Time to swap shelters (again)…

…and then, without a great deal of warning, things happened.

I’ll go into the full story and some details of what made the final decision for me when I have a full keyboard in front of me tomorrow, but the spoiler is this: there’s a Hilleberg on the way.  Found a deal and I couldn’t pass it up.

So, here’s the complete version of how I jumped off the deep end.

After going in circles for weeks, I sat down and re-read this entire thread several times; what became clear was that in addition to the plethora of solid advice that has been given – thank you! – there was also one glaring omission: nobody had really touched on manufacturer support, warranties, etc.  This stood out to me because of something that’s been going on behind the scenes: as new tents have been been mentioned or manufacturers discussed, I’ve been contacting either them or their distributors with questions on fabrics, poles, areas and volumes, availability/shipping, etc.  Out of the dozens of emails that I’ve sent, I’ve gotten a reply from exactly two of them: Durston and Hilleberg.

I’m not embellishing that, by the way: those are literally the only two companies that responded, and Dan gets extra points because he not only jumped in on the thread here, but also got back to me via PM just as quickly as Hilleberg did with e-mail.  It’s been radio silence from everyone else; some of those contact forms are almost a month old, now.

So, when I sat down to compare the tents that were still on my Final Cut list after circling around the issue for far too long, I realized that a lot of my reservations about certain models came from simply not knowing something about them and not having been able to get an answer from a manufacturer…but my only questions about the models from Dan and Hilly were essentially derivations of “am I gonna like this one?”  I have a thread and a PM chain here where Dan pretty much answered everything that was asked of him, and I have an e-mail chain with Hilleberg that’s not only overly technical, but embarrassingly long.  Each took the time to interface with a potential customer and address all of my inanities…and that was pretty much the end of the story, for me: when it comes down to spending money on gear that literally keeps me safe from the storm, I’m simply more comfortable with a company that’s willing to stand behind their product before I’ve bought it.  In many ways, this entire decision had a lot more to do with the manufacturer than it did the specific model.

That being said, the models in question had been winnowed down to two: Dan’s X-Dome, or Hilleberg’s Nallo.  Between those two, I think the X-Dome is a good choice for lighter and warmer weather, and the Nallo is a great option for an all-mountain tunnel with a bit more room in the porch for when things get ugly.  Neither really overlaps the other by a significant amount, so it comes down to simply picking one or the other and giving it a shot…and once I started shopping both options, it became a very simple question of supply, demand and price.

As of this writing, the X-Domes are simply not to be had, which is great for Dan and everybody that got one, but not so good for me…and that’s okay, because I’d really like to see the DCF versions of both sizes.  On the other hand, the Nallo is very available…and as it turns out, not as expensive as I was ready for it to be.  I did some shopping around and managed to find a brand new Nallo 2 in Sand* that was on sale for 20% off; on top of that, I managed to stack a 10% coupon code with it, and got free shipping out of the deal as well.  I couldn’t pass up that deal, so I pulled the trigger on it.

So, that’s where we are with it; I’ll post some updates when it shows up and I inevitably begin to question my decisions.

*Note: this color is not actually sand-colored; nor is it bronze, beige, khaki, tan, mocha, dark nude, or even off-camel.  It is best described as “banana-slug-brown-and-yellow”…and I’m not kidding about that; seriously, go look it up.

Am I reading correctly that the tent you bought is 2.4kg?

Am I reading correctly that the tent you bought is 2.4kg?

All-in, yeah… that’s probably close.  Some people weigh them and find that they’re a bit lighter when you leave the repair kits out, but that’s a wash if you’re bringing a bit of extra line or a few extra stakes.  I think you can probably save a few grams by swapping guylines, going with lightweight sacks and bags, etc, but it’s probably not going to make much difference.  I’ll weigh it when it gets here, if you like.

“Am I reading correctly that the tent you bought is 2.4kg?”

Dan, don’t judge. We all have different goals. I can image some trips where that tent would be pretty great.

Bonzo, funny about the hilleberg responding so well via email. I actually got an email from them today asking about when niak mesh inners will be available.

I doubt Bonzo is unaware that his new tent is a pretty heavy one compared to what most BPLers are using. I don’t see a judgement in the weight comment, so much as a recognition of the choice he’s making, trading functions desired for quite a bit of extra poundage.

I’m never sensitive any more about what I carry, after many online “shake downs,” which were helpful in the long run. But I still carry my crocs, lightweight backpacking be darned.

But let us know how well you like it after a few hikes! and pics.

Like a lot of backpacking gear, shelters are always a compromise.  It’s a balance between weight, durability, livability, storm worthiness, footprint, etc – and Bonzo may not have chosen the same balance that I would have (or many of us would), but he chose what works for him and the conditions he hikes in and that’s whats important.

