Topo Maps

Forget about Garmin or any other dedicated GPS units, their displays suck and the unser interface is straight out of the 80s.  On Android at least there are two apps worthy of consideration

Gaia GPS – many people think it is the best option, I personally disagree

Backcountry Navigator XE – IMO it is far, far better than Gaia

Both have their own downloadable vector maps that take up very little space, you can download all of the western US in under 2-3 Gb.  They are not very good for real route finding.  However, both offer the option to download CalTopo tiles in your ROI, and both will allow you to upload GPS/kml/kmz tracks that you have created elsewhere.  Both will allow you to record tracks, add waypoints, comments, stats, etc.

Caltopo, which of course is hands down THE best desktop option for what you are requesting also has an app that allows you to download their maps.  It has ways to go to get on par with the functionality of Gaia and BCNAV XE, but if you want GOOD slope angle shading it is the only game in town.  Gaia and BCNAV XE have some layers that attempt to do slope angle shading but they are nowhere near as good as Caltopo.

If you decide to go for BCNAV make sure to get the XE option, not the PRO.  The XE is a subscription service nowadays, but it is already better than PRO in many ways and will continue to be supported.

Finally, Garmin has their own Earthmate app, which I find lacking.  The upside is that it pairs with some of their GPS units, but that is the only good thing I can say about it.

I have an original version of GAIA on my phone and use Cal Topo on my desktop.  So I no experience with either using GPS with their software.  I just went to the BCNAV website and looked at it. Looks interesting.

I may have missed it  but I don’t see where there is mention in any of the three that their maps are routable.  Do you know?

What do you mean by “routable”?  If you need heading, all of them will do it.  If you want to be able to “auto trace” trails then most of the time you will need to go back to the desktop version of the app.  Both Caltopo and BCNAV will do the latter, you will need to use the vector maps from BCNAV

With most GPS software, if you ask it to get you from waypoint A to waypoint B, it will produce a straight line. If the software is routable, it will direct you from A to B on known trails.

Gaia maps are routable if you plan your route on the desktop and then transfer to your phone. Since I’ve never tried to plan a route on the phone, I don’t know if it would also work to plan it there.

My concern translates to in-the-field routing rather than planning ahead. If, for whatever reason, I am off course or lost, I’d like to be able to enter the desired waypoint and have the software plot a route from where I am to that destination using known trails.

Obviously, I can determine my location using GPS and coordinate things with a paper topo map, which I always have with me, and determine the appropriate trail to return to the destination.  It would one less step to have the software plot that course for me.

Gaia, probably Backcountry Navigator (don’t know as I don’t use it) and the various inReach models, if you’re tracking your trip at all, have a breadcrumb feature to lead you back from whence you came.

BCNAVXE just announced routable hiking capabilities with certain maps

There is also a coupon for a 20% discount ROCKCHIP that you can use if you buy a sub through their website

Not affiliated with them other than as a customer. The debut of the app was inauspicious, but a year later they seem to have gotten most of the bugs under control and now the app is quite nice, albeit still slightly buggy.

Out mountain biking yesterday in a new area. Got lost, confused, whatever you want to call it.  Got out the phone.  it would not locate us on either app i was using.  Showed us in different place constantly.  We were in the desert, no trees, totally clear view of the sky.  So, I got out that Garmin with the “80’s interface”, small screen, and looked at the display that sucked, and it showed me exactly where we were and got us home the easy way.  My GPS always works.  Can’t say that about my phone.

The best maps I’ve found for my  Garmin OR700 are USA OSM Topo Routable maps.

I’m transitioning from the OR700 to my LG-V30 (circa 2017) cellphone, using the Caltopo beta app.  As mentioned previously, Caltopo desktop is an outstanding planning tool.  The slope shading is great.  I’ve got the basic subscription, so the maps that come with Caltopo app & desktop are good enough for bushwhacking.

To build my confidence in the cellphone app, I bring both OR700 & LG-V30…use the former for data logging, and the latter for navigation.  Navigating with the cellphone is so much easier.  Easy to zoom, scroll, see the big and small picture.  Very easy to navigate the menus, change map layers, etc.

I’ve encountered no GPS position problems with the LG-V30, which uses both GPS & GLONASS.  Galileo is spec’d in the chipset, but blocked by LG in the US versions.  Eventually, with increased experience and confindence, I’ll leave the OR700 at home.  Garmin handhelds will be a thing of the past.

Out mountain biking yesterday in a new area. Got lost, confused, whatever you want to call it.  Got out the phone.  it would not locate us on either app i was using.  Showed us in different place constantly.  We were in the desert, no trees, totally clear view of the sky.  So, I got out that Garmin with the “80’s interface”, small screen, and looked at the display that sucked, and it showed me exactly where we were and got us home the easy way.  My GPS always works.  Can’t say that about my phone.

Can you clarify what model phone had a difficulty with GPS lock?  In 7-8 years of using a phone as a GPS device I have never had a problem with GPS lock under the conditions you describe.  Forrests and canyons are places where a cell phone will struggle.  Dedicated GPS units undoubtedly have better radios that some mid-range phones, particularly ones that are a 4-5 years old.

