Time to swap shelters (again)…

Mont….now Wilderness Equipment 🙂. Maybe you need to visit Australia.

Hey, it’s not MY fault that you guys have good stuff!!  🤣

But for seriously: I’m honestly just trying to find the best options for myself, because the hiking/trekking shelters that we have available in the States are generally optimized not just for a milder climate, but to be profitable in an industry that’s increasingly chasing lighter gear weights to satisfy customer demand.  Looking around at the tent market in the rest of the world, it’s clear that durability, longevity, protection from weather and livability are all higher in priority than sheer weight savings…and those factors are important to me as well.  Sure, I don’t want to carry extra pounds if I don’t need to, but I also don’t want to compromise my enjoyment of less-than-ideal weather by making-do with an unreasonably lightweight shelter.  Just different priorities, I guess…so yeah, maybe I just need to take a trip down south and see what I can find on the shelves. 🤣

My newest tent is a Marmot Tungsten UL 1p. I like it a lot:

• free standing
• fairly light
• good head room (no inner in your face)
• easy setup
• nice for inner-only set up in hot weather
• found it on sale for a reasonable price, compared to premium brands

I don’t know how well it will withstand various types of weather, but I did recently take it for a few days in strong winds and it did fine. It’s too new for me to say much about durability.

However, for most of my trips, including a recent 2 weeks on the PCT in Northern California, I take my Tarptent Notch Li. It is the lightest thing I have, has proven itself in hail, super high winds, and serious downpours, and I just like its reliability. I love having two doors and two vestibules. I probably have 80+ nights on it now? But the inner is a bit saggy and in my face, and it’s a trekking pole tent, which you didn’t want.

I’m sure I missed some other requirement you had.

durability, longevity, protection from weather and livability are all higher in priority than sheer weight savings…

I agree. They are my first priorities also.

“I take my Tarptent Notch Li. It is the lightest thing I have, has proven itself in hail, super high winds, and serious downpours, and I just like its reliability.”

I don’t have one, but this is still the tent I’d buy if I were looking. Or a Durston solo trecking pole tent in dcf.

But the inner is a bit saggy and in my face, and it’s a trekking pole tent, which you didn’t want.

Correct.  I’m kind of over the trekking pole shelters; they work really well for some people, but I’m just not one of them.

I’m sure I missed some other requirement you had.

I don’t have one, but this is still the tent I’d buy if I were looking. Or a Durston solo trecking pole tent in dcf.

The end struts are one of my bigger obstacles, and the overall geometry.  In a lot of ways it would be a downsize from the Stratospire, which isn’t a problem in and of itself, but still not really an ideal move for me.  It looks like a really solid tent, but more minimal than livable; I guess that after more than a few days and nights of being stuck inside a nylon box in annoying weather, I just have some kind of tent-centric PTSD or something.  Or, maybe I’m just an indoor kitty and can’t admit it; either way, it’s a solid tent, just not for me.

On another note: I set a calendar reminder for the upcoming X-Dome 1 drop…and maybe I got something incorrect about the date, because it happened a day earlier than I thought the website indicated.  Evidently it was live at 9:00pm on the 6th, and not the 7th of August; I double-checked the date, but regardless, they were already sold out when I found the reminder email in my junk folder this morning.  So, that’s unfortunately no longer an option at all.

Lastly, I posted a WTB in the gear swap, because I’m going to look around for a Nallo or Anjan 2 and see how I like the sizing of that platform.  They’re a little bigger than I really want, but I like the vestibule arrangement a lot; I think it would really work well for me.  So, if anyone has or knows of one, hit me up; I don’t really want to jump into a brand-new Hilly without knowing if I’ll like it or not.

Actually-lastly: I did find a near-perfect winter tent for both myself and my dog.  Nortent Ly 1; it’s just about the right size in the sleeping area, and it has two chunky vestibules…each of which is just about the right size for a 145-lb. fluffball.  Looks well-made and it has an excessive number of guy points; the only drawback is that it’s just about 7 pounds, all-in…but when you hike with a small polar bear, you gain a pretty good chunk of load-bearing capacity.

