Training with a loaded pack – good or bad?

I am 46 also. Strength training should be a part of your every day life, regardless if you want to keep hiking or not. You dont have to be a body builder. I want to be able to keep hiking long miles and whitewater kayaking well beyond where I am now.. so I would suggest you keep walking with a loaded pack and start doing some Strength and conditioning training as a life style! Even 20 – 30 minutes a day, 4 or 5 days a week. You can have results or excuses.. NOT BOTH!!

Any cartilage wear should be checked out by medical staff, but one thing to think about is foot soldiers (“infantry”) staying in that job often have cartilage problems later in life.   It can be individualistic though. Spoke with one 25 yo  fixed gear cyclist whose past hill riding gave him the knees of a 40 year according to his doc. Wear is a thing and the basic cause of osteoarthritis.

I’d at least take a look at the signs of osteoarthritis from a valid medical source and whether you feel they apply to you.  If concerned medical imaging and consultation would be best though

I’ve been walking 3-4 miles around town with a 40 pound pack about once a week for the past few months. I used to train with a 25 pound pack, but decided to see if I could do the firefighter test (3 miles over flat ground in 45 minutes with 45 pounds). I’m not sure I’ll be able to make that. Even with 40 pounds I’m not getting faster than a 17 minute mile and that’s only the first mile. Pluswalking on sidewalks does hurt my joints way more than walking on a trail, so I’m thinking of going back to the lighter weight.

so I’m thinking of going back to the lighter weight.
That would be common sense over ideology.

Cheers

Maybe. I’m going to give it a couple more months unless the pain gets worse. Everything hurts at least some of the time and I could tell from my blood pressure that unladen walking isn’t enough exercise.

The opportunity to strengthen:

• core
• glutes
• hams
• quads
• calves

without putting strain on the joints (back, hips, knees, ankles, foot bones) – which reduces cartilage and increases arthritic response – that’s a really good thing.

Yes to weight training without walking. It changes what I’m able to do in the Wild with a pack, heavy or light.

Three phases to consider:

1. Adaptation – get used to regular weight training exercises, to the point where your body doesn’t freak out when you do them. I do situps, planks, hitler dogs, pullups, kettle bell lifts, squats, deadlifts, box steps, calf raises, bench and military presses.
2. Max Strength – increase the weight, reduce the reps.
3. Muscular Endurance – increase the reps and reduce the weight but stay below your aerobic threshold.

I go through #1, #2, and #3 in an annual cycle – about 8-12 weeks of #1, 4-6 weeks of #2, 4-6 weeks of #3. That’s 16-24 weeks of training followed by 2 weeks of winding down (“tapering”) before what I would consider a “peak” trek (something hard).

I run through an aerobic fitness routine that’s similar in intensity levels and objectives. But in most situations, my aerobic training is without a pack. (I rarely train with a pack heavier than 20 pounds, I vary the steepness of the terrain and my speed instead).

Of course, this is a very simplistic distillation of what to do. Sleep, stress management, diet, recovery and rest – these all play a vital role as well in your overall fitness.

* Disclaimer: I’m 51 y.o., not an athlete, have arthritis in my fingers (rock climbing), toes (hiking with heavy packs), back injury (skateboarding), but can still carry a 50 lb pack OK and spend a few weeks in the wild without resupply or drama.

What the heck is a hitler dog?! I think I’ll try to forget that I just looked that up.

I’m in my late 50s and have never trained with an overloaded pack, but i do sometimes put a fair bit of weight in my day pack, both for the exercise and to stay accustomed to it. But with a lower pack weight for backpacking, and a decent pack, I no longer find it to be all that uncomfortable anyway.

I’m learning how important proper weight training is at my age though, for forestalling all kinds of health problems later.

Karen – check out “Scott’s Killer Core Routine” in Training for the New Alpinism. That’s my base training core workout, and the hitler dog exercise is part of that. It’s an exercise that emphasizes core stability to rotate full motion in the hips. One of my favorites.

Train with about 60% of your full expedition weight. That way your musculoskeletal system is getting the resistance it needs to be ready for the 50 lb loads, yet you aren’t wearing out your cartilage, knees and ankles by doing brutal year round slogs that the human body isn’t really designed to handle on a continuous basis.

