Tent Stake Holding Power . . . Stake length? Or Shape? Or . . .

Use the BPL.com search function and search on this topic. Ryan Jordan did an exhaustive study on this topic. In short, the answer is both: shape and length.  My recollection is that MSR Groundhogs came out near if not at the top. No need for a recent review, the stakes have not changed nor have the forces that pull on tent guylines changed.

Bruce may be referring to this article.

https://backpackinglight.com/tent_stakes/

I think what you want to know is the soil conditions you will face. In soft ground, the MSR will hold a lot more than the titanium nails, but if the soil doesn’t allow you to drive them, then the nails may be good… Not familiar with the area.

Having compared several shapes in the 6″  and 8-9″ versions, the latter had more extra holding power than the few inches of difference would suggest.

( Y pegs/Easton tubular/nail pegs)

My choice for key pegs is for the 9 ” Easton or the 9″  Y type.

Some of my pegs :

Thanks for the replies, all.  The only problem with Ryan Jordan’s study is it is behind a paywall.  My basic membership doesn’t pay enough money to be able to read that article. :-(

I use mini groundhogs for less critical staking, and regular-sized groundhogs for critical staking.

It might not be possible where you’re going, but I always use titanium shepherd hook stakes and just find large rocks or pieces of wood to pile on top of each one. If it’s especially windy I use bigger rocks or just build a small cairn on top of each stake. Randomly redistribute the rocks/bits of wood when cleaning up camp the next day for better LNT karma.

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Sorry to hear that it is behind a paywall.  Depending on where you are in Scotland, the ground can be very hard or very soft.

I would take a mix of 8 inch Varga Nail pegs and 8 inch ground hogs.  You could also post the question on some of the UK forums.

My recollection of Scotland is that it was either granite and rocks or bog. You may need 3 sets of pegs/stakes to get through all the conditions so a selection including some parachutes for mice, small stuff sacks you can fill with small rocks.

Well,not to be contrary with general opinion, but I have found shepherds hooks to be sufficient in most conditions except deep snow or soft mud.

When in an unknown area, I usually carry extra stakes. In most cases, TECHNIQUE is more important than either length or width of the individual stake.

Note that the two stakes together act to reinforce each other. Two shepherds hooks weigh about .4oz, together. They act as a “claw” in the ground, grabbing a large amount of ground, vs either stake alone. However, they do not work so well in sand. Placing a small 5pound or 2kg rock on them, I have seen a couple tarps rip out before the stakes come loose. However, pulling them out the next morning is easy, one at a time. Using two nail stakes is over done, as is the “V”or “Y” stakes. Damage to the tarp happens in anycase. Personnaly, I prefer the tarp loosens a little and comes free rather than be destroyed in one night.

My choice for key pegs is for the 9 ” Easton or the 9″  Y type.

My preference too.

9” Easton stakes kept this very secure with wind gusts around 70 mph overnight.

9” Easton stakes kept this very secure with wind gusts around 70 mph overnight.

The big rocks probably help, too.  :)

In one of her recent videos, Dixie (Homemade Wanderlust) said she uses titanium skewers and if the weather looks bad, she used rocks for her through hikes.

Obviously there are places with stronger winds, but in those cases, I’d always be looking for rocks regardless of stake used.

A continued thanks, for all of your comments.  I like @jamesdmarco comment about it being better to have a tarp come loose than to rip.  Also like his recommendation of using two shepherd hooks.  Also like people’s recommendation about the 9″ easton, though I think I might try the 9″ Rota Locura over those.  Right now, I’m kind of thinking about taking four 9″ Rota Locura CF stakes, two of the non-ultralight Vargo Titanium Nail pegs, and then perhaps as many as 12 titanium shepherd hooks.  (My HMG Echo II system would need 12 stakes in a normal setup, so this would be an additional 4 stakes.)  But still thinking through it.

hollow nail stakes like Vargo are good.  Since they’re hollow, they have more surface area so they hold better, more friction.  MSR makes similar.  The 3rd and 4th from the left in Franco’s picture are hollow MSR stakes?

My Vargo hollow stakes have held really good, never bent.  A couple times they were very difficult to remove but eventually I worked them, dug them out.

“The 3rd and 4th from the left in Franco’s picture are hollow MSR stakes?”

Those are branded Easton .

The new version has a different head.

MSR does sell the Easton made stakes too :

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(MSR/Easton/MSR)

Photo from William K at trek-lite.com

When you are uncertain about ground conditions, 9″ always. Eastons or Groundhogs.