“Dedicated GPS units undoubtedly have better radios that some mid-range phones”

For a few tears now combined cellphone sales are at least 1000x all dedicated GPS units and almost all cellphones use the latest an greatest GPS chipsets (“radios”).

Anymore the GPS chipsets (“radios”) in the cellphones are the are the best chipsets available from the merchant GPS chip vendors.

However, the dedicated GPS units likely have better antenna designs. Cellphones are mainly tested in urban, suburban and rural settings – the biggest GPS challenge they face is in urban “canyons” with a lot of tall buildings etc. Dedicated GPS units are designed for and (hopefully) tested by their vendors in the outdoors.

That said, I’ve rarely experienced any issues with GPS location using an app like Backcountry navigator or Gaia on my smartphone in the past several years. One should know to expect issues under dense canopy or in deep narrow canyons with steep walls. Even my old dedicated Garmin unit struggled in those settings. My Inreach seems to acquire GPS location in the most challenging situations but messages take a lot longer to send or to receive.

Got out the phone. it would not locate us on either app i was using. Showed us in different place constantly. We were in the desert, no trees, totally clear view of the sky.
In the circumstances, I am left to wonder whether the phone was using a GPS receiver for this, or whether it was trying to triangulate off phone towers.

Cheers

@rcaffin

Entirely possible.  If it’s an iPhone, and it’s a relatively new version of iOS, put it in airplane mode and try again.  If it’s Android, can’t help you on the how, but I’m sure there is a similar way to force GPS vs A-GPS.  Most phones, when cellular service is on are going to use A-GPS and depending on how many towers, signal strength, and the quality of the algorithm, it might in fact be wildly off.  Definitely wouldn’t want to get myself out of a jam with A-GPS doing the work.  Then again, if I were in a jam, I’d be using a couple of methods to make sure where I am and what direction/path I’m gonna take.

Samsung S9, in airplane mode. I switched to airplane mode to shut down the cell searching. I get that.  I do agree with Pedestrian, antennas are a big issue.  Any HAM will tell you that.

There is either a hardware, operator, or app issue.  A properly functioning S9 will have no difficulty obtaining a GPS lock under the conditions you describe.  In any case, glad that your GPS helped you get back.

Cell phones are a lot of things. One thing they are is fragile. The weakest link in the chain.

I don’t want to rely on something that if dropped on a rock is likely to fail or if dropped in a stream is likely to croak.  When I’m out by myself in the backcountry, I’m happy to sacrifice by having a smaller screen size, or more clumsy texting, if I know that unit will survive horrific conditions.

Murphy’s Law dictate’s that if something bad can happen it will.  I’m hedging my bet the Garmin 66i will keep on ticking long after the cell phone has been given a ceremonious 21-gun salute, streamside.

I don’t get how an app could tell you how to get from A to B. It won’t know about impenetrable walls of yucca or poison oak.

“I don’t get how an app could tell you how to get from A to B. It won’t know about impenetrable walls of yucca or poison oak.”

Very succinctly put! :)

You might get what you ask for…….but maybe not what you needed….

Understanding the limitations of any technology you use is crucial…

The OP is unwilling to rely on cellphones (not entirely unreasonable maybe); but seeks “turn by turn” directions from their GPS device on trails…..

I don’t get how an app could tell you how to get from A to B
ROTFLMAO!
The app can tell you, but it won’t know about the 40 m high cliffs in the way. We have a lot of that around here!

Cheers

Let’s get real about the OP’s question – all he/she are asking is for routing along established trails that already show up on maps.  There are no 40m high cliff walls or impassible yucca along these – or at leas there should not be.  I share the skepticism that this is a value added functionality in the field.  One should have a plan before they go in, and when the plans change the re-routing required will be a few miles, which should be straightforward to figure out just by looking at the screen.

On the desktop the functionality is clearly useful (to me) – particularly when I want to trace out a route along dirt 4WD roads that stretch on for 20-50 miles through the desert.

There a *lot* of “well established” trails that I know of that for one reason or another become impassable from time to time. Ask anyone that spends much time on the coastal California hills south of Monterey and north of Santa Barbara (or even further south).

In theory it should be possible to have app that provides “turn by turn” directions.

One technology that might make this more feasible is something like this. Current handheld devices have a hard time figuring out orientation; without knowing orientation it’s hard to provide directions.

“I don’t get how an app could tell you how to get from A to B. It won’t know about impenetrable walls of yucca or poison oak.”

Topo maps, the paper kind, are my principal source for wilderness navigation. The paper topo maps aren’t going to tell you if there are walls of yucca, poison oak, or dense underbrush.  Nothing will tell you that until you are physically at the location.

I use CalTopo on my desktop and it is fantastic.  I can create a map on CalTopo using whatever customized layers that I want and then export the map to a Garmin 66i.

Can I prepare customized maps in CalTopo and export them for use in Gaia?