- Aug 9, 2017 at 8:35 pm #3484094
Larry De La BriandaisBPL Member
@hitechLocale: SF Bay Area
I would definitely try a torso length blue CCF pad on top of your existing pad. After trying that you can decide if you want a sleeping bag or if the quilt works for you. But you need more warmth underneath you.Aug 27, 2017 at 7:44 pm #3487367
brian HBPL Member
@b14Locale: Siskiyou Mtns
<I wasn’t wearing a down hat, but did have an OR winter beanie with my down jacket hood over it.>
i would think your winter beanie-down hood combo would provide MORE warmth than the hood of a down bag [by istelf]…therefore am guessing the culprit must be elsewhere.Aug 28, 2017 at 12:54 am #3487405
@rcaffinLocale: Wollemi & Kosciusko NPs, Europe
Head gear sounds fine, but mat sounds FAR too light. Try a much better mat before you change the bag/quilt. I can recommend a full-length Exped UL7 with a 1/8″ foam mat underlay as being good to about -5 C.
Frameless packs are OK for a few pounds on a day trip. For anything more you need a frame to control the torso length of the pack. Yeah, I know some disagree, but since you have had a serious problem here …
CheersAug 28, 2017 at 9:36 pm #3487613
Lee WBPL Member
@ltwLocale: Mojave Desert
When I’m thinking about staying warm, I tend to look at the mechanisms that steal the heat away from me and what I can do to minimize that. My shelter or bivy sack keeps the breeze from blowing on me and keeps me warm by helping to eliminate convection. My insulated sleeping pad keeps my off of the cold ground and helps eliminate the conduction. My quilt keeps the heat my body produces in there with me rather than radiating it to the outside world.
Sounds like you have a drafty shelter and a not that well insulated pad. With those two things at sub optimal levels, it’s tough to gauge whether your quilt is up to the job or not.
Regarding a quilt vs a mummy, this has been written about a lot, but I do much better in a quilt. I sleep on my side and turn many times each night. With a mummy, I have a cold spot where I’ve compressed the down and I’m doing a barrel roll all night. Every time I turn over, I expose a new cold spot. With my Katabatic quilt secured to my pad with the straps, it stays put and I roll around pretty freely inside. When I’m pushing the limits of the quilt, I have my puffy on, the quilt neck synched down snug, a warm hat, and I’m still doing better than I did in a mummy for 20 years.
Obviously your experience my vary. Best of luck getting it sorted out.Aug 28, 2017 at 10:00 pm #3487621
Edward John MBPL Member
What’s the air permeability of the quilt outer face fabric like?
I have noticed a huge difference in warmth of various weights of fill as the outer shell fabric becomes more windproof The shell on my new UL APEX quilt is Robic for this very reason, although I’d probably not use Robic with down it is done by someAug 30, 2017 at 5:32 am #3487823
Brad PBPL Member
You said you want to be as light as possible, but really you want to be as comfortable as possible. It’s pretty clear your body will not accept that much weight on your shoulders, so as others have said, work on finding a framed pack that moves the weight off of your shoulders.
Maybe wait until you’re sure you’re fully healed before you test out new packs.
Most tents can be pitched lower to the ground. If you did this and it still was drafty, then maybe look at something with higher bathtub walls. I have no experience with their products, but Yama has a higher wall.Aug 30, 2017 at 10:38 am #3487872
Yuri RBPL Member
How about a hammock?
Less weight than a tent, can be easier and faster to setup too. Staying warm is an issue though in either. In one you are on the ground, in the other – you are hanging in the wind. Both can be solved, but at some weight gain.Aug 30, 2017 at 12:06 pm #3487890
Tracey ABPL Member
Yuri–I mostly camp above or near tree line in Colorado, which makes hammocks tricky! Cool idea though!Sep 1, 2017 at 1:44 am #3488262
Edward John MBPL Member
Morale also has a lot to do with how well you sleep.