I get it as my 2018 X-Mid has about ~90 nights on it and also has a few patches and a place in the floor I need to patch.  I’m not upset with that – I simply don’t get out much anymore, but I use to get out about 50 nights a year and I can understand the desire for something more durable for high volume hikers.

I guess my question about weight came from the fact that the final decision was apparently between the Hilleberg and the Durston Dome, which is more than two pounds lighter. It was just surprising to me because the Hilleberg doesn’t seem to be in the same category as the Durston, or the Stratospire it is replacing, or all of the other tents discussed in the thread. So I wanted to be sure I was looking at the right tent.

It’s like someone asking whether they should buy a Prius, a Civic, or a Hyundai Elantra, and then after a lot of discussion, they buy an Escalade. It just took me by surprise.

That’s 5 and a third pounds in good ol’ american weights. (he salutes). ( I won’t say what kind of salute.)

Hilleberg has a fabulous reputation in all regards. Bonzo would seem to have made a good choice in terms of his criteria.

I personally do my best to avoid foul weather and bail when a three day torrential storm blows in all unexpectedly. Obviously, a Hilleberg is overkill for me. spending days cooped up in a tent is not my idea of “experiencing the wilderness”. I understand others will say, well ya gotta take the good with the bad. I’ve had plenty of bad weather on my supposedly good trips.I don’t go seeking out trouble and misery.

Yeah, hilleberg supposed to be heavy, but good in really bad weather.

Rsbtr has a podcast.  They interviewed durston.  He said that he and hilleberg have a really passionate following.  If someone complains about a durston or hilleberg product online, they gat attacked by passionate supporters.  More so than other brands.

That is sort of what I get from listening to people here.

Dan, don’t judge. We all have different goals. I can image some trips where that tent would be pretty great.

I didn’t really feel judged, there; mostly it seemed like I’d caused a great deal of confusion.  I’ll address the suitability of the tent in certain situations here in a few.

Bonzo, funny about the hilleberg responding so well via email. I actually got an email from them today asking about when niak mesh inners will be available.

They had a one-hour turnaround time on most of their replies throughout the saga that was my e-mail chain with them…and let me tell you: that spoke volumes.  At one point, I got a five-paragraph essay in response to what I thought to be a simple question.

I doubt Bonzo is unaware that his new tent is a pretty heavy one compared to what most BPLers are using. I don’t see a judgement in the weight comment, so much as a recognition of the choice he’s making, trading functions desired for quite a bit of extra poundage.

The list of things of which I’m unaware is as long as- …well, let’s just say it’s extremely long.*  The weight of a Nallo, however, is not among that legion.  Also, I don’t really think it’s that heavy of a tent; it’s a pound or so heavier than my old my Sierra Designs tent, exactly the same weight as my Eldorado, and more livable than both of them put together.

I’m never sensitive any more about what I carry, after many online “shake downs,” which were helpful in the long run. But I still carry my crocs, lightweight backpacking be darned.

Same.  I clip weight where I can easily do so and I clip my fixations on weight-saving wherever I can’t.  And it’s ironic that you mention crocs: I’m looking for some lightweight camp sandals, myself.

But let us know how well you like it after a few hikes! and pics.

Will do!  Hopefully the fires over in the Olympics will be out, soon; they’re currently incinerating one of my favorite places to hike.  Might make for a surreal landscape once winter sets in.

Like a lot of backpacking gear, shelters are always a compromise.  It’s a balance between weight, durability, livability, storm worthiness, footprint, etc – and Bonzo may not have chosen the same balance that I would have (or many of us would), but he chose what works for him and the conditions he hikes in and that’s whats important.

I think I’m one of the only people here that would have willingly chosen a five-pound tent and considered it “lightweight”…but, yeah, you’re correct: I chose something that will work for me.  More importantly, I chose something that’ll work for my poor decision-making paradigms.

Also: thanks for the support, both to you and everyone else.  I was honestly ready for a criticism storm regarding the Hilly, so this is a nice surprise.

I guess my question about weight came from the fact that the final decision was apparently between the Hilleberg and the Durston Dome, which is more than two pounds lighter.

Weight was not really that much of a determining factor, in the end.  Sure, I considered it – I overly considered it for days and days and days – but when I asked myself if this particular bit of weight mattered: no…it didn’t.

It was just surprising to me because the Hilleberg doesn’t seem to be in the same category as the Durston, or the Stratospire it is replacing, or all of the other tents discussed in the thread. So I wanted to be sure I was looking at the right tent.

That’s because it isn’t in the same category…so, you’re correct to be confused.  That being said, several tents have been discussed which have all been significantly heavier than the American-style ultralights.  One of the chief questions I’ve had during this process has been whether or not the sacrificial bias towards weight-savings that’s nearly universal in American tents was something I wanted to court; in the end…no, it wasn’t.

