Techniques for sleeping on the ground without a mat

If you can be warm with the 2.3R of an Uberlite, any number of excess clothes/packs/leaves should work for you.

2.3R sounds like a night of misery to me for all but the warmest conditions.

Monte, that Klymit pillow looks like a great multiuse item.  If my MYOG  foam pillow doesn’t work out, I’ll take a good look at it.

The stock back pad (2 oz) that came with my GG pack is billed as a sit pad as well, but I never found it very comfortable in that capacity.  So for most trips I would also pack along my old standby, a piece of Ridgerest (1.9 oz) folded in half.  But both of these pads added together  make a really poor bed.

To fix this, I cut larger piece of Ridgerest 14″x20″ (2.7 oz) to serve as a sit pad but also as emergency padding and insulation for my torso.  Folded in half, it fits neatly into the long side pocket of  my pack.

Since my last post here, it occurred to me that the piece of Ridgerest Solar I had on hand would make an even more comfortable emergency hip pad, so I cut it down (another 2.7 oz) to fit the back of my GG pack.

So basically, I’m dropping two lighter pieces of foam and adding two heavier ones,

Lining up the pillow, torso pad, and hip pad on a ground sheet in the backyard, I took a nap.

Not bad.

So what have I gained?  1.5 oz.

What have I lost?  The dread of popping my air pad.

I think it’s a fair trade.

Parallel to this, I playing with combining an X frame and a 48″ Ridgerest, a bomber set up that doesn’t need a backup.

Interesting – “2.3R sounds like a night of misery to me for all but the warmest conditions”-I think of myself as a bit of a cold wimp, but my prolite is the same. I’ve not used anything but those in all summer/fall Alaskan conditions – pouring rain for days, windy, freezing. Even in a winter cabin, which is warm until someone doesn’t get up to stoke the fire at 3am. Maybe I’m more acclimated to cool temps than I think! Or I just dress for it. I’m curious what pad you use Cameron?

If it is warm-sh I use the Women’s Neolite. Once nights drop below 40 I will need an X-Therm. My case and metabolism are extreme; I wake up very chilled taking afternoon naps at home in room temperature, but I also overheat and can lose 3 lbs in water during a not overheated yoga class. However, I swim in cold lakes, and am currently swimming in the 57 degree Pacific Ocean with just a 3mm wetsuit and cap. A hot bath afterwards is appreciated.

But I think many will be cold at 2.3R. Sleeping pad warmth is a common discussion on this forum. Anecdotally, it seems that Thermarest pads are less liable for leaks than some of the other major brands.

“Swimming to Antarctica” by Lynne Cox details her extraordinary efforts and freakish metabolism.

Some frameless packs have ample sized pad pockets that will fit multiple folding pieces of ccf,  therefore allowing you to get some decent length. Take this SMD Feather for example. It holds two 10.5″ X 19″ sections of Ridgerest and a same sized piece of 1/8″ foam all taped together with clear Scotch packaging tape ( I’m amazed at how well that stuff holds). But if I try to go any thicker with the padding the pocket won’t hold it. Or if it will hold more the pack doesn’t ride correctly. I’ve found every pad pocket has it’s maximum (optimum) capacity and you don’t want to go over it.

Edit to Add: Some framed packs such as the GG Mariposa and Gorilla also have pad pockets.

The pad unfolded measures 31.5″ X 19″  and the Ridgerest portion measures 21″ X 19″. That can go a long way in making the night livable in the event my inflatable pad springs a leak. Not to mention all of the other potential uses the pad has. Again, the Ridgerest with its ridges kept vertical on the pack far outperforms other foam pads, even the Thermarest Z Lite. Most people just aren’t down with cutting and taping sections of Ridgerest together and I guess I can understand why, but it works great as long as you replace the tape every so often. It also allows you to get a custom fit.

Overheard inside local health food supplement store-

Store employee to customer: “Are you cold man?”