Slingfin Portal 1p is a solid tent for high winds.  I used it on the Laugevegar in Iceland in 40-50mph winds and it was steady as can be.  You can get the heavy duty pole set and you are basically ready for anything. The only knocks are that it’s a little finnicky with attaching the fly and wrapping the rings around the poles.  It’ll take another minute or two and unless you are using the groundsheet, its not a fly first pitch.  I’d imagine being in the Pacific Northwest, you’ll be wanting a fly first pitch in which case it’s tough to beat the Durston X-Dome 1.5p.

Slingfin Portal 1p is a solid tent for high winds. I used it on the Laugevegar in Iceland in 40-50mph winds and it was steady as can be. You can get the heavy duty pole set and you are basically ready for anything.

There’s a 2P for sale on the forum right now, and the price is okay.  The heavier pole-set is an additional buy-in, but that’s not necessarily a deal-breaker.  I will say this, though: for the small amount of increase in weight, it’s hard to not consider the Portal 2 in relation to the Portal 1.

The only knocks are that it’s a little finnicky with attaching the fly and wrapping the rings around the poles. It’ll take another minute or two and unless you are using the groundsheet, its not a fly first pitch. I’d imagine being in the Pacific Northwest, you’ll be wanting a fly first pitch…

Yeah, I do want a fly/dry pitch: that point has been already been driven home to me multiple times.  It doesn’t rain in my area nearly as often as people think it does, but when it does…yeah, it’s serious work to either stay dry or get dry.  Ditto for snow; this is some of the wettest, heaviest snow I’ve ever encountered.  Great for building snowpersons; bad for everything else. 🤣

…in which case it’s tough to beat the Durston X-Dome 1.5p.

That may be true, but there’s a caveat: it’s pretty easy to beat something you can’t get.  I honestly have no idea how I missed the drop time/date…but I did, somehow.  So, gotta move on from that option, at least for the foreseeable future.

I know the op doesn’t want one but fwiw the xmid2p v2 and xmid1 v2 both sagged in my face but I have about 15 days on the xmid1 v3 now and it doesn’t.  It kicks @ss

I know the op doesn’t want one but fwiw the xmid2p v2 and xmid1 v2 both sagged in my face but I have about 15 days on the xmid1 v3 now and it doesn’t. It kicks @ss

Yeah, I’m stepping away from trekking pole support for awhile.  I do like the idea of it, and there’s nothing functionally wrong with the notion, but so far the execution and reality just isn’t for me. 🤷‍♂️

I feel you on the fabric-sag situation: that – and the general lack of over-face room – is one of the main reasons I don’t want to downsize into something like a Scarp or Akto.  I just don’t sleep well when there’s a fabric surface right over my face; I don’t mind it immediately adjacent to my head, but directly over my face seems to be slightly more effective than pure amphetamines at keeping me awake and paranoid.

In other news: I’m still narrowing my options…but for the last few days that process has been mostly focused on trying to see if retailers outside the US will ship here.  Results are not promising…and I’ve already had to mark a few manufacturers off the list.  Example: Barents makes a solid little lightweight tunnel that’s very close to being an all-mountain tent, big they don’t ship outside of Norway…so unless I can find a forwarder, that option is out.  Ditto for a few others; mostly stuff from Japan.  So, now I’m playing a game of not just “does it exist” but also “can I get my hands on one”…so I guess this is what I get for being picky.

