The opposite of a vest?

[Chris]

I don’t understand vests (or hybrid clothing that has greater insulation and/or wind protection in the chest than the arms). I’m curious to what extent this is just my own weird issue.

I’ve seen people say that a vest will keep your core warm, and that allows warmer blood to circulate to your arms. I just don’t find that to work in real life. What happens instead is that I sweat out the core and my arms freeze.

Granted, I run very hot almost everywhere except my hands, which run cold.

To balance that out, in the winter I’m often wearing a mesh baselayer with some kind of outer full-zip layer (wind shirt or insulation as needed), with the zip nearly all the way open. So my torso is basically open to the air to try to avoid overheating, and then my arms are covered (and hands in gloves) to keep them warm.

So to me, an effective top for active use in the winter would be extremely thin (or just mesh) through the torso and in the armpit area, and then have insulation / wind blocking on the rest of the arms all the way to the wrists.

But pretty much every hybrid design I’ve come across that’s marketed for active use has the opposite approach – extra insulation and/or wind protection in the torso.

I know I’m probably at the extreme end of the spectrum in terms of running hot, but I think from a biological perspective pretty much everyone’s torso is going to be warmer than their extremities. So the default approach to hybrid active tops just doesn’t make sense to me. But do others find them useful?

[Atif Khan]

Simple solution: cycling arm warmers.

[Mole J]

I definitely don’t find insulated vests particularly useful. If I’m cold I want my shoulders and upper arms warmed before anything.

I used to have these, but because they were very well insulated, I found them too much the other way.
https://www.sportpursuit.com/mens-torres-sleeves-black

I think I would find something like this more useful in a technical fabric, also a good addition to a quilt.

[Bill Budney]

There is the LightheartGear Hoodie Pack Cover. Perhaps made in some kind of fleece (and no pack cover)?

For experimentation, a simple pattern could be cut from a fleece blanket, perhaps with KamSnaps for closure.

[Matthew / BPL]

Vests have never made sense to me in the backcountry because I feel like I am dumping heat from my armpits and shoulders. I do like the idea of Montbell’s down tee but at that point it just makes sense to me to have the full sleeves of a jacket for a very modest increase in weight.

[Terran Terran]

Usually by the time I put a light vest on, the rest of my body is fairly well insulated. I more or less add insulation evenly.  It’s usually around 10*f below freezing. Then I still use a light jacket. I vent through my underarms feeling less clammy than otherwise with a heavier jacket. I can unzip it to vent as well. My arms may still feel a bit of the cold, but warm up if I’m moving them around. I can add a beanie and gloves, but often don’t need them. My hands are often in and out of my pockets to regulate. I find the extra flexibility worth it.
Watching a recent video comparing sleeping bags to quilts with thermal imagery peaked my interest. My cell phone died and in my search for a new one, I saw several with thermal imaging. While they seemed gimmicky and I didn’t buy one, I am considering a separate purchase. Several times sitting in the cold, I’ve tried to pinpoint where I need the extra insulation or where I could use less. Doing a whole body approach compared to just buying a heavier jacket.

[Jon Fong / Flat Cat Gear]

look up “Shrug” under fashion.  they cover your arms but barely the torso.  I always thought that someone should make raingear like this: cover your arms and shoulders with waterproof materail and the rest could be DWR coated, breathable fabric or something.

[Dustin V]

JacksRBetter sells down sleeves to pair with their wearable quilts. I thought about grabbing them to go with a sleeping bag I have that converts to a giant vest, because like others here I don’t really like having less insulation on my arms.

And now, I have a word to put to the strange garment my daughter puts into the fine washables load. Thank you, Jon!

[Terran Terran]

JRB

[Jerry Adams]

Mole J would make a good aragorn

I like vests.  I prefer to have my arms less constrained.

Definitely something that works for some people but not others.

