The new Golite went live today

Except for the poncho and umbrella, everything looks pretty ho hum. Let’s face it, competition has gotten fierce over the past 10 years.

Golite had a store in Anthem, AZ, which is on the extreme Northern end of Metro Phoenix. Not a good spot to attract some of the 4 million potential buyers who reside in The Valley. To add to it the store was located in the back of an outlet mall.  And they WOULD NOT accept cash. Good thing I had my debit card on me when I went there to get my Chrome Dome..

Maybe I am wrong but did Go lite not file for bankruptcy and owe a load of creditors.

No cuben fiber = can’t compete with other companies that are more up to date (HMG, ZPacks, etc.).

This stuff was UL maybe around 2007, but doesn’t meet contemporary standards.

Nothing against silnylon, but Golite will never be the innovative company it once was.  They are about 10 years behind the curve.

The Chrome Dome / silver brolly isn’t even a Golite / MTC product. It’s the Swing Liteflex made by Euroschirm / Birdiepal and can be bought now without a logo for $4 less than Coup is planning to sell his when they come into stock next week. Gossamer Gear, Campmor and Campsaver all have them in stock. At $25 I was happy to buy one. At $49 or $45, not so much.

In all of the spam email I’ve received from Coup during the MTC launch, not once has he addressed how or if he ever intends to make good on the debts incurred when he ran Golite into the ground. That’s the elephant in the corner of the room which would still prevent me from giving MTC any money, even if the products were new and improved. Having a ‘meh’ product line just tells me it’s still all about him, not understanding today’s customers’ actual needs and wants.

Removed double post

It seems a bit off topic, but I’m not too sure (probably because I don’t know the history) why people keep on insisting MTC pay off GoLite’s debt. The entire point of corporation law is to limit liability (well, at least it is here in Aus). Whilst I agree that, in general, those laws have swung too far in favour of the corporations (and their owners), I do support parts of those laws (like being able to move on and start again).

I can’t comment on ethical issues, as I’m not aware of them. But if it was just a “simple” case of “business failed, oops, let me start again with a new business” then I’m not sure what the problem is.

Couple of things to keep in mind. Businesses go down the drain every single day. Sometimes a company will try to roll with surges in demand, then suddenly realize that their plan was not scalable. It happens.

As far as the moral or ethical arguments, keep this in mind too. Coup cannot come out and, through MTC, say anything about the debts of Golite. This, along with factors such as using the same suppliers/vendors under the same contracts or accounts, shifting equipment from one business to the other, and using the new business’s funds to pay off any debts from the other company, will trip the “alter ego” wire. If MTC in any way is operated as to appear that it is at all associated with Golite, anyone with a claim against Golite may attempt to recover from MTC.

However, I agree… Terrible names.

That’s fair. I suppose what gets me is that these product are exactly the same as the Golite predecessors, just with different names and a fugly logo, down to material specification, colours, dimensions and weights. So how he skirts the “alter ego” clause is beyond me.

My personal choice is to neither invest in, nor purchase from, MTC. I’d like to support a local business. But not this guy.

Mo,

I have been thinking of your comment  :

“I can’t comment on ethical issues, as I’m not aware of them. But if it was just a “simple” case of “business failed, oops, let me start again with a new business” then I’m not sure what the problem is.”

Possibly some here had in mind that several suppliers as well as real estate agents were owed thousands,  hundreds of thousands and in one case over $1 million.

http://dytbxbqvpce4z.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/GoLiteBankruptcy01.pdf

What I am thinking is that if you were one of those creditors maybe “you could see the problem”.

Two years after I left a place I worked for, for over 20 years, the business went bankrupt leaving also about $5 millions in debt.

Some of the money was owed to other shopkeepers that I knew personally because of close business ties with them. Whilst  they were going bankrupt the owners of the place I worked for were still flying about in business class and dining in very expensive restaurants .

I know for a fact that at least some of those creditors did not think : oops , let them start again…

I picked up a Big Agnes Yahmonite (re-branded Shangrila-3) from campsaver when they were in stock with a 20% coupon for less than 250$. I use it for family backpacking with my wife and two little ones, and have wanted to recommend this tent highly to others, but they have been unavailable. Although I agree that some of these original Golite designs are now outdated, I can’t find any other 53oz 55 sq ft shelters (with a bug nest) for around $300. (The Rainshadow 2 comes pretty close). Let me know if I’m wrong but I think this is still a pretty good deal for a bombproof and spacious shelter.

“No cuben fiber = can’t compete with other companies that are more up to date (HMG, ZPacks, etc.).”

Their 50 liter pack is $150 and made with a very durable fabric. It looks like they are going for good and affordable rather than premium and expensive.

If the old names belong to the creditors (and they still want rhyming names), they could do better than “chrome umbrella”.  How about the “Silver Chiller”?

Instead of “poncho tarp”, the “Escape Drape” or the “Omnipresent Ascent Tent”?

And could “Backpack Light 50L and Backpack Light 70L” just be the Jelly50 and Jelly70?  Or, if the Marmalade50 and Marmalade70, they could be a offered in a muted dark green (Jade), medium grey (Shade), light brown (Suede) and purple (NightShade).

