Tell me about your poncho

https://backpackinglight.com/myog_mntn_poncho/

Cheers

I have the cuben Z-packs poncho/ground cover. It fits much better (i.e., less flappy) than any poncho I’ve ever worn and is easy to slip on/off without breaking stride; it’s ventilation is fantastic and I like the hood. I also have MLD cuben chaps that I’ve worn in rain at home to check out but haven’t tested in the field – they pair very well with the poncho.

@rcaffin Thanks Roger – forgot that DIY article. :)

@shawnb Any chance you can post a few pics? Is the zpacks poncho long enough to get away with just using their high gaiters and no chaps/rain pants?

I don’t have any pics to post but you can find plenty of pics and even video reviews with a web search I think. The gaiters (which I haven’t tried) seem to come up to a few inches below the knee. The poncho reaches just past my knee. Maybe doable depending on your height but if you want any overlap, it’d be really, really close at best.

The Search for the Holy Grail: Waterproof Breathable Rain Gear

I like ponchos. They provide good breathability ventilation and if you use a cord around your waist they do not flap around (to much) when it gets breeze. I found that having them at knee height does not affect my hiking in regular trails. Something I don’t like from ponchos is their hoods. If I’m hiking with the hood on it just gets too hot, so unless it is very cold I normally don’t use the hood at all. I do carry an umbrella as part of my regular kit. It provides great overhead protection when raining and when is very sunny. The umbrella alone is not good enough to provide coverage under wind driven rain, so that is when the poncho comes in and is used in combination with the umbrella for maximum protection and breathability  ventilation.

I find that most of the commercial tarp-ponchos on the market are on the short side when used in tarp mode. I just made my own hoodless tarp-poncho. It’s a bit longer (114″) than most commercial ones and does not have a hood.  Instead of the hood it has a small opening with a waterproof zipper. One of the advantages of the zipper is that I can use it to vent further (when possible). Also I can adjust how low the front goes by re-positioning my head along the zipper. If I’m hiking in easy / flat terrain I can lower the front a bit for better leg protection. On regular ponchos with a hood…. you don’t have that “adjustability”.

The other advantage of making your own is that you can use better materials for your application. I made my hoodless tarp-poncho out of silpoly 1.1oz PU4000 which has good (tested) aged HH(>3514). Unfortunately it also has a lower tear strength so you definitely need to reinforce your tieouts.

Edit:  Most lightweight ponchos are made of non-breathable waterproof fabrics but their designs allow them to ventilate well.  I have edited my choice of words on my original post.

I made a silnylon poncho a couple years ago mostly based on the Parcho pattern sold by Quest Outfitters, with a few of the features of Roger’s mountain poncho.  It does not ventilate as well as my old OR poncho, I think; if I made it again I might try snaps on the sides rather than a sewn seam.  But I do like having a full sleeve.  I may make some chaps to go with it eventually but so far have not really needed them, as I made the poncho about knee length or a little more.  It’s around 8oz.

If I made it shorter, I might want to use something for leg protection; but I think the advantage of a shorter poncho would be better ventilation, especially this style with the sewn sides.  I might eventually shorten mine, if the ventilation is a big enough problem.  We haven’t had enough rain to really have had enough use of it.  Guess I’ll need to make a trip up north someday if I want to put it through its paces.

When I hike in other climates I tend to take a frogg toggs UL jacket (and ft pants if needed), but in the Northeast I definitely prefer a poncho.

For most of my hiking (day hiking, and longer backpacking in the Adirondacks, NE and Ontario), I’ve used a 7ozish frogg toggs poncho. I like the simplicity of it, with snaps down the side and decent hood. I find that it fits over my backpack (used to be an Exodus, now a Kalais) and daypack just fine. It has survived three years of hiking through overgrown trails and circumnavigating thousands of downed trees (such as on the Northville-Placid Trail) without a rip or tear. The loose fit of the poncho seems to prevent this. I use one trekking pole while I hike, and do not feel that the poncho obstructs my view of the ground or feet. I have never felt clammy with it on and have hiked comfortably through three straight days of rain.

