Thinking about upgrading Jetboil Minimo to Soto Windmaster. Good idea?

Earlier this year I got a Soto Windmaster to replace my elderly Jetboil PCS.

The Soto stove is superior in performance and build quality to the JB stove.  I had a Minimo for a couple of weeks 2 years ago, but sold it on, as the build quality/wobblyness didn’t inspire confidence.

I tested the stove with various pots: 3 Ti and the Jetboil pot

What I found was, that using the Windmaster, with the Jetboil pot consistently took not much more than  half the the time to boil than any of the Ti pots. With the JB pot, 2 cups took c2 minutes to boil vs c4 mins for the  Ti pots.

I found a thread on here where a chap had cut notches in his Jetboil pot base to bring his Soto Amicus stove  head closer to the pan and make the setup more stable. I did the same, and am very happy with the result. Everything inc a 100g cart fits in the JB pot with room for coffee and a folding spoon.

Using the Windmaster with the JB pan only saves c3 Oz, but it’s speed is more important to me than weight for my use.

I only use gas on weekends or overnighters and my main criteria is boil speed in these cases as I have very early starts and other duties for an Explorer Scout backpacking group. I also use it for work ( I’m outside most of the time).

For multiday trips I always use alcohol or Esbit with a cone and Ti pan as I find it’s lighter and easier to calculate fuel needs than using gas.

I’ve been using Windmaster for a long time.

3 minutes to boil a pint, with windscreen.  You still have to use a windscreen.

I think the Japanese engineering and manufacturing is good, more reliable.

It’s tall so you can easily reach the valve to turn on and off.  The piezo lighter is nice.

On the other hand, a BRS 3000 weighs 1 ounce.  $16 https://www.amazon.com/BRS-Outdoor-Camping-Portable-Ultralight/dp/B00NNMF70U/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1522768337&sr=8-1&keywords=brs+3000+stove You have to use it a couple times to verify it works because they have high failure rate initially.

David R., your idea is a fine one!  My lightest weight kit included a Windmaster and SnowPeak Trek 900 ti pot.  The pot comfortably holds a small fuel canister, stove, matches, and small square of absorbent towel.  I can get 9-10 meals (freeze-dried food and coffee or tea) out of a canister, as long as I don’t dump it duh.  The Jetboil system is probably more efficient AS LONG AS IT IS PROTECTED FROM ANY WIND.  I’m done dealing with wind and really like the Soto stove.  Have fun!

Great, thank you all for the feedback.  This gives me some comfort that it may be a reasonable upgrade over my existing canister stove.  I’m also doing some research on alcohol stove systems.  Like the idea of the low weight and not wasting butane cans, but not sure I’m sold on the long boils times and slightly fussier setup.  Hm…

“long boils times and slightly fussier setup”

exactly – I tried esbit and alcohol, just not worth the hassle, butane so easy – but a lot of people like it

for longer trips you lose the weight advantage because the actual fuel is about twice as heavy

“…because they have high failure rate initially” Jerry, I think your statement about the BRS-3000T stove is a bit misleading. More accurate would be something like some or a few or the occasional one will fail. And those reported have had more than just an initial failure rate, as they remained in failure mode. It appears that the ones that failed were used with a high flame setting, something that shouldn’t be done anyway (due to the waste of fuel). The vast majority of those stoves seem to work just fine if used in a sensible manner. Sure, they aren’t the most macho stoves, but they are cheap, and they are very small and lightweight.

The only problem that one of my friends has had with his BRS-3000T was that his wouldn’t work with an MSR Isopro canister. It’s something about the design of those canisters, where one must sometimes really screw the non-MSR stove or lantern onto it tightly. I’ve only had that issue with my Primus lantern, which works well with all other canister fuel brands.

thanks, better explanation

I think if you use the BRS 3000 a couple times successfully, then it’s probably fairly reliable after that

I’ve had other stoves/canisters fail, rarely

with any stove or canister, it’s probably a good idea to try it once before each trip

I fail to see how the SOTO Windmaster stove is a more efficient stove than the JB.

My heavier Brunton Crux canister-top stove has a very similar burner to the SOTO but still I need my windscreen for max efficiency.

What makes the SOTO so good in the wind??

I think that most canister stoves are similarly efficient, Windmaster the same as others

Heat exchanger like JB is a little more efficient but probably the heat exchanger weighs more than you’ll save in fuel

The shape of the burner on the Windmaster makes it a little better in the wind?  I find I still need a real windscreen.

The Windmaster has a raised lip above the burner element so it’s less susceptible to wind.

Hiking Jim’s blog has more details and performance tests. https://adventuresinstoving.blogspot.com/2016/11/the-soto-windmaster-worlds-lightest-gas.html

3 minutes to boil a pint, with windscreen.  You still have to use a windscreen.

Recommendations for a UL windscreen to use with the Soto Windmaster?  I’m sure I could cobble together some aluminum foil, but anything more elegant/durable?

My 2 cents: I’ve been using the Windmaster for the past 4 yrs I think, and haven’t really needed any windscreen. I confess I haven’t used it during a typhoon, however it’s been through some windy evenings. Pretty sure it’s less efficient in wind however I am impressed by the fact that wind will not blow it out.

For a durable wind screen, you might consider titanium foil. 2 sq. ft. of .005″ foil from Titanium Goat will work well, and you will have enough foil for perhaps 2 wind screens.