If the pack was hurting a bit. Your shoulders sore you may not have been well relaxed but when I read the post my first thoughts were that lack of the right type of calories at the right time coupled with slight dehydration may also have been part of the problem
More mattress tho; totally agree with the posters who say not enough mattressSep 1, 2017 at 5:45 am #3488270
James MarcoBPL Member
@jamesdmarcoLocale: Finger Lakes
Shoulders: I believe your pack might be a bit too large. This will cause pack collapse and most of the weight transferred to your shoulders. This is not the only reason, though. Another problem is the straps themselves. For a running pack, these are usually less padded. Your shoulders might not be toughened enough to take this. Running packs also have a somewhat wider spacing between the straps. This is to provide a wider base and more freedom of movement, but again, it will tend to bite your shoulders…overcompensating with the torso strap (pulling the shoulder straps closer together) will pull them somewhat out of line causing the edge to bite more near the strap (your clavicle.) With the somewhat stooped posture of the runner, this does not usually present a problem, bit just for hiking, it will also bother your side breasts. Then there is packing. Packing a frameless pack means you have to pack gear more vertically. You need longer and narrower stuff sacks for this to enable you to roll up the sleeping bag/quilt vertically, storing food vertically and rolling up your tent and poles so it sits vertically. Lastly, is the hip belt. Overpadding on the belt can cause a perpetual slippage as you hike from compression of the padding. Too much padding is as bad as too little, causing a slight slip at each step until the weight is all on your shoulders. I would recommend a CCF pad folded with your tent poles at the edges to help stiffen the structure, too.
Warm is a matter of adding insulation. A down jacket/hoodie will help there, along with a CCF pad over your NeoAir. I have taken my 20F Revalation down to about 17F doing this and I tend to sleep a bit cold at my age. Good midweight Long-johns will help, perhaps over some lightweight woolie long johns. A long fluffy set of sleeping socks will help, too. But do not use these for hiking.Sep 1, 2017 at 6:22 am #3488275
BRYON LBPL Member
I have an EE 40d Revelation, and it was chilly for me as well. I sent it back to EE about 6 months ago, and they added down to it, taking it closer to a 30d rating. Any more down and it will put too much pressure on the seams. I’ve been out in it a few times since the extra stuffing and I can tell a measurable difference. I think it was around $30-$40 for this, including shipping.Sep 1, 2017 at 10:04 am #3488312
jeffrey armbrusterBPL Member
@bookLocale: Northern California
A double wall tent–like a Big Agnes Ul1–will add 6-10 degrees warmth over a single wall. The high fabric wall on the inner blocks wind pretty well too. That, combined with a better pad (rated for below freezing) and mummy and a down hat at night may go a long way towards keeping you warm at night.
This is totally old school, but my two cents.
Sep 1, 2017 at 2:47 pm #3488389
- This reply was modified 4 months, 2 weeks ago by jeffrey armbruster.
Katherine .BPL Member
I’d give the quilt one more shot with increased R-value underneath. If that doesn’t work, you may just not be a quilt person.
I do fine with the pad/quilt combo you have and can’t tolerate mummies. But plenty of accomplished, weight-conscious backpackers prefer them. It’s another one of those individual things.
(and I have the impression the the six moon packs tend don’t fit women well. but i forget what I’m basing that on.)Sep 2, 2017 at 12:08 am #3488488
I love my Feathered Friends mummy bag. It’s lightweight, and expensive but soooo cozy. I have never slept warmer in anything anywhere, even at home with an electric blanket. I am usually a very cold sleeper and prior to this bag, I would often sleep only lightly when camping, always at a deficit. I also use a 1/8″ thin pad on top of my air pad, if temperatures dip. A hot cup of tea before bed helps a lot too; I find eating prior to bedtime uncomfortable.Sep 2, 2017 at 5:08 am #3488504
Donna CBPL Member
@leadfootLocale: Middle Virginia
Take a look at Ultimate Direction’s Fastpak series. I ordered their 35L pack for an upcoming trip and was carrying 10lbs and it felt great. The only problem for me was that it was too big for my torso, otherwise, I would have kept it. It has a somewhat stiff back, but my guess is you could add more to that. I bought it through Backcountry.com and received it overnight, free shipping. I did send it back however, and they waived the shipping charges. There is also a 30L pack.Sep 2, 2017 at 10:43 pm #3488678
Sam CBPL Member
I have a 2014 model Fusion 50; different pack but with similar harness/frame concept with the only real difference being that the hip belt in Fusion line has a stiff plastic sheet inside and the single aluminum stay up through the center of the pack. It takes some time to properly adjust the harness system, but once there you will understand what the hype is about. Maybe.