I’ve made a hoodless poncho/cape out of a light silnylon that I’ve used on a few hikes. It’s shaped like the Integral Designs sil-cape. It may replace the frogg toggs poncho if I take it on a longer hike one of these days and “bond” with it… I’ve also recently purchased a 20d packa, which I plan to take on an out-and-back in Pukaskwa next month. I’m sure I’ll get some rain and wind there and am looking forward to seeing how well it works. I’ll try to post a comparison between the three ponchos I’ve mentioned here when I get back.

Expanding on the “ponchos are too flappy” notion…have you considered a Packa?  In my experience it provide very poncho-like ventilation without all the flapping and fussing in wind and heavy rain,

Another Packa fan here.

@Gary, no love for the Norvan you’re so enamored with?

I had forgot I wrote a review of the ZPacks poncho/groundsheet a few years ago.

One of its advantages is it is much shorter than the typical poncho, and doesn’t billow around you. At the same time, your hiking shorts will get wet — I rarely wear long pants even in colder weather. But in cold, wind driven rain, wet and exposed hiking shorts make me miserably cold. The solution is a Cuben rain skirt, also from ZPacks.

A huge advantage of Cuben over other poncho fabrics is it is much less likely to catch on branches. A few years ago I had to descend a cat claw infested canyon during a light rain… bush whacking sans any kind of trail. This was the trip that really sold me on the ZPacks poncho.

If there is one disadvantage it is the lack of full arm coverage in cold rain if you use trekking poles. Since I don’t use trekking poles, it’s a non-issue for me. However, sometimes I will use a single pole, and alternately with each arm for periods of time solves the exposed arm issue.

Ed – there’s total love for the Norvan SL here. I’m just a type of person that keeps on tinkering with stuff and trying new things all the time. I’m testing out a few ponchos, a poncho/tarp, Norvan SL, the original white zPacks shell, Marmot Essence, a cagoule, and a DIY nylon shell as we speak. If you saw the gear closet, you’d probably freak. A lifetime hobby of sorts.

@ngatel thanks for the zpacks info. If you were to get a size twin, do you think it will cover the arms and legs more?

I prefer to have the option of using my poncho as a shelter so I stick with the traditional designs.  Also, during breaks, it’s nice to be able to lean up against a tree and pull my legs under it.

For quick overnighters when the forecast is favorable, or as my rain gear for when I’m bringing a separate shelter, I like my Go Lite poncho which is at or just below 8 oz not including guy lines or stakes.  I’d feel comfortable sleeping under it during a rainstorm but the margin of error is pretty small since I typically don’t bivy so I’d be forced to pitch it pretty low.  You can still find them used and I purchased mine here at BPL.  The quality of construction is good.

Chad’s thoughts.   

For longer trips where there’s the possibility of rain, I recently purchased a MLD Silnylon Pro Poncho that weighs in at 13 oz with stuff sack not including guy lines or stakes.  This poncho is longer so I get more coverage of my legs and it will be a more storm worthy shelter with its centenary design and extra length.  I’ve only recently purchased this poncho off of gear swap but after trying it out at home, I feel comfortable making these claims as I’ve used tarps of similar size before and am comfortable with its dimensions.

For the MLD Pro Poncho, I’ve found the claims to it having a superior hood design to be well founded.  It’s similar to the quality of Arteryx’s design and it moves well with my head when cinched down properly.  Also, I like how the hood can be rolled down and stowed when in shelter mode.

Will’s thoughts

I’m a fan of cuben fiber and have a couple shelters made from it, but I’ve always been a little leery of using that material as a poncho.  Ned brought his Zpacks Twin Sized Groundheet Poncho the the PNW GGG last year.  I had a chance to try it on, thought it was pretty comfortable, and would not hesitate to buy one.

I’ve never been bothered by wet legs and haven’t worried about it up to now.  I’ve considered purchasing MLD chaps and have one of Rod’s MYOG garbage bag skirts for now.  I’ve ordered some MLD eVent mitts but have yet to receive them.

Noaffiliationpurchasedeverythingwithmyownmoneyblahblahblah.