Customer: “-Yeah, like all the time” (said while holding both hands crossed over chest, rubbing arms and slightly shaking)

Store employee: “Well it’s because you have no body fat”

Has anyone tried the combo of an xframe, ccf pad and a quilt? I’m worried it would be a cold setup but I wonder how it would work if you put your xframe under the ccf pad. I find a ridge rest to be warm enough down to just below freezing temps but I’m just not tuff enough to get a good nights sleep on them.

@Kyler

I’ve been messing around with a Ridrerest  SOLite short and an Xframe for the past few weeks. Haven’t gone on a trip with it, just testing things in my backyard.  The ccf over the Xframe worked better for me.  Just couldn’t get comfortable the other way around.  Though I’ve spent more nights on just a ccf than not in my outdoors life, it doesn’t work for me anymore.  So either I’ve gone soft, gotten spoiled, or gotten old.  I’ts probably a combination of the three.

Just got a new air pad in the mail today and compared it to the Xframe/SOLite.  The air pad wins on comfort, weight, and R-value.  The Xframe/SOLite wins on durability.  Since I now have a decent backup (see above) in case the air pad goes bad, I’m going to go with the air pad.  But I may regret it the first time it springs a leak.

I’m starting to think that sleeping pads are just like shoes.  You just have to try them out and see it they work for you.

@Monte

Pretty slick set up.  Didn’t know that packing tape could work that well.  I’ll have to add some to my repair kit to use in case I need to deploy my backup ccf sleep pads.

I like the comparison of shoes and mattress pads. I think you’re right, what works for one does not work for another. I recently had a chat with a family member who lives in northern California. We keep our house in Alaska at 65F day and 60 at night. I get up 2 hours before the daytime temperature kicks in on our thermostat, and it doesn’t feel cold to me at all. (It’s minus 25F this morning outside) She keeps her house at 72 day and 68 night. She gets extremely cold when camping, and if she were a backpacker, she’d need to carry more weight to add protection, not just an air pad. Maybe it is body fat that gives me extra comfort, and I shouldn’t try too hard to lose the extra before a bigger trip!

;)

Maybe it is body fat that gives me extra comfort, and I shouldn’t try too hard to lose the extra before a bigger trip!

I think your just fine Karen :) and wasn’t an indication of anyones current or future health. What I was referring to was that everybody is different. Just like you were saying…”what works for one does not work for another.” That individual in this case would tell everyone that they need to sleep in a zero degree mummy bag with 1″ of Zote foam and an insulated pad in the 40’s. On the other hand you’d get another argument that just 1/8″ Zote and an Uberlite is the only way to go down into the low 20’s. I’m kind of right in the middle’ish.

This thread has been pretty awesome. That guy who made foam insulation into a jacket, what a great idea! I had to do that once as a field solution to having gotten wet in the rain (my poncho was shredded in the brush and no longer functional) and my clothes not being dry in the morning. It was warmer than not wearing it.

In the ’90’s I  read about a guy that took foam (closed cell) clothing to the extreme.  He had sewn special pockets into his pants & hiking shirt–to hold the foam pieces in place.  This allowed him to adjust the amount of foam used (depending on activities and temperature)–but was somewhat complicated with the dozen or so individual pieces.

Using only two pieces  is not as warm–but works well for multi-use….and in keeping with the ‘KISS’ adage.    YMMV

Based on camping experiences from my early 20s, about 6-9 oz of your favorite hard alcohol, or half that in Everclear (multi-use stove fuel) and you can sleep just fine on lumpy gravel.

Haha, I wish the flask of rye whiskey I bring with me helped my 40 year old back as well as it might have in my 20s.

I don’t know about you but if I get drunk enough to fall asleep I will wake up a few hours later and not be able to sleep at all. And then I’ll feel pretty terrible the next day.

The trick is to not get drunk, just “warm”. Still doesn’t really help the back though!