My favorite part of this discussion is that you are calling the transition to a simpler and less expensive product an “upgrade”.

Awesome.

“Like the idea of the low weight and not wasting butane cans”

You’ll waste less metal (new flash: steel is not very energy-intensive to refine and iron ore is extremely common) and spend less money if you buy your isobutane / butane-propane mix in 450-gram canisters and refill 100-gram canisters using the G-works Gas Saver (about $30).  Doing so

• avoids all those partial canisters laying around in your gear box
• keeps the vapor pressure at a original levels
• lets you do custom fills (why bring 100 grams of fuel on an overnight if you only need 30?)

A very lightweight, low-cost approach with very good performance would be:

A BRS-3000T (0.9 ounces, $14, but wait till I see them at $11 and then stock up) and a

A Sterno Inferno HX pot ($25 on Amazon) is 4.5 ounces when you’ve tossed everything but the HX pot itself (use a bit of aluminum foil or some other lightweight lid), or 3.9 ounces if you take the handles off.  The volume markings on mine are way off, but it holds a pint with lots of freeboard.  2-1/2 cups is as much I would put in it, and then only on a stable, flat surface.

An HX pot AND stove for 4.8 ounces and $36.

David T–In your optimization model, if you dial down price sensitivity and dial up 1) durability, 2) wind resistance, and 3) satisfaction of use, do you arrive at the same product recommendations?  I know these are tricky trade-offs and everyone’s top priorities are different.  Basically I want my cook system to be light, efficient, and a joy to use in a variety of weather conditions; and am willing to sacrifice on price to solve the equation.

Have you looked at the Soto Amicus? Pretty much the same thing as the Windmaster but $30-35 cheaper, and you don’t have to fiddle (and probably lose) the pot supports.

The Amicus appears to be popular among PCT hikers, but I read a few reviews on Reddit where hikers said they would have rather had the Windmaster instead.  Higher initial cost but better fuel efficiency.  However, I do like the design of fixed pot supports that can’t be lost.

The Amicus is a good burner, and the fixed potstand potstand is an advantage.

I’m using the 4 way potstand on my Windmaster. It’s very solid. I prefer it.

But the Windmaster regulator is awesome. Basically gas output is good all the way to empty. When it just stops dead. No limping along at low power for the last 20% of the cartridge capacity like unregulated stoves. ( The Amicus is unregulated).

Last week with our Scout group, we camped in damp snowy conditions just above freezing, a light wind.   My Windmaster/JB pan setup outperformed the Scouts standard Jetboil Flashes by a big margin – a 1/3rd of the time to boil.

Both Soto models are better than the Optimus (Brunton) Crux. The design, wind performance and engineering quality.

Hi David T, I like your setup with the Sterno Inferno HX pot but with one question. Does the BRT-3000T fit inside the HX fins on the pot?

Robert, I think that our pal David was just guessing. The pot supports of the BRS-3000T will indeed slip inside the HX fins of the Inferno pot, but only if you bend the arms to aim precisely toward the center. It’s a bit of a fiddle to get the pot onto the stove just right. But the downside of all this is that the pot will be positioned too close to the stove’s burner head, thereby quenching the flame if it is turned up more than minimal. This was the problem with Josh Leavitt’s original idea of using the BRS-3000T with a Jetboil pot. I was able to solve this by creating a pot riser disk “thingy” to effectively raise the pot about 1/2 inch higher above the stove burner head. This happened to be a bull’s eye (by chance). But it only works with the Jetboil pot, which has the right dimensions.  My pot riser disk will happen to also fit inside the Inferno pot, but it ends up positioning the pot about 1/4 inch too high above the BRS burner head. There is, in fact, one stove that is a match made in heaven for this application – the Fire Maple FMS-300T Hornet (also sold as the Ion by Olicamp here in the U.S.). To make it work with the Inferno I had to bend the pot support arms as mentioned above. Then when placing the pot onto that stove I need to manually lift the 3 support arms a bit to clear the bottom opening of the HX fins. Once it’s on, it’s a very stable arrangement. Removing the pot from the stove is easy, as the support arms swing up and out of the way. Obviously, you have to let the stove cool before placing the pot to do water for your second cup of coffee. The good part about the FMS-300T stove is that it weighs just 1.7 oz. The downside is that it costs $50. Fire Maple makes high quality stoves, and the BRS-3000T is a lower quality knock-off of the Hornet. Both are made in China, which apparently doesn’t care about patents or intellectual rights.

So this whole concept comes with a conundrum – do you want to save money on the pot, or on the stove? I have a pal that is thinking of trying an Olicamp XTS pot with a heat exchanger with his BRS-3000T stove. For my money, I’m very happy with my BRS-3000T and JB Sol pot (with the pot riser disk). Whatever approach you take, just be sure to take note of the distance from the stove burner head to the bottom of the pot. This is usually designed for a reason, but using a stove with a heat exchanger pot alters the air flow to the stove. Laws of physics enter into the MYOG equation, and we must be aware of these and maybe compensate somehow.

Thanks for the info. I was intrigued with using the BRT-3000T with an HX pot but that sounds like more fiddling than I care to do. I just started using the BRT-3000t with the 700ml Torks wide pot and wind screen. That is a good setup too weighing in just over 4 ounces.