@ngatel thanks for the zpacks info. If you were to get a size twin, do you think it will cover the arms and legs more?

I don’t know. Shoot Joe @ zPacks an email. He is good about answering questions, and might even make something custom.

Here’s the thing from my point of view, having used poncho/tarps as rain gear and shelter for decades. As a shelter you often need a bivy, so you are looking at well over 16 ounces of gear using silnylon or similar fabrics. Plus you can’t keep the guylines permanently attached, they need to be removed when using it as a poncho, usually meaning mini-biners for even more unneeded weight. Lastly, in heavy rain, you have to remove your rain gear to set up your shelter. There is skill involved to set it up quickly and securely, but not a big issue with practice.

When cuben hit the market, I saw that I could have a separate poncho and shelter for less weight and no bivy needed. A poncho was never a compromise for weight savings by also using it as a shelter, but it was the most breathable rain gear, although poncho/tarps have too much extra material when used in poncho mode.

Here’s the best advantage, so to speak. When you have to head into a town for supplies, you will look like a homeless person in your cuben poncho, which will have that wrinkled look. My wife hates it when we go for day hikes and I wear my cuben poncho, because I look so down and out in it. Once we were in a town and she walked on the other side of the street, because she hates the look of it — her method of trying to get me to wear something more suitable for in-town wear. Most people will avoid you when you are attired in your cuben poncho, so you don’t have to answer a bunch of questions. Additionally, once in a while complete strangers will walk up to you and hand you a $10 or $20 bill :)

One other thing about the zPacks…

It is not as easy as a “normal” size poncho to put on. It is fine with my smaller packs, but with my larger McHale with about 60L of space used, it is not super easy to put the poncho on. Also, I am 5’11” and weigh 150 lbs, so I am probably skinnier than most people. If you are interested in the zPacks, which isn’t inexpensive, I would make a phone call to zPacks to get more information and might want to look at the twin size and ask if you can return it if it doesn’t fit per expectations.

“A huge advantage of Cuben over other poncho fabrics is it is much less likely to catch on branches.”

It seems much more likely that silnylon and other, more slippery, silicone coated fabrics would do this much better than cuben, which has more surface tension. It’s easy enough to see this.  Rub your hand over some cuben and rub your hand over some silnylon or silpoly, the latter will feel more “slippery”.  That’s because the surface energy of silicone is significantly lower than mylar.

Also, silicone coated, woven fabrics, are going to handle abrasion much better than cuben and it’s mylar film. With Silnylon and silpoly, you can re-coat the fabric with silicone, but with cuben the mylar can be tape patched, sure, but at some point will become too shredded or fuzzy, as to lose it’s beneficial properties.  Like Jen mentioned about her cuben tent, which btw is going to see less abrasion than a poncho.

I think cuben has it’s place, but ponchos or other clothing type systems is not one of them.  Tents and tarps is fairly good if you don’t mind the price.  This is why i sold my specially made cuben poncho-tarp.  I did buy a used MLD cuben solo mid, which i rather like, and plan to coat with silicone to avoid the fuzzy/hold water issue that Jen reported about her cuben tent.

Regarding Poncho’s:

I’m thinking of combining some “kite tyvek” with a DIY silicone treated, very breathable, uncoated 1.1 oz/yd2 nylon fabric, to be the front of a non hooded poncho.  The Tyvek would be the inner fabric and silicone treated 1.1 oz/yd2 nylon would be the outside.  The silicone treated nylon is to provide abrasion and tear resistance to the inner Tyvek, as well as break most of the initial force of the rain while not ever requiring adding more DWR.  The Tyvek is to provide a WPB membrane more air porous than most, while not ever requiring a DWR.

The back of the poncho, which goes over the pack, will be made with RBTR Silpoly.

Rather than have a hood, i plan to wear a large brimmed booney hat, with velcro sewn on, that i can attach either some EPIC fabric or similar combo as the above silicone treated nylon/Tyvek over most of the hat.  Also, the idea is to have the front of the poncho fairly short, not much below the waist.  Rain skirt + velcroed  on WR fabric to pants will take care lower.