To the original question:  I think training with a heavy pack does some good if your route has vertical gain.  If you’re hiking a flat loop, I doubt you gain enough to overbalance the joint damage.  I’ve been working out with a 50-lb pack, going up and down the little 800-ft “mountain” outside town, for almost 15 years.  The weight definitely helps me be ready for real hiking in real mountains with a real pack.  I’m 61.

Interesting question which I have been asking myself as well. I typically head out for a month every year for backpacking. The remaining 11 months I train on a 5.5 mile hike, 1000 feet of elevation and around 3500 steps with a 23 to 25 lb frameless pack – 20 times in a month. I feel that I am in the best shape of my life because of this.  (Resting heart rate of 46 or so). No idea of long term effects. I am 54 currently and hope I can hike till 75 – lets see. With this training regimen – I was able to do 20 miles on day 1/first 10 days and most of the Colorado trail (CT).

Your weight of 50 lbs seems like a lot. As long as you are not having pain during and after the hike (later in the night and next morning) and are recovering to the point that you are not dreading going for a hike with 50 lbs, I would think it should be okay. Still 50 lbs seems like a lot.

I think James Marco – an older hiker on this forum has said he hikes 6 days of the week with a 30 lb GG Murmur. Maybe he can chime in and give some insights as to how long he has been doing the 6 days in a week routine and how he is faring.

Thanks all for the feedback. I’ve been lucky enough that since college I’ve worked in the mountains, and then played in the mountains when not working. I’ve never had to “exercise” for the sake of exercising.  Whats becoming clear to me is that entering middle age requires a mental shift about staying fit :-) Especially as my work becomes slightly less active.

I have seen a orthopedic and had an MRI on one of my knees. I have some degenerative wear in my meniscus and maybe some early arthritis. So nothing too unusual but enough to make me rethink my activity and training a bit.

Based on comments here, it sounds like I’ll probably be better through some strength training (i.e. “exercise”…) than training with a heavy pack.

Well, I have been training for hiking every day for 10mi, been doing that for a long time, preCOVID for a couple years. Before that I would do 3mi with a 43lb pack. It definitly helped climbing hills on the trail. I went up and down about 20mi without even realizing it. However, my doctor said I have a stress fracture from some wilderness hiking for L2R. So, I had to ease up, though I still get out. I no longer carry a pack and just do about 3mi/day. Till I get an OK from the doctor, I’ll likely leave it at that. It has only been about 1 month. I heal slower at 68, so I am guessing another couple months. before I am pain free.

To the OP, getting ready for bigger trips.  I am 65 and have been backpacking for over 50 years but was a farmer for 40 years until this spring, so plenty of walking around the farm, heavy lifting, pulling, etc. kept me in really good physical shape but not much aerobic work.  Before long trips I have, since at least my late 40’s, carried an increasingly heavy pack on a 3 mile route with moderate hills starting about 4-5 weeks before the trip, starting with a 10# pack and increasing the weight 10# a week until I am 10# heavier than my starting pack weight will be.  That is usually 40#, occasionally 50#.  I do this at a 4 mph walking pace.  Most of my long trips are to the desert so heavier packs with water carries.  I also do these walks in the shoes I will be wearing.  All of this gets my feet, legs, hips, shoulders ready to carry a heavier pack and helps some with increasing my aerobic capability.

Now that I am retired (still managing our land and working a large garden) I walk every day.  Every other day is an aerobic walk, almost HIIT, with steep hills and the intervening days are a slower walk with my wife followed by a short workout of jumping jacks, lunges, push ups and planks.  So far still in pretty good condition.

Forget the loaded pack when you’ve got the COVID 19(lbs) loaded Thighs and Belly fat.

For the last 50 years or so my non-backpacking days have included eveerything except walking with a loaded pack (e.g. stairmaster, eliptical trainer, exercycle, treadmill, yard and garden, etc.)

When I go backpacking I feel good.   For me there has been no need to specifically train with a pack.

loaded Thighs and Belly fat.
Hilarious!
Long COVID can be a right pain.

Cheers

A thinning meniscus and the “beginnings” of arthritis are worth taking note of. The thing with knees is, they degenerate. And they don’t grow back. It’s a one way street. SO:

–sidewalks are harder than street concrete. Sounds ridiculous but look it up. so walk on the street.