So, this is fun: I crawled into a Hilleberg Soulo yesterday, and I discovered that it was actually more than long enough to fit me, lying down…but it’s not even close to being tall enough, sitting up.  My head was against the inner tent fabric at the very apex of the dome shape, and I wasn’t even sitting up straight.  Headroom in that tent is 37″/95cm, and I could probably get away with it if I had a better flapper-girl slouch, but my neck and shoulders were hurting after just a few minutes of hunching over to fit…so even though I’m only 5’10″/178cm, evidently most of that is in my torso.  I’ve kind of known that because of the speed penalty I get from my short little dwarf legs (I only get 20 fr/rnd) but I was honestly surprised at how minimal the headroom was, even at 95cm.  I might be able to fit inside something with 100cm, but I’d say that’s a bare minimum…so that really limits my choices.

That’s interesting. I too am 178cm and am long in the torso, and find that I fit in tents more like someone in the 6′ height range. Reminder, and I’m sure you know this, sitting on a 2 or 3″ pad will make matters worse!

Wonder if you’ve looked at Henry’s latest 1P offering:

https://www.tarptent.com/product/arcdome-1/#tab-id-2

That’s interesting. I too am 178cm and am long in the torso, and find that I fit in tents more like someone in the 6′ height range. Reminder, and I’m sure you know this, sitting on a 2 or 3″ pad will make matters worse!

Yeah, we didn’t even try a 3″ pad after I sat upright in the Soulo and discovered the absence of Max Headroom.  Kneeling was infinitely worse: even when I was hunched over, I had gained so much height from my legs being tucked under me that I basically couldn’t move around in the tent at all.  It makes sense, because that particular tent is less of an accommodation and more of a shelter that you use to not-die overnight

Wonder if you’ve looked at Henry’s latest 1P offering…

I have.  I’m not sure how I feel about it, on many fronts.  I do like the novelty of the design, but the small part of the inner tent that clips back into the vestibule space is kind of odd; it’s too small to be of much use inside, and it limits the use of the deepest part of the vestibule.  I’d rather have that space outside the tent entirely; that would give me a place for the pack, snowshoes, wet gear, boots, a dog, loot boxes or whatever else, and still have both a cooking area and a travel path.  As-is, it looks awkward and cramped…but I could be wrong about that.

What I’m not wrong about is the white/white color scheme; that, I actively dislike.  I’ve been in tents with similar colors before and they’re insanely bright and harsh-feeling inside.  I get why the manufacturers have to do this – fabric constraints – but it’s definitely not a comfortable arrangement for me.  And that kind of sucks, because I really want to like that tent; if they had a non-funky vestibule version, I’d probably give it a shot…if it was available, at least.  Currently sold out, I think.

It’s a given that no tent will answer to all of my wishes. as such I mentally list the most important things for me that I want in a tent, in order of descending importance. For example, for me,

–bombproof

–lightweight

–double wall

–affordability

and after these,

–ease of set up

–living space (sleeping space since I don’t spend much time in a tent

–colo

etc etc

I’m 5’9″ and have never had an issue with tent walls sagging into my face, so I’m lucky.

In any case, everyone will have a different list depending on where they hike and in what sesason.. I’m uncertain if Bonzo is looking for a three or four person tent, with or without his dog. He may need two tents for different scenarios. that’s simply the reality. there is no ‘lightweight solo tent good for four seasons with my dog in chartreuse that’s wallet friendly’. In the end I compromise on the lower level demands and adjust my expectations. and learn to live with some minor inconveniences.

as @jscott points out – everything is a compromise weighted in one direction or another. Trick is knowing what compromises you can live with, and those you can’t.

Really, a person “needs” at least two tents. No one tent will do it all. Really, there is no such thing as a “four season” tent. A “true” four season tent is really a one season tent (ie, winter/extreme conditions), and is not especially suitable for milder conditions.

So really we need, at least, a 3 season tent, and then something that can handle more extreme conditions, and is probably a double wall.

Tent makers rejoice…

It’s a given that no tent will answer to all of my wishes.

Depends on one’s list of wishes, I guess; if it’s a simple and short list, the chances of majority/complete address could be high.  Regardless, you make a good point: most of this is an exercise in compromise.

I’m uncertain if Bonzo is looking for a three or four person tent, with or without his dog. He may need two tents for different scenarios. that’s simply the reality.

