tent provides some deterrence to the bear  – like it doesn’t want to deal with smelly scary humans and their tents. Some bears are crazy and will enter the tent….I will never keep the food inside the tent or eat inside the tent. Though it is tempting as you never want to lose your food on the first day into a 5 or 6 day resupply and there is no one around to give you food. Better to fight for the food?

I usually carry a bear bell – a loud one. I usually place it with the Ursack so that I can hear the bell if the bear is trying to get into my bag. The Op in the reddit posting could have gotten out of the tent and shined some light and blew the whistle loudly and made a racket to try and scare the bear away with the hiking poles….though I don’t know how I will behave given that scenario:-)

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