I suspect it will easily beat and extremely so, the breathability of any current system hands down, through the combo of ventilated poncho design and more air porous WPB fabric combo.

Depending on whether or not i have the time or interest, i may post a thread in the MYOG section.

I have a couple of old nylon ponchos from EMS.  Had a neck zipper added for ease of putting them on.  They’re big enough to fit over a moderate sized pack.  Used one while whale watching a few weeks ago.

Not fancy, but they work.

I posted,

A huge advantage of Cuben over other poncho fabrics is it is much less likely to catch on branches.

Justin replied,

It seems much more likely that silnylon and other, more slippery, silicone coated fabrics would do this much better than cuben, which has more surface tension. It’s easy enough to see this. Rub your hand over some cuben and rub your hand over some silnylon or silpoly, the latter will feel more “slippery”. That’s because the surface energy of silicone is significantly lower than mylar.

Since I have actually, and extensively, used ponchos made from both materials, I can report that my real world experience is not what Justin assumes would happen. If you push an ocotillo or catclaw thorn (my real world environment) against Cuben and then silnylon, it easily penetrates the silnylon and requires much more force to penetrate Cuben. I have actually tested this at home with both materials using an ocotillo thorn from my landscaping, to compare it to what I observed on hikes.

I suspect that since nylon is woven, the sharp point penetrates space between the weave. Cuben is not woven, so the point must actually penetrate the material.

My experience also is silnylon drapes, like a fabric. Cuben is stiffer and doesn’t drape. Since it is stiffer, it is less likely to “fold” around a branch or where I hike “fold” around a branch that probably has thorns.

If someone has used both with different results we can discuss, as I am not a scientist, just a backpacker.

Tell me about your poncho

LOL… Well, it was the summer of ’63. We met after school… no, wait :)

Couldn’t resist…actually the only thing I have to add is that I have an Equinox poncho tarp, size long so it fits over your pack. I have the non-UL polyurethane coated version. My impression (formed just from comparing the poncho material to the silnylon tarptent I used to have) is that the polyurethane one seems like it would be better because it tends not to drape as closely and presumably would allow better ventilation. But even for my poncho I only have limited experience since it hardly rains here anyway.

Yeah, cuben ponchos are probably fairly good and last awhile if one lives in CA, hikes primarily in the desert, and the poncho rarely leaves the pack.

Meanwhile, for those of us who live and hike primarily at places that rain a lot–like the southeast and PNW, a simple, inexpensive silnylon or silpoly poncho is going to give you a lot more bang per buck.

Roger Caffin has written a few times here about using a silnylon poncho and how it’s very good at avoiding being snagged, ripped, because it’s slippery, has some give, etc.  Apparently Australia has some pretty bad arse brush, so one would assume he knows what he is talking about.

Cuben’s biggest weakness is abrasion resistance, thus it’s a poor choice for clothing type applications, as well as groundsheets.  Great for tarps and tents though.

This is well known, and fairly agreed upon.  Hence, cannot recommend a cuben poncho, when silnylon and silpoly will do just as well, at a fraction of the cost.

Cuben clothing etc is literally the most pointless, overpriced and inefficient material for same. Cuben was designed for one purpose–lightweight, high tensile strength/tear resistance, because it was designed for sails.  It’s pretty good at that (and tents/tarps), but because of the mylar film, it has definite other weaknesses.

Still not drinking the cuben poncho Kool-Aid.

Edit to add correction–i did very briefly drink the kool aid about cuben ponchos, as i bought a cuben poncho tarp specially made by Zpacks, but sold it pretty soon after, realizing that since i was partially buying it not just for backpacking, but also prepping–that i needed something that would last longer and hold up to abrasion better.

My experiences with cuben are in line with Nick’s.  I have used a cuben kilt for quite some time.  It’s stiff, light, and has a smooth surface.  As a result, it seems to glide right over and snags.  It also doesn’t cling to you when wet as silnylon can.  I think its much more suitable for a kilt.  I would think a poncho would be similar.  Now, if I was sliding on my butt, I would expect a lot of abrasion wear on my cuben kilt.  But there seems to be very little abrasion when you’re on your feet because it seems to glide over the snags.