Solo, no dog, all-mountain/all-season: that’s really the shortest list.  And yes, you’re correct: different tents are likely, given different scenarios…but I’m trying to minimize that count, regardless.

there is no ‘lightweight solo tent good for four seasons with my dog in chartreuse that’s wallet friendly’.

Unless there is, because I’ve seen more than one person get a piece of gear that ticks literally every one of their requirements.  Problem is, that’s happenstance: it’s as likely to occur as it is to never occur.  So, the reality is – yet again – compromise.  What’s got me bound up in paralysis isn’t the inherent compromise, though; it’s that the more I look, the more hidden options I keep finding.  I had no idea that the world of tents – even niche tents – was so large.

Really, a person “needs” at least two tents. No one tent will do it all.

True both in concept and reality…but I’m still trying to keep my Stuff Tally as low as possible.  I don’t want to re-acquire more things after working so hard to declutter myself.

Really, there is no such thing as a “four season” tent. A “true” four season tent is really a one season tent (ie, winter/extreme conditions), and is not especially suitable for milder conditions.

Now that I can’t argue with: I’ve long said that a four-season tent is really a one-season tent…but it’s interesting to me, how often that doesn’t need to be true: use good materials, address venting, and build for both precipitation and rain, and you have a really good shot at making a tent that does most everything.  And here’s the rub: we used to have those… but I don’t see the term “all-mountain” used very often anymore.  I don’t know it for sure, but I think those do-all designs went somewhat by the wayside (in the US at least) in favor of tents that prioritized specific goals – weight, cost, weather-handling, aesthetics, whatevs – in lieu of general suitability.

All that said, I’ve done my best to really work though what I think I want and get down to what I actually need…and that’s yielded some decent clarity: I need robust 1.5/2P, rated for winter, with good ventilation options and a fully separate pole set.  Also, I’d like to have a single entry, a vestibule that’s friendly for cooking, and enough headroom to not feel claustrophobic.  That’s really about it, and as such, I think I have options: I’ve thought very hard about a Nallo 2, or something in that bracket.  It’s a hard combination to beat, even if it’s not perfect.

Maybe it’s starting to be a DIY tent project?

I’ve never had perfect any type gear. I get the primary features I want, and then I adjust to the gear I have.  A friend of mine always hikes with her Hilleberg (not sure what model). It is heavier, takes up a lot of footprint even with a 1p, and when it’s wet, it stays wet – and heavy – for hours. So we always have to stop and dry out her tent which can take a long time. But she really likes it, especially the big vestibule and it does keep her dry and warm and can withstand about any storm.

Let us know what you decide and how it works out!

Yep, Bonzo, for me light weight is second on my list after bombproof. there’s no way that I would haul a winter tent out with me during the height of summer, or early spring or late fall. But that’s me! Plus, I don’t hike with a dog. Horses for courses. “bombproof” in summer should go without saying if you carry a winter tent in summer. and possibly interior space as well. So if a self supporting winter tent for year round is what you’ve decided on, you should have plenty of options.

By the way, I’m with Bonzo on wanting to reduce “stuff”. But stuff that I actually use for good reason because it’s appropriate isn’t “stuff” in my book. I have a big ol’ down puffy that I only use 4 months out the year for the most part. But I need and use it in those winter conditions. as soon as this ends, the big ol’ down puffy will become ‘stuff’ that I get rid of.

Maybe it’s starting to be a DIY tent project?

It’s been close to that for awhile, to be honest.  If I could take my old Clip Flashlight and give it 20% more vestibule space and 320% more storm-worthiness, I’d probably be done in one.  However, there are a couple of very slight obstacles to that goal:

1. I don’t have a sewing machine.
2. I don’t know how to work a sewing machine.
3. I know slightly less about tent design and manufacturing than I know about the transitive verb cases of Pirahã.