That said, this line was designed by an avid hiker/trail runner. The Flights are meant to be worn above the hips, or higher up on the hips than normal, and are designed to carry weight while running/jogging. Essentially, they are designed to distribute weight across your back and torso with the hip belt largely being there to help stabilize the pack while running. For what-ever reason, they won’t carry weight well while just walking around and simply walking fast with a Flight won’t cut it. For what it’s worth, I’d suggest calling SMD and hear what they have to say. To be frank, SMD packs are not very popular around here.
A rule of thumb with UL packs is to take the upper weight carry limits with a grain of salt.
Sep 13, 2017 at 12:51 pm #3490799
- This reply was modified 4 months, 2 weeks ago by Sam C.
Ryan TBPL Member
I’ve had a few EE quilts and I’m a side sleeper so I’ll add my thoughts. I used to have a 20 degree one in regular length but I’d get cold at night (in the 30’s) because I couldn’t pull it over my head. Since then I’ve gotten 2. One is 10 degrees in long x wide and I’ve never been cold in it but I will pull it over my head on cold nights. I recently got a 40 degrees one (16 oz) again long x wide and I’ve been surprised as even in that I’m not getting cold at night with it up over my head. Is yours long enough to do this? Makes a world of difference for me.Sep 15, 2017 at 11:44 am #3491120
John CBPL Member
I use a EE 20d short/wide 950 fill quilt (16.7oz), combined with a Therm-A-Rest Women’s NeoAir Xlite (small) (12oz), and half a Therm-A-Rest Z-Lite Sol (6.5oz) for added R value and protection for the NeoAir in rocky conditions. I just finished the HST with some sub-freezing nights, and I was so toasty warm I had to open up the quilt. I believe the pads make a huge difference in heat retention when combined with the quilt.Sep 23, 2017 at 2:30 pm #3492802
Tracey ABPL Member
UPDATE: I tried some various suggestions with my current set up and was still not happy, so I sold both the quilt and the pad. I then bought a WM Versalite 10 degree bag, the BA Qcore SLX, and added 1/8″ CCF to use on top of the pad. I went out last weekend and camped at 11k in some wind and light rain with temps about 30 degrees. I was so toasty warm and comfortable! One thing I love about using that CCF on top of the pad is that it really holds the bag in place. Nice bonus! It will take a few more trips to be sure, but I think I will be happy with this set up, even with a bit of added weight. Thanks everyone for your great suggestions and help!Sep 24, 2017 at 1:09 am #3492899
Dena KelleyBPL Member
@eagleriverdeeLocale: Eagle River, Alaska
That’s virtually the same set up I have. I use the Versalite, as well, with a BA Q-Core SL, and a CCF on top.
I’m glad you found something that keeps you warm!Oct 24, 2017 at 6:17 am #3498144
Edgar HBPL Member
Conduction is the most potent form of heat diffusion.
I guess convection as a form of conduction could be an even greater factor in some circumstances (ice water flowing by for an extreme example), the air molecules being agents of conduction themselves. Assuming you’ve at least got a wind break, it seems like the R value of the padding underneath is going is going to have a disproportionate influence on warmth, at least to a certain point, R4, R5, R6? The big advantage with quilts anyway is to not carry weight of insulation that gets squashed flat. The down side of that (pun intended) is that you don’t get the hollows between pressure points filled with partially lofted insulation.
Closed cell foam pads flatten out over time too. I wonder about a light synthetic bottom quilt to fill hollows, along with an inflatable, or closed cell pad.
I’ve always loved closed cell after camping around mesquite trees.Oct 28, 2017 at 2:49 pm #3499071
Richie SBPL Member
This is what it is all about really – you have to find what works for you. I’m good above freezing with a quilt, but then switch to a bag at 30 or below. I just don’t get the build up of heat I need with a quilt. If you have got things pretty low all around and extra pound of weight to make you warm and comfy at night is well worth it – maybe even two.Nov 3, 2017 at 6:30 pm #3500095
S. SteeleBPL Member
@sbsteeleLocale: North Central New Jersey
What clothing were you wearing other than the beanie and down hood?
I carry chemical heaters with me for an emergency. I recommend them as a back-up for when the temp and or wind chill become unexceptable in or out of a bag.
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