I was a fan of the Rutas, but some heads came off, and as they are carbon fiber, some broke too easily with sideways forces, exactly the time when you do not want to get up in the middle of the night to deal with a flapping tarp-

Vargo ultralight are thin where the hole is and more likely to break

Thanks for the continued replies!

@cameronm-aka-backstroke: were your Ruta stakes the first gen or the second gen? I understand that the head on the second gen (post-2017) has been modified. Also, did your’s break during ground insertion? Or did they break while in the ground, from wind force?

@retiredjerry: similar question. I’ve understood that people have had the Vargo ultralight titanium nail pegs break when hammering them. Are you (or others) aware of them breaking when in the ground? I wouldn’t ever hammer them. But, if the heads could snap on them, when in the ground, from just wind force, that would definitely be a negative for those.

Thanks!

A trick I used way back when I was in Scotland 40 years ago. In those days Vango tents came with very short [100mm]pegs in alloy or heavy steel pegs. Using doubled alloy pegs over a stick or spare tent peg to increase the holding power worked then, the same technique used with titanium skewers or “Y” stakes would probably work today and might be worth keeping in the back of your mind

My regular Varga stakes have not broke.  A couple times it got hammered into a root and I had a hell of a time getting it out.  And I’ve tried to go through rocks.

From reading on the internet I have heard the Varga ultralight breaks hammering it in.  Just looking at pictures the amount of metal remaining at the eye is small, so it would be easy to break,  I would think if you got it hammered in it would not break from wind force, much smaller.

When there is rock in the way and I can’t hammer it in completely, then I put a large rock on it if it’s windy.  A rock that is heavy to lift will hold the stake pretty good.

I think the Easton or MSR stakes would function similarly – big diameter without too much weight because its hollow, so there’s more friction against the ground.  I have read reports that the head can come off.  With the Vargo stakes, they put a hole through the stake so there’s no head to come off.

Another fan of the Ruta Locura 9″ CF stakes.  4 years of use (so assume they are first gen) with zero issues.  Obviously they work less well in rocky soil, but I used them with my Duplex in Yosemite without a problem.  also work well if you can only get them 6″ in…no rule that they have to be inserted all the way to the head :)

+1 for the technique of doubling up the (Ti or needle) stakes.  I’ve done this multiple times and works great.

IMO, the smart way to go when soil type is unknown or varied within the trip is to carry a variety of types, carry extras, and use rocks/roots/branches as necessary.  Adaptability is the key.

I’ve had several of the Easton heads come off. Was able to epoxy them back on when I god back home. I’ve also bent a couple… those conditions might have broken a carbon stake. Sometimes when I know the soil will be mostly sand I bring snow stakes.

For a given width, a rounded stake will cut through the soil more easily than a V shaped stake, since the V shape catches the dirt while the rounded shape allows the dirt to move around it. It the same concept as aerodynamics – a rounded shape cuts thought the wind better than a square or indented shape.

So for a given a width, V stakes > flat stakes > rounded stakes, and then the holding power of all of those will increase as the length increases, but not that much because most of the torque on a stake is at the top. So a stake it pulled forward at the top, and if the top of the stake can cut through the soil, then the rest of the stake will likely follow because the leverage on it gets increasingly worse as you go down the stake.

Y stakes (e.g. MSR groundhog) are basically a V stake with an additional rib down the back. Assuming you are orienting V stakes properly, a Y stake won’t increase holding power but it does make for a much stronger stake. V stakes like the Vargo Ascent tend to bend easily, while Y stakes are much more resistant to bending.

I find Ti skewers quite resistant to breaking. Part of it is that they are pretty stuff (at least the 8g ones) but also titanium has some spring to it, so you can tell when you’re beating on it too hard before you break it, and if you do bend it, you can usually bend it back unlike aluminum.

So I like ti skewers as an all-around stake, but the holding power of V and Y stakes is much higher. I’ve been using the Vargo Ascents when I need more holding power, but the skinny neck on those is prone to breaking, and the numerous cutouts also bend easily, so I’m more interested now is the Vargo Crevice stakes when I need a lot of holding power, and then I use Vargo Ti Skewers for normal conditions.

if a stake has more surface area, there’ll be more friction holding it in place

bigger diameter stake is better

ribbed stakes have more surface area

ultralight shepard hook stakes are small diameter so have less surface area, more likely to pull out