[Chris]

Thanks for the suggestions! I had actually scouted up shrugs a while back on amazon, but they all seemed to be thin, typically marketed as “cooling”, and generally one size for women. I have really long arms and was looking for something more substantial for heating, so I dropped that thread. Maybe I should rummage around for a deal on some beat up fleece tops and cut them into a shrug.

I also have some sun protection arm sleeves but have never really been impressed with them as insulation. I usually only wear them for cut protection in orienteering & off-trail events.

The cycling arm warmers look more promising! Maybe if I size up and put them over a mesh layer that would help balance things out.

It still seems odd that there’s not more of a market for active/hybrid pieces with this approach.

[Bill Budney]

Maybe it’s just me, but I see ponchos/shrugs/hoods/sleeves and vests as two different things for different use cases. They both serve independent purposes.

There certainly is some room in the (small) cottage market for innovation in active garments. Timmermade constantly pushes the SOTA forward with fresh ideas.

I like Jon’s hybrid hood, shoulders, and top of sleeves idea. I cut open my ponchos in front, so that I can wear them like those shrug things. Air flows in at the chest and out through the sides, which works great in moderate weather. Adding zoned fabrics would be a nice extension.

[Thom]

Mark Verber used alpha direct fabric as a shawl . Magnets to hold in place . Very versatile and reasonable cheep .
Thom

[TrevSco]

https://www.cryeprecision.com/HalfJak-2-0

[Paul Hatfield]

I think your perception of what is available on the market is somewhat off. It’s common now for insulated tops to have equal weight insulation on both the chest and front/outside of the arms, and less insulation on the back of the torso and under the arms. I think Patagonia, Black Diamond, Rab have tops like this.

It’s common for cold weather cycling jackets to be insulated in a similar way. Gore Wear even makes a base layer with wind-blocking material distributed like that.

Vests are popular with cyclists. But arm warmers are too. As I mentioned in another thread, I think vests are a good idea indoors where there is no wind. But outdoors where there is wind, I’m not a fan.

[Chris]

Sorry, I may not have been clear. I’m aware of the type of tops you describe that have equal insulation on the chest and outside of arms and less on the backs and under the arms (e.g., Nano Air Light Hybrid). But I’m not really aware of tops that have LESS (or zero) insulation on the torso compared to the arms. (That’s what I was going for with the ‘opposite of a vest’)

I’m not part of the cycling world, so I’ll have to check what’s going over there! It makes sense that they might be more focused on this type of coverage.

[todd]

The above-mentioned Montbell Down T is a favorite of mine.  A little lighter than a comparable full jacket, and more than warm enough for my shoulders, yet won’t overheat me in a tad warmer temps.

[Paul Hatfield]

Hi Chris…

To clarify, I’m not aware of any cycling jackets with thicker insulation on the arms than on the chest.

But you can find separate arm warmers which range from very lightweight sun sleeves to thicker, more insulating arm warmers. The problem as you go thicker is keeping the fabric stretchy enough to stay up on your arms, a problem that sleeves on jackets, being attached to the jacket at the top, do not have.

[Terran Terran]

https://www.yamatomichi.com/en/products/light-alpha-armsleeves

[Justin W]

I happen to like a front only insulated vest for colder temps, like 10* F and colder, and I’ve found that it does help to keep the rest of me warmer. Though my arms can get a bit chilly at times, they never quite get cold, cold.  But it might be because of my build and ethnicity.  I’m a shade under 5′ 7″ with a short torso, but barrel chest, shortish arms, medium, naturally somewhat muscular build with a little extra fat, and of all northern Euro descent (Celtic slightly predominant with rest Germanic).  I run warm in general.

I only like the front of the vest insulated, because no matter what I do in whatever conditions, when I’m wearing a backpack, my back gets hot and sweaty and so I try to minimize that.  Years back I made a front only insulated vest with the lightest Apex Climashield encased in very breathable fabric, and tested in some conditions that applied to the above.  The vest was only a few ounces or so, I think.  There wasn’t even any back fabric, let alone insulation. Just a couple of stretchy straps to help hold it in place.

Anyways, it worked well for me in those conditions.

[Author]

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