It’s like someone asking whether they should buy a Prius, a Civic, or a Hyundai Elantra, and then after a lot of discussion, they buy an Escalade. It just took me by surprise.

If one discovers that their particulars are actually best served by the Escalade, then it’s the right choice.  To that end, a great deal of this journey has been focused around me getting away from what I’ve been told that I should care about, and discovering exactly what I want and need in a new long-term, go-anywhere tent.

That’s 5 and a third pounds in good ol’ american weights. (he salutes). ( I won’t say what kind of salute.

Yep!  5.3-ish pounds; 77.3 troy ounces, 0.16 arroba, or – my favorite – 5.87 funts.

Hilleberg has a fabulous reputation in all regards. Bonzo would seem to have made a good choice in terms of his criteria.

I personally do my best to avoid foul weather and bail when a three day torrential storm blows in all unexpectedly. Obviously, a Hilleberg is overkill for me. spending days cooped up in a tent is not my idea of “experiencing the wilderness”. I understand others will say, well ya gotta take the good with the bad. I’ve had plenty of bad weather on my supposedly good trips.I don’t go seeking out trouble and misery.

I don’t go out seeking it, either, but I’ve been caught on the wrong side of it more often than I care to admit.  I’ve dealt with strong winds – like, really strong – on exposed terrain more than once, and I’ve also seen 12+” of rain come down in about as many hours.  I’ve had downbursts and snow squals hit my campsites, and I’ve had weather turn ugly up at altitude…and in every one of those cases, the forecast simply didn’t give me any reason to not be out there.  Some of the shelters that I was in survived; some didn’t.  So, perhaps I’m a victim of my own circumstances; either way, there’s a lot of good country out there, and a lot of bad weather…and a great deal of both can be found right outside my door.  The rest seems to have scattered itself around the remainder of the planet…but that means it really isn’t very far away, when you think about it.

Yeah, hilleberg supposed to be heavy, but good in really bad weather.

Despite my talk of weather, this decision was more a question of durability, longevity and comfort.  In many cases, tents are a disposable and somewhat fragile commodity…and that’s not what I’m looking for.  Sure, it’s a 5+ funt tent, but I can promise you that as soon as the first bad storm hits in the middle of the night, I’m not going to care one damn bit about those extra funts.  Instead, I’m going to do my best to roll over, snuggle in, say “It’s fine; she’ll take it” and get back to pleasant dreams of places I should have gone instead.  From that perspective, it’s not really a five-pound tent; it’s actually a three-pound tent that comes pre-packaged with two pounds of cozy.

Rsbtr has a podcast.  They interviewed durston.  He said that he and hilleberg have a really passionate following.  If someone complains about a durston or hilleberg product online, they gat attacked by passionate supporters.  More so than other brands.

Not surprising; those two brands are the absolute darlings of the current outfluencer™ crowd…and yes, I’m trademarking that term.  Here’s the definition:

outfluencer: n. an influencer that mostly influences people in the outdoors.

But for seriously: you aren’t wrong about the fanboy aspect of those labels.  When I sent a text to my climbing partner and told him that I bought a Hilleberg, his response was “Cool, now you’re qualified to have a YouTube channel and film yourself not really doing anything.”

Anyways…the reputation that Hilleberg has seems to be well-earned; they’re good when it’s bad and they hold up, long-term.  Those qualities appeal to me more than weight savings.  Durston tents seem to be getting a good rep as well; it was difficult to not buy one (well, as difficult as it could be, given that they aren’t available right this second…but you get what I’m saying).

*- it’s as long as…an…an oarfish!  yeah, that’s it!  an oarfish!  that’s the ticket!

Second big issue: I don’t like using my trekking poles for supports.  I know it makes good weight sense to do so, but I tend to use my poles for everything when I’m moving on a trail, and that’s something I often do after making camp.

For a base camp, I think the Hilleberg is a great choice. Personally, I’d hold onto the SS as well.

For a base camp, I think the Hilleberg is a great choice.

I agree: it could serve for that.  Part of the reason that I originally considered it was because I thought it had a good layout and space for those hibernation days that nobody really enjoys…and that’s kind of what you need in a base tent as well.  I might want a bit more covered space in a dedicated base tent, but there’s nothing wrong with keeping things tight and tidy and not spreading out to all corners of the site.

Also – and this is going back to what Jerry said – I happened to be watching something on YouTube last night, and a few videos about the Hilleberg/Durston situation came into the feed…and boy, there are some serious fanboy attitudes going on with those crowds, lately.  My advice: don’t read the comments.

Personally, I’d hold onto the SS as well.