Dave, i’m so jelly of your marketing talent/instinct ; )

But more seriously, i do agree, they could have done MUCH better with the names than they did.

“I picked up a Big Agnes Yahmonite (re-branded Shangrila-3) from campsaver when they were in stock with a 20% coupon for less than 250$.”
That was because BA took advantage of some stock the factory still had and just re-badged those Golite tents as their own.
I would not expect the same prices from the new stock from MyTrail.
Interesting,BTW, that the ShangriLa 5 is now the Pyramid 4

That IS a good weight and price on the poncho-tarp – competitive for what’s available on the market or even what it would cost in materials to MYOG.  I wish the site wasn’t so poorly designed – the pictures are there, but I have to wait to see them?!

You dont need cuben to be “competitive”

tarptent doesnt use cuben, Ula doesnt use cuben in their main packs, etc …

the benefits and downsides of cuben have been debated on BPL …

Folks will be just fine without it if they choose so

;)

Re the history … they were exciting when they started, because they were the first non-cottage player.  I think I still have one of their original catalogues somewhere, which Coup had written a message on.

I also like their naming convention, which if I remember correctly was from a kids reading book.

And Ray whatshisface wasn’t the pioneer he liked to make himself out to be – I have an Australian book on ultralight that precedes him by decades.

And Ray whatshisface wasn’t the pioneer he liked to make himself out to be – I have an Australian book on ultralight that precedes him by decades.

No, Ray wasn’t the original ultralight guy.  Heck, Kephart talks about his ultralight kit including a silk tarp (don’t touch it or water will come through) in Camping and Woodcraft (1916).  But Jardine helped popularize UL backpacking as we know it today.  Were all his ideas original?  No.  Are all of them good?  Well, they have served him well over thousands of miles and several decades.  (but you can now buy microelectronic blood cleaning wristbands from his website)  And others have benefited from them.  And while many have decided that a $600 cuben tent is a fantastic idea, he has continued making his own gear and teaching others how to do it with relatively inexpensive material.

I made my first few packs and quilts based off of Ray’s designs, because at the time there were no cottage manufacturers making any of this stuff.  When Go Lite came on the scene, it was one of the first opportunities that people could buy lightweight gear instead of making it themselves.  They served a great niche, but fell out of favor with Ray because they had to start making things heavier and more durable to appeal to a larger market.  But when they did that, they were now just as heavy as the regular market, so they lost their niche appeal and their identity.

The Internet has been the biggest benefit to ultralight. Coming into being about the same time as Ray’s book.

Those people who thought their GoLite items were collectibles must be a bit disappointed.

While cuben fiber is said to have some issues with abrasion, I really see no advantage to nylon for most applications given the hybrid fabrics on the market these days.  The only advantage in my view for nylon is the cost.  Perhaps I stand to be corrected/educated on this matter, though.  But these days I just buy all my stuff from ZPacks…they seem to have it figured out.  I see no reason to buy a silnylon tent when cuben options are 75% or 50% of the weight.  That is, assuming one can afford it.

@Ken

I am not disappointed at all that I stockpiled several pair of “collectible” Reed pants at their last warehouse sale. And that extra Roan Plateau parka that Coup put on sale (at a deep discount) 2 years ago. And let’s not forget about the wooden coat hangers that we got for 50 cents each when they closed the Boulder brick & mortar store (maybe not so much collectible, but at least high quality and cheap!). Then there were those boonie hats that were the lightest of the breed, and again, very cheap when they closed the store. I’m not sorry that I bought any of the GoLite items that I did (OK, maybe the SL-2 tent that I passed on to someone else).

I have the Golite 20 degree quilt. Got it for $160. It was probably a closeout, but there is nothing today that can compete with it, price wise. Even a full price it was competitive.

While Ray helped pioneer/popularize some of today’s ultralight methods, I think KT is right in saying that the internet has really taken ultralight to higher ground than Ray.  Part of that is Ray found what worked for him and has made very few changes to his kit since “The PCT Hiker’s Handbook” in 1991.  He is a bit of a type A fellow.

Clearly, cuben is lighter than silnylon and works very well.  But Ray has stuck with silnylon, and instead of engaging in protracted flame wars about his ideas (recently) he has retreated to his own corner of the internet, caters to those who like his methods, and is currently hiking the AT again (4th time I think).

Seems to be somewhat the mentality of lots of thru hikers.  They found the gear that works for them, and just use their gear to enable their outdoor experiences.  Would that I spent more time using my gear.

Always cool to see some new gear sourcing but is it just me or do the pack pockets seem way too short? A standard Aquafina bottle seems twice that tall and prone to falling out.

So how he skirts the “alter ego” clause is beyond me.

Stuart – this is because anyone is allowed to copy, so long as they do not misappropriate (take someone’s product and pass it as your own) or misrepresent (take your product and pass it off as someone else’s). If the Golite designs were patented (design patent likely), then making some basic changes to it would allow him to circumvent the protection.