If I thought I could accomplish the goal with some serious DIY effort, I’d do so…but when I’m at my most reasonable, I don’t think I can pull that off.  I think there would be a STEEP learning curve…and while that kind of challenge usually entices me, in this case it seems like a bit much to attempt right out of the gate.

I’ve never had perfect any type gear.

I have, from time to time.  It’s not common, but it happens…but again, I think it’s happenstance.

Yep, Bonzo, for me light weight is second on my list after bombproof. there’s no way that I would haul a winter tent out with me during the height of summer, or early spring or late fall.

I would, but that’s just because I can find harsh weather whenever I like; I’m fortunate, that way.  But you make a solid point; use the appropriate tool for the job.

Plus, I don’t hike with a dog.

I don’t always do that, either…so when I do, it’s a different goal that I’ll also need to address in the future.  And that’s gonna be a challenge, because the pupper in question is a pretty stout piece of work.  She needs a vestibule of her own and a livestock-dog-proof sleeping pad; something that’ll take the hit from her stupidly-destructive nails.  Maybe something with a sacrificial kevlar shell.

But stuff that I actually use for good reason because it’s appropriate isn’t “stuff” in my book.

That’s well-said.  If it truly has a use and if it gets used, then it has a place…but if not: it needs to go to someone that will give it a good home.

So…all of that said: I found a couple of good prices on a Nallo, so I might give one a shot.  I haven’t committed to it, but at some point I’m gonna have to just take a stab at this and see how it goes.

Bonzo, I’m like you and really like dome tents because they seem to have much better head room and just invite me to want to use it more.

I’ve used the portal 1 and 2 before. One thing people don’t realize is that the inner actually angles out. So it’s wider at the ceiling than the floor. This gives the perception of a much larger area in my opinion.

Just about everything you said about considering different attributes in tents is exactly how I feel as well. Also, all my backpacking has mostly been in Washington.

I’ve come to the conclusion, that there is no perfect tent. The reason is because I personally want the strength of a Hillebrerg Niak at the weight of an X Dome. Can’t have that.

I’ve been very curious about when you look at tents like the X Dome, if you change certain attributes out, how it would affect the weight. Like, if everything was 20D poly or using heavier fiber poles, etc.. I’m curious because as soon as you change those attributes, I’m sure the attribute so many of us care about ( weight ) will change. At that point, what do we as consumers consider an “acceptable” weight to make it something we want to buy.

For instance, I think the perfect dome tent would be:

• X Dome style ( so fly first and not having to stake out vestibules )
• DCF 0.75 fly and 1.0 floor. I would like to use this in any situation. Andrew Skurkas video in Alaska a few years back proved that 0.5 isn’t strong enough for a hail storm.
• Option for aluminum pole OR a heavier fiber pole. The fiber pole ( 3.9mm I think? ) I’ve experienced on the Rainbow Li and X Dome don’t give me confidence. Maybe I’m wrong, but it’s maybe the perception of coming from an aluminum pole.
• Inner angles out like the portal

But if that tent weighs 3 lbs for a 2p tent, do I consider it better than the X Dome poly 2P at 2.7? Me personally, yes if it has that heavier dcf and with the aluminum poles.

Anyways, I think this is tangential to the topic of this thread so I apologize for that.

I also sometimes think I should just use the tent I want to without worrying too much about weight. That would be the Niak. If I literally don’t carry .5 liters of water it would make up the difference.

You have some excellent points, Joey, especially regarding the weight vs. durability quandary.  However, I’m gonna focus on the following one, because I think you’re dead on the money with it:

I also sometimes think I should just use the tent I want to without worrying too much about weight. That would be the Niak. If I literally don’t carry .5 liters of water it would make up the difference.