I think there’s a lot of wisdom in having an optional tent of some flavor or other, but the Strat ain’t it for me.  Literally everything about that tent should work perfectly for me: decent height at the center, good vestibules, nice amount of floor space for one, and it’ll hold up to some weather…but it just doesn’t feel good to me, and I struggle with it.

Years ago I worked six days on trail crew in the Hoh rain forest. It rained all six days. then another 3 weeks elsewhere in the Olympics. Not quite so bad. I also worked summers throughout the North Cascades. It can and will rain any month. there’s a three week widnow starting the second week in September when it rarely rains. these days, there’s usually fires at that time.

Anyway a Hilleberg makes more sense in the PNW. Durston lives and hikes in the PNW. And his tent designs show that! They seem pretty bomb. proof.

Years ago I worked six days on trail crew in the Hoh rain forest. It rained all six days. then another 3 weeks elsewhere in the Olympics. Not quite so bad. I also worked summers throughout the North Cascades. It can and will rain any month. there’s a three week widnow starting the second week in September when it rarely rains. these days, there’s usually fires at that time.

Solid analysis.  Right where I am, we will have approximately three months of zero, rain starting in June…but yeah: if you go into the hills, it can and will rain at any time.  Go up a few thousand feet and it can and will snow at any time.  I’m looking at the Eastern face of the Olympics right now, and I’m pretty sure that a few of them got a dusting in the last day or so, up near the top.

Durston lives and hikes in the PNW.

I thought he might.

And his tent designs show that! They seem pretty bomb. proof.

Agreed!  And I’m still really interested in the X-Dome, and I’d like to try on when I can get one.  I don’t want redundant tents in the closet, but that tent doesn’t really overlap the Hilleberg, as I said before.  I’m also hoping that the DCF version comes out at some point, mostly because I’d like to see what it can take.

Come to think of it, I have a ton of spare time and access to some excellent places: I should’ve been a gear-tester, professionally.  I’m not even kidding about that, either: I could finally monetize my pedantic love of over-analysis and detail-fixation.  I don’t know how anyone actually gets into that line of work, but yeah…missed my calling on that one.  But, I guess there’s still plenty of time if I really want to do it. 🤔

FYI, the X Dome 2 will ship end of August.

One of the chief questions I’ve had during this process has been whether or not the sacrificial bias towards weight-savings that’s nearly universal in American tents was something I wanted to court; in the end…no, it wasn’t.

This resonates with me. All my other gear is considered lightweight. For the longest time, I was in the same boat with backpacks. I finally found a lightweight one I love in the SWD Wolverine. I think the X Dome could be the same for me. I just have to get it and sleep in it some nights to change my perception.

Off topic ( kind of ), but I’ve read a book recently called the Comfort Crisis. Awesome book that everyone on this site should take a look at. I do wonder if me just trying to be more comfortable outdoors while backpacking is my issue and if I just accepted a little discomfort with my tent ( hopefully just at first ) I would be doing myself a favor. After all, a lot of the enjoyment I get from backpacking can be rooted in the discomfort I endure.

FYI, the X Dome 2 will ship end of August.

I might be interested in the 2, but I was more fixated on the 1; I think my ideal model would be somewhere between the two.  Regardless, I have a bad track history of ordering X-Domes; with my luck, I’d manage to screw-up the pre-order. 🤣

This resonates with me. All my other gear is considered lightweight. For the longest time, I was in the same boat with backpacks. I finally found a lightweight one I love in the SWD Wolverine. I think the X Dome could be the same for me. I just have to get it and sleep in it some nights to change my perception.

I don’t really try to save weight in my backpack: in addition to my tent, my backpack is what protects everything else I carry…and it also does double-duty with protecting my spine.  Having a lot of cumulative lower-back damage, I have to be careful; ultralight packs aren’t even an option for me.  Both of my packs have a thicker frame sheet than normal, and twin aluminum stays that are fitted to my spinal curvature, and those bits are what make load-carrying possible for me.

Off topic ( kind of ), but I’ve read a book recently called the Comfort Crisis. Awesome book that everyone on this site should take a look at. I do wonder if me just trying to be more comfortable outdoors while backpacking is my issue and if I just accepted a little discomfort with my tent ( hopefully just at first ) I would be doing myself a favor. After all, a lot of the enjoyment I get from backpacking can be rooted in the discomfort I endure.

I guess that I’m different in a lot of regards: I don’t seek discomfort at all…and most of the time, I actively avoid it.  What I do seek are experiences, and if they come with discomfort, I can accept that…but I don’t go looking for it: I’ve been down that road and found that for the most part, there’s no additional or inherent richness at its end.  Discomfort, for me, is simply the cost of doing business at times…and if I can reduce that cost, I probably will do so.  That said, I’ll look into the book you mentioned: thanks for the recommendation!