–parcel out the time remaining on your knees. A reclining bike in the gym is a good way to strengthen the muscles around your joints without wear. The same holds for an elliptical or stair stepper–no stressing the joints. Swimming, ditto.

–doctors label degenerative meniscus as “arthritis” even when you’re grinding bone on bone. “Arthritis” is a catch all term when it comes to knees. It may not be as benign as it sounds, in many instances (as in, ‘oh, I can pop an ibuprofen and all will we good”.)

–there’s no muscling past bone on bone contact in the knees. You can’t build up muscle to overcome that condition–“Arthritis” I was told. Still, strengthening the muscles around the knees before one reaches this point is well worth the effort.

Can anyone provide me with a scientific article from a peer reviewed journal concerning  running in the street vs sidewalk or asphalt vs concrete?     Thanks

https://www.womensrunning.com/training/road/asphalt-versus-sidewalk-ask-coach/

from the short article:Runners often avoid the sidewalk and run on the asphalt as they seek softer surfaces. Cement by nature is a harder material than asphalt and contributes to more pounding on your bones and joints while running

when I went googling around just now, I couldn’t find the source that claimed asphalt was orders of magnitude softer than concrete. I did find plenty of sites making the same statement as above. No peer reviewed journal entries. Still, do we really need that? Runners universally experience asphalt as the softer surface. So do I. Just try it. That said, I may have overstated the benefits.

I don’t need a peer reviewed article to know when chili’s hot either.

I am not attacking you the messenger.  Unfortunately, the world is full of anecdotal testimonials.  These mean nothing in the medical and scientific world.  Where is the measurement of this hardness that matters?  To me, it is kind of like saying rubies are better than diamonds to run on.  They are both hard as hell.  Where is the blind study?  Anecdotal info is good to start studies, but is quite often proved totally false when scientifically investigated.  Just because a lot of people believe something does not make it true.  Remember, the world was flat for a very long time.

I understand what you’re saying. IT’s just…this is one of my pet peeves. I frequent a classical guitar forum. Often people will demand peer reviews for things like how one set of strings sound versus another; or two different guitars.

where does it end? I you (abstract ‘you’, not Arthur) say you love your dog, I could say that I won’t believe you until a study has been performed. I mean, your claiming to love your dog means nothing in the medical and scientific community. Of course, these last may have to kill your dog in order to get to the bottom of the question. Or take apart your guitar.

Do we need blind studies to confirm scientifically that a dirt path feels softer on one’s feet than concrete? No, our everyday experience can be trusted that it is so. Again, I suggest that people try running or walking on both surfaces and pay attention. There is a difference. If you google this, you’ll find that runners universally acknowledge that asphalt feels softer than concrete, and a dirt path feels softer still. We don’t need blind studies to prove that one Indian restaurant has spicier curries than another. We can’t go through life distrusting all of our experiences because they haven’t been wired up and measured by people wearing lab coats.

Oddly, on that classical guitar forum, many would take the word of a non musician, tone deaf lab coat with wires and knobs in hand over Julian Bream when it comes to evaluating a guitar. They can’t trust their own ears either, apparently.

Just a few thoughts (from a physicist):

Just what are runners assessing? Both asphalt and concrete (and dirt) are ‘hard’, in the physics sense, but they have slightly different degrees of roughness or ‘wobble’. It has been suggested that when your feet have to readjust with every step it is less tiring. So maybe it is not that one surface is softer, but that it is less tiring.

As for guitar strings and guitars: there is no reason to believe that what a good guitar playing wants is anywhere near what a lab measurement will provide. One should not confuse the two.

Cheers

Well, where’s the study that gives credence to doubting what I said? The doubt is every bit as anecdotal as my assertion.

here’s what I run into on the guitar forum:

A–my new guitar is much better than my old. Of course I also paid a lot more for it.

B: that’s just your anecdotal evidence. It’s likely that you’re being swayed by the price tag, and only imagining that it’s better.

A: my teacher, my wife and six experienced friends who’ve heard both guitars agree with me.

B: more anecdote. After all, there’s plenty of recorded instances of mass hysteria.

A: but—you only started playing guitar a month ago.

B: I’m a physicist. I have higher standards. Can’t you send the guitar off to a lab for independent analysis? Until then, I just can’t credit what you’re saying.

etc.etc.