I’m with you 1000% on this…and not just because I’ve been running myself in circles for weeks looking for a tent with the strength of a Nammatj and the weight of a nightingale’s sigh, when I could have picked literally anything I wanted and just left my heavy-ass 6×9 camera at home.  Granted, I don’t want to carry extra weight if I don’t have to, but I’ve come to realize that I’ve been over-emphasizing that factor’s importance.  Aside from the aforementioned brick of a camera, there are SO MANY ways to trim the fat from my overall load.  Thus, what I should have been emphasizing during the selection process are the overall livability, ease of storm pitching, construction and material quality of the tent…and after sorting all of those out for any given option that appeals, considering the weight and size.  I mean, if the tent doesn’t pass all of those checks then it doesn’t matter what it weighs because I won’t be using it.

So, where does that leave me?  Probably with something in the realm of a Nallo 2, because most of the smaller 2P domes are including a second door and vestibule that I don’t need.  Most of the 1P domes are simply too small and cramped; ditto for 1P tunnels.  So, it’s either the rare 1P dome that isn’t actually just a slightly porcine bivy – think: Nortent Vern 1, the small Big Sky Chinook, etc – or a 2P tunnel.

On that note: I’d be tempted to try either of those domes I just mentioned…but I’d like to know a bit more about them before I commit.  Seems hard to find solid, apples-to-apples info on them…and in the case of the Chinook, I can’t even figure out what shape the interior and vestibule is.

Bonzo, I hope you are getting some enjoyment out of your tent search…new gear hunts should be exciting!

A question- you said you were looking for a 4 season-ish tent? How hot does it get where you camp? 2 doors can help with ventilation and cooling thing down on warm days. Tho I get that 2 vestibules tends to mean smaller ones, and you want a large one. A few tents give you adjustable vestibule size.

Cheers

Bonzo, I hope you are getting some enjoyment out of your tent search…new gear hunts should be exciting!

I’m having some fun with it, for sure, but the bigger part of the enjoyment is the education.  I’ve learned a LOT about tents in the last few weeks, and it’s been very eye-opening, seeing how other parts of the planet prioritize different qualities, features, etc.

A question- you said you were looking for a 4 season-ish tent? How hot does it get where you camp?

Highest I’ve seen is 34°C/93°F, but that’s at sea level where I live, and it’s rare.  Most often, it doesn’t get above 29°C/84°, and if you go up a few hundred meters, you’ll be in the low 20’s/70’s.  Right now, up in the mountains at about 1500m/5000′, it’s about 10°C/50°F, and it’s the hottest part of the year.  So, it’s easier to be cool than warm, here…unless I go camping, in which case the weather will somehow be awful, no matter what.

2 doors can help with ventilation and cooling thing down on warm days. Tho I get that 2 vestibules tends to mean smaller ones, and you want a large one. A few tents give you adjustable vestibule size.

Yeah, that’s the big upside to a dome or a transverse tunnel: that flow-through ventilation is awesome.  So, on that line: if I have two decently-sized vestibules instead of a single large one, I just have to split up my space usage and find a way to keep everything where I want it…and I have to figure out a tent that has that kind of configuration and that also doesn’t just go way overboard on weight.  And I know I just talked about weight not being at the top of the list, but twin-door domes can easily creep up into the 3+kg range, and that’s getting really heavy for a solo tent.  So, I’d look more at a side-door tunnel like a SlingFin 2Lite, or something like a wishbone dome; Helm 2, etc.  But I haven’t really been looking at those, so…here I go again, back down the rabbit hole. 🤣

So, I’d look more at a side-door tunnel like a SlingFin 2Lite, or something like a wishbone dome; Helm 2, etc.  But I haven’t really been looking at those, so…here I go again, back down the rabbit hole. 🤣

Or a Scarp?….but then there’s the packing it vertically 😁. (Doesn’t bother me)

Or a Scarp?

I actually looked at a Scarp the other day; I randomly happened across one at a campsite that I was passing.  The owner was very nice and gave me a full tour…but it felt like that inner canopy fabric was directly on top of my face.  I could probably be forcibly coerced into dealing with the long/vertical package, but that low height over the head was really getting to me.  And that sucks, because it’s a nice little tent, otherwise!